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Gozit Jul 3rd 2020 8:22 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 12876079)
But there's the difference. There are things needed from shopping, just like you could be run over by a bus crossing the street if there's something needed on the other side. How vital is that trip?

I can guarantee there is absolutely nothing necessary that you need from the mall. That is all purely indulgent shopping. Essentials can be picked up from groceries/pharmacies.

To answer the question of why i'm going to the mall? Because it's open and i'm comfortable with the risk. Yes I did wear a mask while there. But the mall is full of people indoors and so is the airport. What is the increased risk vector? No one has answered that yet.

Gozit Jul 3rd 2020 8:24 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12876076)
The shopping mall is in Canada so that's irrelevant.

Why? We all know that COVID knows no borders. So the risk vector of travelling somewhere within Canada should be the same as travelling somewhere outside of Canada. 14 day isolation should not be arbitrarily required for a return from ALL countries. I can drive to Toronto right now with absolutely 0 restrictions, and have a higher probability of being exposed to COVID there, yet I don't have to self isolate on return to my small town where I live. But if I get on a plane and go somewhere that has virtually no COVID I still have to self isolate. It makes no sense.

Shard Jul 3rd 2020 8:28 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 12876086)
I can guarantee there is absolutely nothing necessary that you need from the mall. That is all purely indulgent shopping. Essentials can be picked up from groceries/pharmacies.

To answer the question of why i'm going to the mall? Because it's open and i'm comfortable with the risk. Yes I did wear a mask while there. But the mall is full of people indoors and so is the airport. What is the increased risk vector? No one has answered that yet.

Increased risk vector? Imagine a confined metal tube containing several hundred fellow humans in close proximity all breathing the same air for several hours. Spot the difference.

Stumpylegs Jul 3rd 2020 8:29 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 12876023)
I don't see any more of a risk taking a holiday to a country with lower COVID cases/rate of transmission then Canada. But if I were to go the government would have to pay a month of CERB since I wouldn't be able to work due to the mandatory quarantine. So there's that.

I don't like being at home for long periods though, so I won't be travelling until that requirement is lifted. It is a little upsetting though given that many places are opening to Canadians. The EU did say it expected countries to which it has opened borders to reciprocate for EU citizens.

I was hoping they would announce 'safe countries' to travel to. Maybe after 31 August.


Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 12876059)
"easier" doesn't go together with how much of an actual risk it poses though.

Absolutely I would have no problem self isolating if I was mad enough to travel to or transit parts of US, UK, Brazil, etc. But to travel to my tiny Malta with 39 cases, 9 deaths, no community transmission? I should not have to self isolate on my return if not experiencing symptoms.

Other countries are relaxing this rule and have the same level of COVID-19 as us, why aren't we doing the same? I think you are right Jsmth, it is just 'easier' for the government...which unfortunately isn't that great of an excuse. But there isn't much you can do.

Aside from the aforementioned risk of catching it in the airport etc. (and whilst I appreciate you could catch it in the mall, quarantining post mall isn't practicable, quarantining post international travel is).

Its a double edged sword, you would quite happily travel to countries with a lower rate of infection than you, but countries with a lower rate of infection than you- possibly don't want you because they have a lower rate of infection. NZ probably wants no one now (definitely don't want us Brits after the last pair that went over there!) in the same way you wouldn't want someone from those high infection rate countries coming round your neighbourhood without quarantine.

Not to mention do you have faith in other countries reporting figures? todays rate of infection in Canada and the UK is remarkably similar (253 in 37million versus 519 in 68 million) yet the UK is handling the whole thing awfully - either the figures aren't right, the wild differences in strategy isn't that effective, or handling the virus has little to do with the actual figures.





BristolUK Jul 3rd 2020 8:35 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 12876086)
I can guarantee there is absolutely nothing necessary that you need from the mall. That is all purely indulgent shopping. Essentials can be picked up from groceries/pharmaciest.

Don't you have grocery and pharmacy stores in the mall where you are? As well as essential stuff for communication/internet and clothing it's quite good to have them all close together to avoid multiple trips. ;)

dbd33 Jul 3rd 2020 8:35 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 12876086)

To answer the question of why i'm going to the mall? Because it's open and i'm comfortable with the risk. Yes I did wear a mask while there. But the mall is full of people indoors and so is the airport. What is the increased risk vector? No one has answered that yet.

It wasn't a disease related question but a general one. I haven't been into a shopping mall since the 1980s and so I wondered why other people go to one.

Shard Jul 3rd 2020 8:38 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Stumpylegs (Post 12876095)
Not to mention do you have faith in other countries reporting figures? todays rate of infection in Canada and the UK is remarkably similar (253 in 37million versus 519 in 68 million) yet the UK is handling the whole thing awfully - either the figures aren't right, the wild differences in strategy isn't that effective, or handling the virus has little to do with the actual figures.

The infection level is hard to compare, because of different testing regimes. On the other hand the death rate is a bit more, shall we say, final...and correlates to the infection level. On this basis, Canada is doing much better at virus control that the UK.

Canada 230 deaths per million
UK 650 deaths per million

Gozit Jul 3rd 2020 8:38 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12876092)
Increased risk vector? Imagine a confined metal tube containing several hundred fellow humans in close proximity all breathing the same air for several hours. Spot the difference.

You can get on a plane and go across Canada and be in a metal tube for just as long as it takes to get to London and you still don't have to self isolate in all provinces. The arbitrary line in the sand is drawn at leaving the country and that is the frustrating part. If it were done purely on facts and science, you'd have to self isolate upon returning to Ontario from Quebec, but not from the Marshall Islands (no confirmed COVID but the country does have a COVID-19 response in place.)

Gozit Jul 3rd 2020 8:40 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 12876099)
Don't you have grocery and pharmacy stores in the mall where you are? As well as essential stuff for communication/internet and clothing it's quite good to have them all close together to avoid multiple trips. ;)

We do, but shopping malls were closed until a few weeks ago and people survived by going to the ones that weren't in malls. That is a fair point though.


Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 12876101)
It wasn't a disease related question but a general one. I haven't been into a shopping mall since the 1980s and so I wondered why other people go to one.

Ah. Fair enough. I really only go when I have a specific need that can't be accomplished by online shopping. In that case it was the apple store to get a phone repaired, and only because I didn't want to call in (I hate call centres) and wait for the phone to be shipped off, etc. Wanted it done that day.

Shard Jul 3rd 2020 8:55 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 12876106)
You can get on a plane and go across Canada and be in a metal tube for just as long as it takes to get to London and you still don't have to self isolate in all provinces. The arbitrary line in the sand is drawn at leaving the country and that is the frustrating part. If it were done purely on facts and science, you'd have to self isolate upon returning to Ontario from Quebec, but not from the Marshall Islands (no confirmed COVID but the country does have a COVID-19 response in place.)

The whole point of having a quarantine is to errect a barrier between what is deemed the outside of a defined inside. In this case, Canada is "inside". So your examples of Canadian shopping malls and Canadian flights are totally irrelevant. It may well be that the risk is low if coming from somewhere like Malta, but it's not zero, and therefore there remains a rationale to require quarantine.

Jerseygirl Jul 3rd 2020 9:06 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 12876068)
I could also catch it at the shopping mall (which are now open) and I don't self isolate when I come back from there.

I agree with Shard. You are sitting very close to someone for hours and hours on a plane. You have no idea where any of the other passengers have been. Masks will be removed when eating and drinking. Some will not wear masks for health reasons. IMO you cannot begin to compare walking around a mall to sitting in a plane for hours and hours. My daughter was sat near someone who died of COVID when she came back from the UK in March.

Stumpylegs Jul 3rd 2020 10:43 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12876104)
The infection level is hard to compare, because of different testing regimes. On the other hand the death rate is a bit more, shall we say, final...and correlates to the infection level. On this basis, Canada is doing much better at virus control that the UK.

Canada 230 deaths per million
UK 650 deaths per million

That's total deaths not new deaths though, it doesn't give a picture of how safe a country is currently - Brazil would look only slightly higher risk than Canada using total deaths. Think to make the call on whether a country is low or high risk you've got to look at either daily, weekly or monthly totals (of infection or deaths, I think both have their merits) for the recent past to see what risk that country still presents.

I think I may have said this before but I think death totals are as skewable if not more skewable as they are subjective. trouble is I know at the start Britain was over egging its death totals and do wonder if its under egging them now.

Working pretty closely with this (maintain a fleet of private ambulances that collect the deceased from places outside of hospitals) in mid to late march when everyone was a lot more concerned, the UK didn't have enough tests going round, they wouldn't waste a test on the deceased (in my area at least). So if anyone had rang nhs direct, or a friend or family member had reported they had suffered from covid like symptoms it was a case of recording the cause of death as presumed covid. Whether they had covid or not. (this then meant quarantine of the vehicle until deep cleans had took place etcl

For those deaths of the terminally Ill who have cancer, water infections and covid - what is the cause of death recorded as now (I honestly don't know).

Covid ripping through a large hospice or nursing home - killing 15% of the population. tragic as it may be, could throw a countries Death toll out of whack for weeks even if outside of that setting the country is having very few positive cases.

​​​​​​

dave_j Jul 3rd 2020 11:52 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
I think many people are too busy to consider how this virus got going.
Once upon a time there was one C19 victim, just one, that's right, just one.
Today, the number infected bears witness to just how virulent this virus is, so take notice.
It's insanity to do anything but realise that the 2M plus currently infected in the US won't expand to become 200M plus, and that no matter how much you might try to dampen the extent of the infection it'll take anyone who lets it, and that means in all countries, even those who think they're doing well.

Jsmth321 Jul 4th 2020 12:26 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by dave_j (Post 12876193)
I think many people are too busy to consider how this virus got going.
Once upon a time there was one C19 victim, just one, that's right, just one.
Today, the number infected bears witness to just how virulent this virus is, so take notice.
It's insanity to do anything but realise that the 2M plus currently infected in the US won't expand to become 200M plus, and that no matter how much you might try to dampen the extent of the infection it'll take anyone who lets it, and that means in all countries, even those who think they're doing well.

And seems the virus is mutating and becoming more infectious, which in part explains why the US is such a mess now, the predominate strain there is apparently 3 to 9 times more infectious than the earlier strain a couple months ago.

And it may keep mutating making it more and more infectious or mutate to become deadlier, this thing is tricky, and apparently the part of the virus that has mutated is what they were targeting in vaccines so who knows with this new mutation the vaccine work on the older strain may not be viable now, possible there may never be a vaccine for it if it can mutate this quickly.

Are the people who were infected early in the year with one strain immune to the mutated strain even?


Shard Jul 4th 2020 9:26 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Stumpylegs (Post 12876170)
That's total deaths not new deaths though, it doesn't give a picture of how safe a country is currently - Brazil would look only slightly higher risk than Canada using total deaths. Think to make the call on whether a country is low or high risk you've got to look at either daily, weekly or monthly totals (of infection or deaths, I think both have their merits) for the recent past to see what risk that country still presents.

I think I may have said this before but I think death totals are as skewable if not more skewable as they are subjective. trouble is I know at the start Britain was over egging its death totals and do wonder if its under egging them now.

Working pretty closely with this (maintain a fleet of private ambulances that collect the deceased from places outside of hospitals) in mid to late march when everyone was a lot more concerned, the UK didn't have enough tests going round, they wouldn't waste a test on the deceased (in my area at least). So if anyone had rang nhs direct, or a friend or family member had reported they had suffered from covid like symptoms it was a case of recording the cause of death as presumed covid. Whether they had covid or not. (this then meant quarantine of the vehicle until deep cleans had took place etcl

For those deaths of the terminally Ill who have cancer, water infections and covid - what is the cause of death recorded as now (I honestly don't know).

Covid ripping through a large hospice or nursing home - killing 15% of the population. tragic as it llmay be, could throw a countries Death toll out of whack for weeks even if outside of that setting the country is having very few positive cases.

​​​​​​

That's true, the death figures are historic. Without an intensive testing regime it's hard to know the real-time level of infection. Although hospital admissions/tested and associated growth rates is a lagging indicator.

Siouxie Jul 4th 2020 4:18 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12876303)
That's true, the death figures are historic. Without an intensive testing regime it's hard to know the real-time level of infection. Although hospital admissions/tested and associated growth rates is a lagging indicator.

There's information available if you dig through - updated daily/weekly - it might help :) https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...h-data.html#a1

Gozit Jul 6th 2020 4:48 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl (Post 12876127)
I agree with Shard. You are sitting very close to someone for hours and hours on a plane. You have no idea where any of the other passengers have been. Masks will be removed when eating and drinking. Some will not wear masks for health reasons. IMO you cannot begin to compare walking around a mall to sitting in a plane for hours and hours. My daughter was sat near someone who died of COVID when she came back from the UK in March.

Ok, so then someone flying from Vancouver to Toronto should be required to self isolate but they aren't, the line in the sand is drawn at travelling outside the country and that's where it is arbitrary.

Gozit Jul 6th 2020 4:50 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12876120)
The whole point of having a quarantine is to errect a barrier between what is deemed the outside of a defined inside. In this case, Canada is "inside". So your examples of Canadian shopping malls and Canadian flights are totally irrelevant. It may well be that the risk is low if coming from somewhere like Malta, but it's not zero, and therefore there remains a rationale to require quarantine.

And that's where we disagree. I (and my MP) don't agree there is a rationale for quarantine from all countries. Government is just taking a lazy approach, no one is really going to change my mind on that. If the risk is low, then it shouldn't be required.

At some point we have to go back to living our lives and leave it to personal choice whether people accept the risk of being infected or give them the supports and choice to stay isolated if that is what they feel is best for them.

BristolUK Jul 6th 2020 5:03 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 12877437)
Ok, so then someone flying from Vancouver to Toronto should be required to self isolate but they aren't, the line in the sand is drawn at travelling outside the country and that's where it is arbitrary.

That sounds quite specific actually. While its possible for the provinces to all do their own thing, they are considering advice and recommendations from pretty much the same sources and Canada does have a certain amount of control within its border.

Current Covid-19 practices between Vancouver and Toronto are more closely related and more in line with Canada generally than, say, between Canada and Mexico/Brazil/UK etc

Canada cannot influence how other countries do things, so there are different requirements for those travelling to Canada from other countries.

Jerseygirl Jul 6th 2020 5:07 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 12877437)
Ok, so then someone flying from Vancouver to Toronto should be required to self isolate but they aren't, the line in the sand is drawn at travelling outside the country and that's where it is arbitrary.

why would someone travelling internally need to self isolate...unless there was a large spike in numbers, as in Florida? :confused:

Pulaski Jul 6th 2020 5:10 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 12877440)
And that's where we disagree. I (and my MP) don't agree there is a rationale for quarantine from all countries. Government is just taking a lazy approach, no one is really going to change my mind on that. If the risk is low, then it shouldn't be required. ....

At some point last year there were only a few hundred known cases, all of them in China, then in the following weeks almost every country around the world had one person enter carrying the disease, and that person, or another person who entered soon after and carrying the disease, spread that disease to a second person, and a third, and then the disease got passed on to hundreds of other people in most countries (as of today there are 169 countries with more than 200 cases, and another eleven countries with 100-199 cases). From there things has further spiralled towards crisis in many countries, as there are now 21 countries with over 100,000 cases, including Canada and if you look at the list of countries impacted, it is almost certain that many of the countries with 10,000-99,000 cases have woefully inadequate testing. If you live in a country where there have been over 100,000 cases, under these circumstances (that it only took one person and a few months to lead to the infection of 100,000+ people), you could only come to the conclusion that there is a "low risk", if you are either [1] ignorant of the facts and are in denial, or [2] are an idiot. :unsure:

.... At some point we have to go back to living our lives and leave it to personal choice whether people accept the risk of being infected or give them the supports and choice to stay isolated if that is what they feel is best for them.
That point of view entirely ignores the fact that you "getting back to living" runs the risk of passing the disease to others, including your family, and others who may be older and/or less able to fight the infections successfully. This disease is a problem for society, and we can only fight it successfuly if we all fight it together - to wit Florida and Texas, where even a small percentage of idiots has put the entire community on the track to a crisis! :eek:

Pulaski Jul 6th 2020 5:14 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl (Post 12877446)
Why would someone travelling internally need to self isolate ....?

Why would someone be travelling anywhere if there isn't a need to do so? :confused: (Where "need" includes for work if you are unable to WFH, for medical treatment, and to obtain food, etc.)

Most days we don't leave our own property and the only "travelling" the three of us (incl my wife and daughter) do most weeks is me making one trip to buy groceries.

Jerseygirl Jul 6th 2020 5:25 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 12877448)
Why would someone be travelling anywhere if there isn't a need to do so? :confused: (Where "need" includes for work if you are unable to WFH, for medical treatment, and to obtain food, etc.)

Most days we don't leave our own property and the only "travelling" the three of us (incl my wife and daughter) do most weeks is me making one trip to buy groceries.


well yes...there is that. :nod: We are like you...we are staying home...if we do go out we mask up. Problem is the young folk...they think they are invincible and are eager to get on with their lives.

BristolUK Jul 6th 2020 5:34 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 12877447)
At some point last year there were only a few hundred known cases, all of them in China, then in the following weeks almost every country around the world had one person enter carrying the disease, and that person, or another person who entered soon after and carrying the disease, spread that disease to a second person, and a third, and then the disease got passed on to hundreds of other people..

To put this on a smaller scale for most of the last few months, the Atlantic provinces have restricted travel across borders. There were a few exceptions.

Over 90& of cases in NB were travel related; the traveller themselves or close contact of the traveller. It was so well controlled that at one point we had just a couple of new cases in a month and only about 130 cases altogether with no deaths.

Then one individual went deep into Quebec, where cases were common, lied about his reasons and, so, didn't self isolate upon return. That person has been linked with around 30 cases since, increasing the total cases, singlehandedly by 25%. And two died. From the actions of one person.

Last week, the Atlantic provinces decided to open up to each other with no restrictions, but not with Quebec.

PEI had apparently gone months without new cases. It's now known that before borders opened up, a resident of PEI went to NS to meet someone who had arrived from the USA. It sounds like the required quarantining wasn't done. The American has tested positive, so has the PEI resident who came for the meeting and four others in PEI too, all from that one person in NS.

How many others will soon test positive in NS from the same one and on PEI from the same few?

And this is with 'closed' borders. :ohmy:

BristolUK Jul 6th 2020 5:42 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl (Post 12877453)
well yes...there is that. :nod: We are like you...we are staying home...if we do go out we mask up. Problem is the young folk...they think they are invincible and are eager to get on with their lives.

Despite all these figures that A) the young are being adversely affected by it after all and B) mounting evidence that 'recovery' isn't the end of illness, with reports of blood clotting, strokes etc afflicting those who were thought to have recovered.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...d-symptoms-who

Gozit Jul 6th 2020 5:53 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl (Post 12877453)
well yes...there is that. :nod: We are like you...we are staying home...if we do go out we mask up. Problem is the young folk...they think they are invincible and are eager to get on with their lives.

The government isn't giving off messaging that they want everyone to stay home, what with restaurant patios etc open, so i've been doing what I want where it's open. This is where it should come down to everyone's personal comfort level. If you are not comfortable going out / returning to work in the office, etc no one should force you to do so.

Likewise, no one should force me to do something because it makes them more comfortable.

You can turn the "selfish young people" argument around and say that it is selfish for the more vulnerable to ask us to give up some of our youngest, healthiest years (which do go by quickly) to protect them, when they already had the chance to be a 20-something year old. If this goes on for much longer we will miss out on a significant portion of that and we won't get it back.

To turn the argument back to travel, I suppose I can go where I want, and either agree to self isolate upon return, or stay in my destination until the requirement is lifted. (Or go elsewhere.)

The irony of it is, as a self employed person the government would pay me CERB for that 14 day isolation period due to not being able to work due to COVID.

Jsmth321 Jul 6th 2020 5:57 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
All it takes is 1 person, at 1 birthday party and boom 20+ infected.
All it takes is 1 person who even knew they had COVID but felt fine to attend 1 gathering, and boom, several more cases and a death.

Both of the above are real world examples.

Kind of hasn't been discussed much about how the virus appears to have mutated to become more infectious and this mutated strain is now the predominant one in the US, may explain in part why its spreading even quicker now. 3-9 times more infectious, and could very well mutate again to cause more serious illness as well, while its mutating to become more infectious, doesn't appear yet to be causing more serious illness.

This mutated strain has been linked to Europe, and now out of control in the US.

Also brings up the issue of, the longer it can spread through society the more chances it has to mutate, and it could very well mutate to become more deadly.

Oh and the part of the virus that mutated to become more infectious, apparently is the part of the virus vaccine programs are targeting with their vaccine, and the vaccine programs are working with the older, less infectious virus, and they do not know if any of the current vaccines in progress will work against the mutated strain.




Gozit Jul 6th 2020 5:59 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 12877447)
At some point last year there were only a few hundred known cases, all of them in China,

Yes, and China shit the bed on dealing with it, as their government does with everything. Why should I have to be part of cleaning up their mess?

Gozit Jul 6th 2020 6:02 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 12877459)
All it takes is 1 person, at 1 birthday party and boom 20+ infected.
All it takes is 1 person who even knew they had COVID but felt fine to attend 1 gathering, and boom, several more cases and a death.

Both of the above are real world examples.

Kind of hasn't been discussed much about how the virus appears to have mutated to become more infectious and this mutated strain is now the predominant one in the US, may explain in part why its spreading even quicker now. 3-9 times more infectious, and could very well mutate again to cause more serious illness as well, while its mutating to become more infectious, doesn't appear yet to be causing more serious illness.

This mutated strain has been linked to Europe, and now out of control in the US.

Also brings up the issue of, the longer it can spread through society the more chances it has to mutate, and it could very well mutate to become more deadly.

Oh and the part of the virus that mutated to become more infectious, apparently is the part of the virus vaccine programs are targeting with their vaccine, and the vaccine programs are working with the older, less infectious virus, and they do not know if any of the current vaccines in progress will work against the mutated strain.

I predicted it would start to mutate...normally viruses mutate to become more infectious, but less deadly. You'll notice across Canada hospitalizations and total deaths are decreasing day by day. We need to do an evaluation and find out if it really is as deadly as it was 6 months ago, because we could be dealing with a totally different strain.

Jsmth321 Jul 6th 2020 6:02 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 12877462)
Yes, and China shit the bed on dealing with it, as their government does with everything. Why should I have to be part of cleaning up their mess?

Because their mess is now in our house and no choice but to be part of it or the mess will just keep continuing.

Paul_Shepherd Jul 6th 2020 6:04 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl (Post 12877453)
well yes...there is that. :nod: We are like you...we are staying home...if we do go out we mask up. Problem is the young folk...they think they are invincible and are eager to get on with their lives.

Doesn't seem many are doing that now....the 401 is almost back up to pre pandemic levels of traffic, so lots of people travelling now.

Jerseygirl Jul 6th 2020 6:04 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 12877457)
The government isn't giving off messaging that they want everyone to stay home, what with restaurant patios etc open, so i've been doing what I want where it's open. This is where it should come down to everyone's personal comfort level. If you are not comfortable going out / returning to work in the office, etc no one should force you to do so.

Likewise, no one should force me to do something because it makes them more comfortable.

You can turn the "selfish young people" argument around and say that it is selfish for the more vulnerable to ask us to give up some of our youngest, healthiest years (which do go by quickly) to protect them, when they already had the chance to be a 20-something year old. If this goes on for much longer we will miss out on a significant portion of that and we won't get it back.

To turn the argument back to travel, I suppose I can go where I want, and either agree to self isolate upon return, or stay in my destination until the requirement is lifted. (Or go elsewhere.)

The irony of it is, as a self employed person the government would pay me CERB for that 14 day isolation period due to not being able to work due to COVID.


I rest my case. :rolleyes:

Pulaski Jul 6th 2020 6:08 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 12877462)
Yes, and China shit the bed on dealing with it, as their government does with everything. Why should I have to be part of cleaning up their mess?

If you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem. :nod:

For every crisis, catastrophe, war, and any other flavour of calamity in history that has afficlted mankind, we could argue "if only this had happened, then people wouldn't have had to deal with that", and those are great conversatinos to have (my high schol history teacher called them "the if's of history"), but any and all such discussions are utterly pointless when it comes to addressing and solving the problem. Therefore the source cause of the disease is wholly and entirely irrelevant as of now, where we have to deal with the disease and it's consequences. Blaming the Chinese won't stop one single infection, cure one single person, or save anyone from dying from the disease!

Jsmth321 Jul 6th 2020 6:09 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
Everything is more or less back to normal in Vancouver area, everything that is still in business is back open, there were some closures which is to be expected, the grocery stores are packed, and number using IC and store pick up is down, while some things are still banned in BC like large gatherings over 50 people, movie theaters are allowed to open back up with some rules to follow, although the government of BC would still prefer people from other provinces to not travel to BC, and have taken some steps like not allowing non-BC residents to camp in provincial parks to discourage out of province travel.

Traffic actually on some days seems worse, but I notice less people on buses so I wonder if more people have taken to driving, gas prices are back up, really except for the masks, and signs to social distance, you wouldn't think there was a pandemic at this point.

While the grocery stores do their please maintain 6 foot distance announcements, reality is, its impossible to maintain 6 feet distance in any big box store, there are too many people, aisles too narrow and 90% of the people don't care to social distance.

Paul_Shepherd Jul 6th 2020 6:10 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 12877464)
I predicted it would start to mutate...normally viruses mutate to become more infectious, but less deadly. You'll notice across Canada hospitalizations and total deaths are decreasing day by day. We need to do an evaluation and find out if it really is as deadly as it was 6 months ago, because we could be dealing with a totally different strain.

I agree to extent with this, as I have heard this report too, that in some areas that the virus has mutated and became a lot less potent/deadly, if that is the case, thats all that matters, it doesn't matter if its more infectious in that case if its nothing more than a bad cold... we just need to know if that is consistent mutation everywhere.

But you are right, we could well be dealing with something very different than we were at the start of all this.

Siouxie Jul 6th 2020 6:15 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 12877457)
The government isn't giving off messaging that they want everyone to stay home, what with restaurant patios etc open, so i've been doing what I want where it's open. This is where it should come down to everyone's personal comfort level. If you are not comfortable going out / returning to work in the office, etc no one should force you to do so.

Likewise, no one should force me to do something because it makes them more comfortable.

You can turn the "selfish young people" argument around and say that it is selfish for the more vulnerable to ask us to give up some of our youngest, healthiest years (which do go by quickly) to protect them, when they already had the chance to be a 20-something year old. If this goes on for much longer we will miss out on a significant portion of that and we won't get it back.

To turn the argument back to travel, I suppose I can go where I want, and either agree to self isolate upon return, or stay in my destination until the requirement is lifted. (Or go elsewhere.)

The irony of it is, as a self employed person the government would pay me CERB for that 14 day isolation period due to not being able to work due to COVID.

SIGH. You've been asked to give up a few weeks or months at most......... BIG DEAL........... are "young people" that self centred that they can't be inconvenienced for one spring and part of a summer ?

There are many YOUNG people becoming ill or carrying the virus and passing it on to others (who may have 'vulnerable relatives' - like me), because they aren't using their common sense - they are so fixated on having 'a good time' they don't want to be sensible and social distance.

They would only pay you CERB under very specific circumstances - taking off abroad for a jolly isn't one of them... that's called 'voluntary' reduced income. Nobody forces you to go overseas and stop working.

:thumbdown:

Pulaski Jul 6th 2020 6:16 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd (Post 12877472)
I agree to extent with this, as I have heard this report too, that in some areas that the virus has mutated and became a lot less potent/deadly, is all that matters, doesn't matter if its more infectious in that case... we just need to know of that is consistent mutation everywhere. ......

It has also been suggested the virus now circulating in the Americas is more infectious too. Whether it is less deadly too may come clear in 4-6 weeks, as fatalities lag infections. :unsure:

Partially discharged Jul 6th 2020 6:18 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 12877457)
The government isn't giving off messaging that they want everyone to stay home, what with restaurant patios etc open, so i've been doing what I want where it's open. This is where it should come down to everyone's personal comfort level. If you are not comfortable going out / returning to work in the office, etc no one should force you to do so.

Likewise, no one should force me to do something because it makes them more comfortable.

You can turn the "selfish young people" argument around and say that it is selfish for the more vulnerable to ask us to give up some of our youngest, healthiest years (which do go by quickly) to protect them, when they already had the chance to be a 20-something year old. If this goes on for much longer we will miss out on a significant portion of that and we won't get it back.

To turn the argument back to travel, I suppose I can go where I want, and either agree to self isolate upon return, or stay in my destination until the requirement is lifted. (Or go elsewhere.)

The irony of it is, as a self employed person the government would pay me CERB for that 14 day isolation period due to not being able to work due to COVID.

I'm getting a real sense of entitlement vibe from your post. We need to be all in this together and your talk of travel for what I sense is for the sake of travel doesn't help things.

Jerseygirl Jul 6th 2020 6:22 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Siouxie (Post 12877473)
SIGH. You've been asked to give up a few weeks or months at most......... BIG DEAL........... are "young people" that self centred that they can't be inconvenienced for one spring and part of a summer ?
There are many YOUNG people becoming ill or carrying the virus and passing it on to others (who may have 'vulnerable relatives' - like me), because they aren't using their common sense - they are so fixated on having 'a good time' they don't want to be sensible and social distance.

:thumbdown:

he is writing off the elderly because they are an inconvenience and he wants to get on with his life, having no regard for others. He fails to realise that it is the elderly that fought wars, worked hard to add to the economy, to give the young the life they have today. Sorry Gozit but you are giving the young a bad name, I am sure they aren’t all as selfish as your posts indicate.

dbd33 Jul 6th 2020 6:23 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 12877440)
At some point we have to go back to living our lives and leave it to personal choice whether people accept the risk of being infected or give them the supports and choice to stay isolated if that is what they feel is best for them.

I take it you won't mind if I smoke on the plane then.


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