Re: Coronavirus
 

Condolences.

Aye its just the way sources seem to be wording it that "an agreement" will be made with other countries (NZ included) in coming weeks - which seems to make me think either they're misreporting it, my take on what constitutes an "agreement" is seriously flawed, or they are truly throwing caution to the wind.

I personally don't think anyone apart from New Zealand has a proper handle on it - whilst I feel the UK has been hit hard (along with Italy etc) I don't feel new cases or deaths are spiralling out of control (surprising given the beach scenes, BLM protests, Liverpool street parties etc - and the fact the people behind us are having a large garden party as I type this!) Given that I think far more people are catching it than numbers suggest, anywhere with 25+ recorded infections per day(unless they are a huge country) present a small but serious risk - that if I was somewhere like NZ wouldn't want coming in - I could see how it could be tolerable that countries with similar infection rates accept each other - but this would require strict protocols, as it would be no use someone coming off an NZ flight at Gatwick, collecting baggage off the same carousel as a flight from Florida.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Let's consider a distopean summary view of where I suspect we're heading.

In the first instance there was a wait and see approach.
This was reasonable given the uncertainty surrounding the disease but this didn't last long because it became clear, very quickly, that the disease killed but in some instances too slowly and that many unfortunate victims required a great deal of hospital care. It also became an accepted fact that C19 was easily transmissible and these two facts together led to the unescapable conclusion that health care systems would be placed at great stress.
As New York and elsewhere discovered, essential items, stockpiled in great numbers and easily replaced in 'normal' times, became very quickly used up and this put further stress on both finances and health workers themselves.
The only remedy to prevent health services being overwhelmed and to buy time was, as the chinese implemented in an admirably efficient manner, to lock down the population as a whole and to isolate those infected.
It was a fact of life that modern society was totally unprepared for a pandemic.
It worked.. but..
People needed to be fed, essential services needed to be maintained and a lid needed to be put on individual needs to prevent social collapse.
All this was driven by needs and in many respect was apolitical because it had to be done, decisions were made by themselves.
However, time has passed. Survivors have witnessed what they think is the worst this virus can do and they want to move on.
Politicians have no idea what this virus can do because they don't listen to bad news, they only think in the short term and then only how events will affect them personally.
We've witnessed this in the US where calls to 'Open Up' by the top echelons of government were echoed lower down and we are now witnessing the results. Degrees of 'opening up' are being implemented worldwide because the people want it.
Ttime has passed... What would have been unthinkable four months ago will now be acceptable. It will be hard, the survivors will witness the worst that this virus can do and they'll blame everyone but themselves, but it'll come to pass that everywhere will open up because that's what people in general will do and it's what they want. They'll ignore pleas for restraint but they've had enough. Western countries aren't like China and western leadership doesn't have the will to dominate the streets, in spite of what some might say. It's still, at the moment, political suicide to put troops on the streets to subdue an unruly population and there's no clear idea as to what they'd do if they did.
Health services will put under increasing strain and we'll witness what's happening in Brazil, and we'll live with it because the alternative, for those still alive, won't think that the virus is coming for them and it's better than staying indoors.

Health pundits will have cautioned against opening up but they see the problem through filters aligned to health needs and they'll be ignored.
Financial pundits will have welcomed the opening up because they see the problem as one of maintaining government and they'll be welcomed.
Emergency services will have recoiled at the prospect of maintaining order and services as essential workers fell to the virus but they'll pull through.
Politicians will do what they always do, argue and squabble amongst themselves and do nothing useful but'll claim they knew what was best and did it all the time and they'll give themselves pats on the back and sy it was all up to them.
And those of us who survive, well we'll get on with it and wistfully remember the bad days and look forward to better times and at the next election we'll vote some useless twat into office like we've always done.

Look around you. Nobody is taking this virus seriously. Initial estimates of millions of deaths haven't come to pass and there's a feeling that it's all been overhyped, but I don't think it has, it's not really got going yet, it's out there waiting...

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think Bill Burr sums it up perfectly. Listen from the 50 second mark, this is the way that most non believers are behaving.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'd go along with much of that.

It is an invisible threat. If it came with green boils and visible external scarring for life and an everlasting odour or an ebola type rash and bleeding ,then people might take it all more seriously in terms of mortality , impairment , long term damage and disability. But it cannot be seen so out of sight is out of mind.

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Imagine trying to explain to your spouse where you picked up covid-19 :blink:

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No problem, it's everywhere.... Waiting...

Re: Coronavirus
 

A McDonalds near IKEA had an employee test positive. Hope it's not starting to pick up space again.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That was such a good podcast, the whole 3 hour one I mean !

Re: Coronavirus
 

That's definitely part of the problem. I think the health authorities should be making some more effective advertising to demonstrate transmission risk. Perhaps dynamic diagrams with balls changing colour as the virus spreads or failing that, some kind of zombie movie parallel. I really feel the vast majority don't understand the concept of a pandemic.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Both governments in some countries and population in general in some countries lack the financial ability to deal with months of no income, or severely reduced income.

Until society finds an alternative to money for basic needs, people will always need it and eventually prioritize it over health so they can meet their basic needs.

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Honest, darling, I didn't get it at the strip joint, I must have got it at the nail salon. :lol:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

On the same page

Re: Coronavirus
 

Super Store is half-arsing spraying down the handles of the shopping carts as you enter the store, but thing is you get the cart out if the parking lot, so by the time you get the door, you have already touched the handle of the cart, so they do a half arsed spray and wipe, may as well do nothing at all, the tiny amount of spray they do is of no use, and they reuse the same rag over and over.

Re: Coronavirus
 

This was discussed at length between friends the other month - taking the UK as a prime example. Would you trade your free health care for the freedom to live how we did before compared to our April version of lockdown and likewise would you trade your free healthcare for a X% drop in earnings.

It then led onto how lack of hope, optimism, drive can kill a person ( people losing their fight with cancer days after their grandchild is born, the quick decline of physical health after a partner dies etc.) - https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_relea...-pcd092018.php

and whether for those nearer the end of their natural life, those in terminal hospital wards etc - have the lockdowns and the restrictions brought with them actually caused this, and been responsible for a number of excess deaths, and potentially some of the covid deaths.

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Free healthcare? It isn’t FREE.

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Re: Coronavirus
 

Bored? You are YouTubing in overdrive today Bristol. :blink:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Agreed 100% JG! .....

@Stumpylegs: "A drop in earnings"? :confused: When I arrived in the US I compared my after-tax income with that back in the UK and found that if I include my health insurance as a "tax" (a payroll deduction that is, for all practical purposes, mandatory), then I was still substantially better off paying for heath insurance than I was under the "free" NHS coverage in the UK, because the income tax I paid in the UK was so much higher. And before anyone comments on other taxes I pay in the US, NC sales tax is only around a third of the British VAT rate, and property taxes in NC were almost exactly the same as I was on my home in London - for a house four times the size and with 50 times the land area.

"Free" NHS care? No thanks!

Re: Coronavirus
 

Canada has a decent halfway point for healthcare, not as comprehensive as say the UK seems to be, but covers the basics without costing arms and legs per month for health insurance, while keeping taxes relatively low.

I know for myself, I pay about the same income tax per year as I did in the US, sales tax is higher by about 5% but then the government rebates some of that back every quarter so in the end probably paying about the same sales tax or less here, but but vast majority of our buying is for non-taxable items, we don't spend much on taxable goods, so sales tax is never a big issue for me, but for those with more income buying more taxable goods, I guess I can see sales tax becoming more annoying.

At least I know I can see the doctor, get lab tests, get a CT scan, etc and not have to worry about finding the money to pay for it, honestly I am probably healthier in Canada because I will actually go to the doctor, where in the US each visit cost $50+ dollars, which when low income isn't a small amount, and I would skip going to a doctor, having lab tests done etc because of the cost.

It wouldn't be until 6 figure income where I gather the tables would turn the other way.

Re: Coronavirus
 

What an absolute horrible time to get married in England.

New rules for England

Under the new guidance for England released on Monday, small wedding and civil partnership ceremonies are allowed to go ahead only when they can be done safely and follow social distancing guidelines.

The advice says:

• Ceremonies should be kept "as short as reasonably possible" and limited as much as possible to just the parts that are legally binding
• No more than 30 people should attend
• Everyone should follow the 2m rule if possible, or 1m with extra safety measures
• No food and drink should be consumed as part of the event
• Hands should be washed before and after the exchanging of rings, and the rings should be handled by as few people as possible
• Singing, shouting or playing music at a volume that means people have to raise their voice should all be avoided. Instead of singing, recordings are suggested
• Speaking during the ceremony - for example saying the responses to the vows - should not be in a raised voice
• Playing instruments that are blown into should be avoided
• When singing or chanting is required, only one person is allowed to and the couple or venue should consider installing a clear screen
• Venues frequently used for weddings should mark the floor with tape or paint to help people maintain social distance.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Maybe I should have used the "illusion of free healthcare" or a "non privatised healthcare "(not that thats true either)
I wasn't suggesting that someone would be worse off in a none NHS society. I am fully aware that a free NHS has a cost to every person whether they use it or not, and much of that cost is absorbed as profit rather than used to deliver treatment.

The point about an x% drop in earnings was more around the pay cuts/pay freezes many of us lucky enough to stay employed during COVID 19 in the UK have had to take and at what point people would stop "protecting the NHS " as the continuation of doing so hits their wallets for years to come.

When discussed many folk are quick to go " i wouldn't take a 2% payout to protect the NHS". Despite the fact many are already in effect paying more than that.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Which just goes to show what happens when bureaucrats rule!. Why not simply state that only the couple are allowed to handle the rings?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Apologies for resurrecting a relatively old comment. This came up in my feed today and, while talking about a completely different issue, the sentiment holds true:

Re: Coronavirus
 

My only issue was with your assertion that the NHS is "free". It isn't.

I have no idea what you mean by that, and I suspect that you don't either - other than perhaps "profit is bad". :lol:

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Ditto, no idea.

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This guy has a Phd in tripe. Managed about a third today before his non-sequiturs baffled me.

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It's caretaker's fault. He posted a good one and there were a bunch of similar ones on the same page. :lol:

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Whoa, back up there, big shoots. I accept no responsibility for anything coming out of your isp address. :hand:

Re: Coronavirus
 

‘Free at the point of service’ is a better term IMO.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Apologies in my head i know exactly what i mean, and half the time i type it out as it is in my head, I think i try and shorten messages excessively so as not to write war and peace. "excessively absorbed as profit by private companies" is what I originally typed although after shortening it and rereading it was like " yea i'm still making the same point" For my point on the "free" NHS I originally typed free to use, although Jerseygirl above almost definitely has the correct definition - even if I was partially trying to say it appears free.

My take on it is that as a public service, there shouldn't be excessive profit, whilst any of the private companies used to fulfil contracts on those services will make profit, they shouldn't be profiting off it to the extent they are.

Take painkillers for example, supermarkets in the UK can sell them for circa 2p a pill, the supermarket is making a profit selling them in colour printed boxes of 16. the end user buying them at 30p a pack has no bulk buying power etc.

The same companies that are supplying the supermarkets supply the NHS, in huge bulk, often in much higher pack quantities, can forgo colour printed boxes etc - but charge the NHS over 15p a pill.

So whereas for £1 I could in theory get 50 painkillers, bought from a retail shop, where the person purchasing the goods has no bulk buying power etc. but a government body buying millions if not billions per year can only get 6/7 for that £1, someone somewhere is profiting excessively.

Should mention those figures are pure item costs, by the time the NHS prescribe or dispense such pills the cost is more like 25p a pill.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Most readers insert that for themselves, rather than believing in the tooth, and bones, and organs, fairy. Free at the point of service healthcare is cheaper across the population. It's not reasonable to complain that it's poor value for you, as Pulaski does, because you're not sick and so have low premiums under a commercial system. The person having the million dollar operation on the taxes of the well under a FATPOS system isn't really winning. The person not having an operation because there's only a commercial system isn't winning either.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Please don't soak your face masks in lysol.

I only come up with these ideas because someone I know in real life keeps doing such things.

Not sure whats worse sticking lysol wipes into the nose or soaking masks in it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

John Tory, Mayor of Toronto is recommending a bye-law making the wearing of masks in indoor public places (shops, businesses etc) mandatory from July 7th. :thumbsup:

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Masks are for Liberal's :lol:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...f96b248cb5.jpg

Re: Coronavirus
 

seeing signs like that actually makes me quite happy, of course all those [people must be "pro choice" in the abortion debate then....
....

Re: Coronavirus
 

Western governments have really messaged this mask thing wrong. The should draw a parallel with drink driving regulations, excess alcohol is prohibited not because the driver might smash his own car up, but because he might injure others. This concept of social responsibility (over a minor infringement on individual freedom) needs to be promoted somehow.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think the analogy with drunk driving is a little strong but take the general point. Plus I find in North America it isn’t nearly as much a social taboo/punished sufficiently as it is in UK.

It’s hard for the government to take the high ground with this after they refused to mandate vaccination for all children in the public school system.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If it really was beneficial, they would make it mandatory. When they don't, it gives the impression that the benefits are not that great.