Re: Coronavirus
 

Should be a way around it. If you're not provincially registered from out of country you're not covered right? In any case, mere signalling of the government stance would focus the minds of the entitled minority.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's illegal to charge for any healthcare that is provided under The Canada Health Act..

Re: Coronavirus
 

More importantly, it's wrong to tie medical care to behaviour; didn't wear a seatbelt/mask/helmet/condom, smoked, drank, well that was stupid but it's not the place of the healthcare system to deal with the morality of any of that.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Why is it wrong in the case of an infectious disease. Say the disease had a much higher transmission rate, but some individuals asserted their right to not safeguard others, why not seek to modify that behavior by threatening to withhold care?

Re: Coronavirus
 

There is already legal sanction for, for example, knowingly spreading HIV. The courts put people in jail.

It's not the place of medical professionals to decide that people should, or should not, be treated for moral reasons. It's impractical and a lunatic path leading to people not being treated if they haven't been to church for a month of Sundays. What if I have a tape worm caught from eating a poorly cooked pig and the doctor is a Muslim, should he or she withhold treatment? Nah, universal healthcare means treating everyone regardless of whether or not other people think they shouldn't have injured themselves.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Exactly so. Healthcare shouldn't be judgemental.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I disagree with you both. Sometimes judgements need to be made for the greater good. It would not be the healthcare system making the judgement, but the police and likely, the judicial system. In any case, the mere imposition is such a protocol would send a clear signal to violators that their action is deemed wrong by society.

I don't see why healthcare workers need to be put at mortal risk by people who willfully transmit an infectious disease. It's very different from the examples you cite.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Anyone been spending cash?
I have the same bunch of $20 bills I got as cashback with groceries in March. :blink:

Re: Coronavirus
 

The odd time but only for very small purchases. Anything over $20 is on the debit card.

Re: Coronavirus
 

People buy eggs with cash. I put the cash in the car wash machine.

Re: Coronavirus
 

When will we ever get the technology where we can put eggs into the car wash machine directly ?!

Re: Coronavirus
 

Some people buy their eggs by email payment which is auto-deposited to an account I can use for contactless payment to the car wash so that nearly works Unfortunately the bank charges for the auto-deposit exceed the price of the eggs so it's not a financially attractive option unless you're the bank.

Re: Coronavirus
 

A couple of times when we sold something and they paid with cash, but we haven't made an effort to go the an ATM to get cash, we sometimes do cash back at Wal-Mart for $10 to get some coins though mainly for parking meters.

Re: Coronavirus
 

As a good friend of mine would say " catch yerself on"

Turning someone away from Emergency or appointnentbbecause they are not wearing a mask is acceptable because the non masked are making a choice.
not treating someone because of their foolish decision is patently wrong. I certainly couldn't participate in a system that followed those rules. How can such callous behaviour be for the greater good? Woukd you have them coughing and sputtering and dying? Maybe the ditches littered with people ejected from MVAs who hasn't worn seatbelts or helmets? Oh and those smokers, just let them die.

infectious disease treatment benefits society regardless of how the infected acquired the disease.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Come along to our hospital here in Kelowna and there is no mandate to wear a mask, that's in the hospital! Majority of staff are wearing one especially when treating people but i saw many people without, there is no sign asking you to put one on and i saw some staff members around the building not wearing them, albeit they were in hallways or offices BUT clearly if there is no specific requirement even in a hospital you can see why some people get a bit pissy about different rules in a store for example. There is currently, in BC anyway, no clear and concise agreement from all parties, even one of our glorious MP's was seen in airport without one. I don't think the rules in UK are any better either.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Costco management should run the country. Better health policies than BC hospitals, done more for the middle class standard of living than any government.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I haven't gone anywhere yet in Vancouver area where masks are required. The urgent care clinic yesterday I was at 90% of the workers had a mask on, but no sign mandating it, although the sign did say they recommend a mask be worn if possible. I was the only patient in the waiting room, so no idea if patients listen to the recommendation.

This is the BC CDC stance on masks for healthy people.

"If you are healthy, wearing a non-medical or cloth mask or face covering is a matter of personal choice and it might help to protect others. This is because some people can spread the virus when they have very mild symptoms or may not know that they are infected. In this case, wearing a mask can help protect others by containing your own droplets when talking, laughing, singing, coughing, or sneezing. Wearing a cloth mask might not protect you from COVID-19, but it is a good option in situations where you cannot keep a safe distance from others for an extended period of time, such as when you are on transit, getting a haircut or visiting someone indoors.


Any mask, no matter how good it is at catching droplets or how well it seals, will have minimal effect if it is not used together with other preventive measures, such as frequent hand washing and physical distancing.


It is important to treat people wearing masks with respect."

Re: Coronavirus
 

Someone commented on our local forum that she found that mask wearers don't seem to keep their distance like is recommended and she felt they were under the assumption that it was ok to stand on top of you so long as they had a mask on. Our doctors will not let anyone in without a mask but they seem to be in the minority as you say.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I generally find the opposite. Those not wearing a mask do not keep their distance.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I have noticed the same, a good chunk of people wearing masks do not distance even though its possible to do so, in general things in Vancouver are back to normal, the only precautions super store has now is a bottle of hand sanitizer at the door, and they still space you at check out, but the rest of the store is crowded free for all.

Wal-Mart mostly took down their one way aisles, they left the floor stickers but took down all the barriers they had that forced you to go one way, at self check out there is 0 distancing, even their employees come right up 2 feet away and try to sign you up for their stupid credit card, Canadian Tire isn't any better, their employees and vast majority in the store do not distance, Home Depot today was the same.

I notice less and less distancing by the day, just saw 3 city workers cram into the cab of a truck, so doesn't seem that they are social distancing.

Those are the only stores I have been to recently, but that has been my experience the last couple weeks.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Slowly recovering job wise in BC, unemployment fell 0.4% in June from 13.4% to 13%.

Gains in employment in May and June bring back about 40% of the total jobs lost since this started in March.

Youth unemployment at 29%



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...2020-1.5644843

Re: Coronavirus
 

Youth unemployment was a massive issue in most of the western world before the pandemic unfortunately and Covid has likely only made things worse. In most industries, experience means much more than qualifications these days so unless you've been educated in medicine or a high demand STEM subject, post graduation career opportunities are usually few and far between.
​​​​​​
This is going to be even more of an issue in a country like Canada where immigration routes are still fairly liberal compared with most other similar economies.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes fully agree. Our Walmart and Home Depot have both removed all the barriers and security at door so they have relaxed the number of people allowed in. Distance markers still on floors and arrows in Wally mart but nobody follows the damn things anyway. Hardly ever see staff wearing PPE but some shoppers do. Local coffee shop we use has since put more tables inside and removed the space stickers on floor, all that remains of the COVID era is a single bottle of hand sanitizer oh and a screen at the counter. What i did notice is that there seems to be a lack of staff probably due to the uncertain future and keeping costs down but this had translated into uncleared tables inside and out and a rather over full garbage container by the counter, clearly nobody has time to stop what they are doing and clean, empty and sanitize which is thewhole point of this "new normal" although as i am no germophobe i am quite liking the new old normal. ha ha

Re: Coronavirus
 

If there was a place where I would expect to see people without masks, it would be WalMart. I'd also go there if I wanted to see people without covering for their butt crack. Any windowless building signed "Tavern" would also be a good bet for both along with vape shops and motels offering rooms by the hour. I suggest that during a pandemic is not the time to visit any such places.

Re: Coronavirus
 

And considering the overall unemployment was just around 5% in February, the current rate is still very high in comparison.

The company I was working for at the airport, while I left before COVID ever came into reality, so far they have only brought back 5 out of the 200 they laid off, but 50 flights a day average to now 7 which is up, but a long ways to go before they will ever need to have full staffing levels again.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I have a friend who was travelling many years ago with his then new young wife and at the reception of, what he describes now, as a rather seedy looking establishment he was asked if he wanted the night or just the hour. His missus told him in no uncertain terms they were NOT staying!

Re: Coronavirus
 

RBC don't charge for e-transfers on personal accounts :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

8 positive cases linked to events in Kelowna downtown and waterfront between June 25 and July 6

6 of the 8 live somewhere other than Kelowna, mainly BC lower mainland and Alberta.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...-b-c-1.5646074

Re: Coronavirus
 

I heard that on the radio in the night. I don't think I ever heard anyone say Kelowna before, I've only seen it written.

I spent a few minutes wondering where Collona was and pondering that the name of this mysterious place was a bit like Corona. :lol:

Re: Coronavirus
 

:lol: How were you saying it in you head ?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Kellona

Re: Coronavirus
 

Corona in Kelowna. :lol: At least it's put us on the map

Re: Coronavirus
 

It occurred to me last night just how fortunate the human race as a whole has been with this pandemic.
First of all it has demonstrated just how unprepared ALL governments of all persuasions have been at battling the virus. Sure some have seen very low totals for cases and deaths but it isn't over yet and all that they've done in the short term is provide islands of vulnerability in a world awash with C19.
No, it wasn't the lessons learned but the virus itself that should have us reaching to pet the rabbit's foot.
Worldometer suggests today that of the 13M cases only 570T or about 4.3% have died, but if we consider the fact that many positve cases haven't been counted then the actual death rate could well be less than half the 4.3%.
So haven't we been fortunate?
The WHO https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-s...-virus-disease tells me that the average death rate for ebola is 50%, but ebola kills much too quickly and the transfer mechanism requires close personal contact with bodily fluids and in many ways is self limiting.
So imagine a more virulent covid or a mutated ebola, it is possible.
I repeat, we've been fortunate.
Q. Will we realise this fact and will we do anything to prepare for the next attack?
A. I don't think so.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think that is because it has so far mostly impacted the developed world. After starting in Wuhan, it moved on mainly to East Asian and then western first world countries due to increased levels of international travel and trade between China and those nations. In short, governments balls ups were largely saved by Western modern medicine and the stronger immune systems that come with living in a rich country.

Now that the virus has largely left the first world, the US notwithstanding, poorer nations are becoming more heavily impacted and I think the fatality numbers could be far, far worse.

​

Re: Coronavirus
 

Assuming that all the appropriate deaths have been included too.

Have you looked at individual countries? France and UK are around 1 in 7 or 14%. Germany about 1 in 20 (5%). Portugal 1 in 28(3%) compared to Spain 1 in 10 (10%).

Re: Coronavirus
 

I tend to think it more likely that deaths are recorded more accurately than are infected cases with minor symptoms.
But one sparrow doesn't make a summer so itemising selective data for individual countries can distort the wider picture.
But I take your point. Different treatment regimes may be shown, when this is all over, to have contributed to the mortality rate and we may even find different strains at work, but none of this is suggested or even tested yet.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Quelle au na !?! :rofl:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not all governments were poorly prepared. Vietnam has done very well.

Judging by how lax Western governments are towards this virus (let's get some bustle into those pubs!) the future is not looking good at all.

Re: Coronavirus
 

They had a lot of practice. Vietnam and other parts of Asia were hit by Swine and Avian flu whereas those epidemics weren't really a thing in the west apart from pockets of infection in Canada.

Japan has had mandatory temperature checks on arrival for all incoming passengers for over a decade and any arrivals from countries with high disease infection have been diverted to a short medical exam before being allowed to proceed to passport control. HK, Korea and Singapore and others have also been doing spot temperature checks for years whereas in the west we've always focused on the traditional immigration and customs controls.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes. Just taking issue with Dave's usual hyperbole "ALL governments of all persuasions". Even now, there is very little reflection in Britain on how Asia is managing to contain this virus with much higher populations and density.