Re: Coronavirus
 

This is not something that we need to hear right now. The whole issue surrounding transmission rates and hospitalizations and pressure on healthcare has been about getting a high vaccination rate amongst people. We are still a way off it seems and they are blaming the young party crowd and antivaxers yet if it appears we all have to wear masks even after 2 shots then i can see that people will continue to refrain from getting it as they don't see a positive. We are heading nowhere if we have to continue mask wearing and getting vaccinated and i don't see this news helping to sway the non believers or the ones on the fence.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But that is EXACTLY what everyone needs to hear!

No-one with any knowledge has ever said that a fully vaccinated person will never catch covid.

What is said over and over again is that a fully vaccinated person can catch covid, and there are plenty of examples around the world, BUT in general they will get a much milder case and usually nor]t even require hospital care le alone going into ICU.

Several countries are seriously considering that in fact we may well need annual booster shots, and that a 3rd jab might even be needed before the end of this year.

This new Delta variant is turning everything on its head though as it is a) much more virulent nd b) is much more serious in an unvaccinated person.

Dr Teresa Tam and other experts said in Ottawa today that Canada is on the verge of the 4th wave of covid, largely because of the Delta variant.

There haven been mutterings by virologists and financiers recently that BC might not be able to go to the next step in regaining normality, planned for September 7th.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But if jabs equals freedoms or relaxed rules or whatever then its a good carrot to dangle. The much talked about vax passport is something that fully vaxxed people were applauding so they could get on with their life and the unvaxxed could do one. Bojo has even mentioned the idea of vax passports for nightclub entry in England yet this is surely a mute point if all the double jabbed youngsters are still spreading it. They have just opened things up despite alarming numbers of cases and will be allowing fully vaxxed US visitors in without quarantine in near future. If BC is in trouble god help England.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's truly bizarre that UK nightclubs are fully open two months in advance of the proposed vax passport. Totally illogical.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Moot, ffs.

There's no need of a carrot. Just have companies follow Disney and WalMart in making vaccination a requirement of employment.

Re: Coronavirus
 

We'll put you down for "stick" then. :)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes. "I want people to be able to catch covid and charge their treatment to the public purse" is a bullshit position akin to "I want people to be able to drive drunk and clobber pedestrians". The world has no room for such idiocy.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Totally agree.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Conversely what happens if Delta continues to run rife and/or further variants happen because everyone including the vaccinated are passing on the virus without a care in the world simply because initially it's not harming them? The jabs are not going to appear the answer by then and that's even worse.

The carrot to dangle is to say look how many people have not died or been hospitalised since people have been getting jabs.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think we should also not forget that a year ago it was going to "take at least a year" to produce vaccines and then roll-out difficulties would prolong the wait, yet here we are with many of us living in countries where most are already fully vaccinated.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Canada has certainly done well on vaccination, compared to say Australia. I don't think anywhere is out of the woods yet. China is now declaring Delta outbreaks and major lockdowns, and they were very well vaccinated.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But not as busy as they'd like, it seems.
Clubbers shun reopened venues in England amid confusion over Covid safety

Re: Coronavirus
 

Some interesting commentary on this week's indie-Sage (UK Coronavirus scientists) presentation (on YT). Very little has been done in the UK on air ventilation (schools, etc) and they made the point that we would not tolerate dirty or infectious water, so we should not be tolerating infectious air. New York classrooms have a "air quality" rating system which the public can check ascertain Covid compliance, and the iSage group has been advocating this for months and months. What's the situation in Canadian provinces, have any introduced specific air filteration systems and or reporting for Covid. Is it a discussed issue?

Re: Coronavirus
 

That's something that will no doubt be the subject of much debate and controversy. There have been suggestions that those employed but not jabbed could work from home in some cases but there still leaves a gap where those that are unable to get vaccinated for whatever reason would then be prevented from earning a wage and are they then going to claim government handouts because they have been forced to quit work?
(I am not talking about the "anti vax" brigade or conspiracy nuts here.)
Here in BC they are talking about the young "party crowd" who are lagging behind on vaccinations so they need something to wake them up and get them on board. Many have been either in and out of employment due to the virus or lost their jobs and are claiming benefits, others just don't give a sh#t and despite the news stories about younger people being at risk and young people who have died or been hospitalized they are still primarily in the low risk category often with mild symptoms and not requiring hospital treatment. Is there any chance that our liberal government will get behind a "no jab no job" campaign?
Currently with the latest data as i was originally quoting it doesn't seem to matter if you are double jabbed you can still be a risk so even the double jabbed who have a job are still required to wear a mask and follow all the protocols. Obviously the unvaccinated could potentially be jobless but following the same protocols too. To many of us this has always been about getting back to some normality by following the rules and waiting for the day they are relaxed yet it appears these relaxed rules are often quickly reinstated when cases climb and people are getting restless.
This clip from a UK media source says it all:
YOUNG adults will be offered cinema tickets, taxi tides and fast food in return for getting their Covid jabs, according to reports.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But isn't that carrot already being dangled? Low rates of hospital admissions, low new deaths, currently 47 in hospital and 16 in ICU for the entire province of 5 million people in BC. Yet we still have an issue with vaccination rates for the young. Clearly it's not enough and most of that age will not have anyone they know who has suffered, some will of course, but at that age we are invincible aren't we?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes. If someone can't have a vaccination and so cannot work, they have a disability and so should be eligible for the same pittance as someone who cannot work due to having MS or cystic fibrosis or whatever other condition.

Re: Coronavirus
 

:banghead:
Not necessarily.

It would really depend on the health issues behind the non-vaccination recommendation. I have been advised not to have the vaccination for several health reasons - but I am NOT considered disabled.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Have you not been vaccinated yet ?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well DUH. As stated in my post, I have been advised by my medical team not to have the vaccination at this time, though possibly at some point in the future; they have yet to ascertain whether the risks outweigh the potential value. When you have a medical team of specialists telling you it puts you at too much risk at this time, you tend to listen.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Some auto-immune disorders will prevent people from being able to get vaccines, however they are not disabled, and may have very good careers as well, so perplexing anyone would think not being able to vaccinate to a health issue somehow means they are disabled.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Interesting latest info from local news source here and i quote:
The most recent geographical data from the BC CDC shows the daily infection case rate in parts of Kelowna has skyrocketed to levels only seen in the worst hit parts of Surrey during the peak of the third wave this spring.

Downtown Kelowna has been the worst hit, with an average daily infection rate of 40 cases per 100,000 between July 23 and July 29. This works out to more than 100 new infections over that week period in Downtown Kelowna alone.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If a person cannot work through a medical condition then they have a disability. If employers require covid vaccinations, correctly in my view, then they bestow a disability upon the people who cannot have vaccinations.

Re: Coronavirus
 

if a condition prevents someone from taking part in day to day activities then they have a disability. Disabilities can be permanent or temporary, if COVID means you can't leave the house, go to the shops, go to work, interact with people, then you have a disability.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Just because someone is unable to receive the vaccine it doesn't mean they have a medical condition that precludes working (in some capacity); under Ontario rules they would not be classed as having a disability.

Re: Coronavirus
 

A health condition that precludes vaccination doesn't make somebody physically incapable of leaving the house. I can leave the house, I could go to the shops, I could go to work (if I had a job), I could interact with peope - vaccinated or not! I'm not disabled just because I am unable to be vaccinated at this time.

Good luck to our esteemed members if they try to put in a claim for ODSP, based on their inability to be vaccinated... https://www.cleo.on.ca/en/publicatio...-my-disability

Re: Coronavirus
 

[QUOTE=printer;13035773]That's something that will no doubt be the subject of much debate and controversy. There have been suggestions that those employed but not jabbed could work from home in some cases but there still leaves a gap where those that are unable to get vaccinated for whatever reason would then be prevented from earning a wage and are they then going to claim government handouts because they have been forced to quit work?[/QUOTE]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 13035778)

Yes. If someone can't have a vaccination and so cannot work, they have a disability and so should be eligible for the same pittance as someone who cannot work due to having MS or cystic fibrosis or whatever other condition.

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DBD to me seemed to be suggesting people who have a health condition that prevents them from getting a vaccine, who are presently working and doing their day to day activities just fine, should lose their jobs and thus income over it and sent into poverty.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not to mention in many provinces disability is needs based. BC is payer of last resort, wont get disability easily here, first you need to be eligible for general assistance, which means basically being destitute, have credit, savings, investments, property that exceeds the asset limits your going to need to exhaust all those first.

Not to mention they would probably be homeless as housing portion of assistance in BC is a horrendously low $375/month and aside from BC Housing units, there is essentially nowhere in BC you can obtain housing for $375/month, and BC housing has a 7-10 year wait average from time of application to getting a unit.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If the rule is that to go to work one must be vaccinated then people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons should be entitled to disability payments; "not healthy, can't work" is as good a definition of disability as any.

Re: Coronavirus
 

[QUOTE=Jsmth321;13036046]Yes, that's right. People should not be "working and doing their day to day activities just fine" at the risk of other people's health. They should be vaccinated. If they cannot be vaccinated then they are disabled, just like someone who cannot work through autism or being in an iron lung or whatever.

Re: Coronavirus
 

[QUOTE=dbd33;13036124]
Then you would classify my husband as disabled as he cannot get the vaccine due to his severe reaction to all flu vaccines as well as many other vaccines. He still goes out daily, interacts with people, has had COVID19 twice, once with hospitalization, but he wears a mask and takes precautions not to get reinfected. I don't agree that not being able to work if an employer mandates that all employees must be vaccinated to retain their job makes them disabled.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Quote cock-ups alert!

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not according to Ontario.

"To get income support from ODSP, most people must meet the ODSP definition of a "person with a disability".

This means that an approved health professional, such as a doctor, confirms that:

• you have a physical or mental health problem that is expected to last a year or more, and
• your health problem limits your ability to work, look after yourself, or do daily activities at home or in the community.

The law also says that your health problem must be substantial and it must limit your abilities in a substantial way."

Re: Coronavirus
 

It was Dbd that made the comment, the quote section appears to have gone awry :)

I agree with you wholeheartedly - it doesn't make them disabled, it makes them unemployed! :)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Pox on the quote function!

Re: Coronavirus
 

What is odd, when I posted last night it didn't look like that on my end.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yup it was post 4096 that did the damage. I saw it early this morning but due to a recent update I can’t edit embolden text to regular font.

Re: Coronavirus
 

To be clear, I'm not arguing that the Ontario government currently considers unvaccinated people to have a disability. I'm saying that, if firms follow in the path of Disney et al in defining "fit to work" as including being vaccinated then the way to deal with people who can't be vaccinated is to treat them as being disabled. They would, in fact be disabled/handicapped/differently abled in not being able to pursue their work for medical reasons.

I am, of course, aware that there's not much in the way of support for the disabled in Canada but that's an unrelated issue.

Re: Coronavirus
 

In the US anyhow even the companies who are mandating vaccines have to provide reasonable accommodations to those who cannot receive the vaccine due to disability, health, closely held religious beliefs.

An employer would need to show that accommodations would pose an undue hardship, meaning a significant difficulty or expense.

The government set a rather high threshold for under hardship, it's a difficult one to meet.

So these companies just can't layoff or fire employees who have a protected reason for not getting the vaccine, they have provide reasonable accommodations or prove significant difficulty or expense to provide accommodations.

Re: Coronavirus
 

There is no way that "religious belief" should be a factor in a person's life and certainly not a corporation's. Still, the easy way to meet these requirements is just to pay the few people involved to stay at home and do nothing much. Their careers will be nothing much but, hey ho, that's the way these things go; they'll be on the heap with the people who believe in work/life balance.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not just Disney and WalMart! The band, Offspring, have fired their drummer for not being vaccinated.