British Expats

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   The Maple Leaf (https://britishexpats.com/forum/maple-leaf-98/)
-   -   Coronavirus (https://britishexpats.com/forum/maple-leaf-98/coronavirus-930602/)

Former Lancastrian Jun 22nd 2020 7:02 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
Just for clarification for those mentioning border officials in this context it would be Provincial officials and not Federal officials;) There again we get blamed for other stuff we don't deal with like security at airports for domestic and international flights although CATSA has 3 of my Agencies letters in their name so it is easy to get us confused :lol:

scrubbedexpat091 Jun 22nd 2020 7:38 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12870541)
Just for clarification for those mentioning border officials in this context it would be Provincial officials and not Federal officials;) There again we get blamed for other stuff we don't deal with like security at airports for domestic and international flights although CATSA has 3 of my Agencies letters in their name so it is easy to get us confused :lol:

Even more confusing as people think the CATSA screeners are federal employees when they are not, CATSA outsources to companies like G4S, Garda, and Securitas for screening services, and people at times I found confuse US Customs as Canadian at airports with pre-clearance, some don't realize US Customs are actually American's who work for the US Government in Canada. And from a distance various uniforms look similiar, add in airport security (not the screeners but actual airport security) who wear dark blue police like uniforms at YVR, from a distance they look like RCMP, not until your closer you realize they have no guns, and notice the word security on their uniform rather than police, and the ones with K9's even more confusing, is it security, RCMP or CBSA.








cxx Jun 22nd 2020 7:50 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12870541)
Just for clarification for those mentioning border officials in this context it would be Provincial officials and not Federal officials;) There again we get blamed for other stuff we don't deal with like security at airports for domestic and international flights although CATSA has 3 of my Agencies letters in their name so it is easy to get us confused :lol:

I think it's peace officers at the NB borders. Regardless of who they are, I expect that if they knew the child was living in Quebec they would have reminded the doctor about the 14 day quarantine requirement.

scrubbedexpat091 Jun 22nd 2020 8:14 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
Countries who required masks early on appear to have lower death rates vs countries that delayed mask wearing.

scrubbedexpat091 Jun 23rd 2020 6:13 am

Re: Coronavirus
 
  • 32 more people have been diagnosed with COVID-19 since Friday.
  • One more death has been recorded in the province.
  • There are 14 people in hospital with the illness, six of them in intensive care.
  • There are currently a total of 2,822 cases.
  • There are 182 active cases in B.C.
  • 2,471 people have recovered in the province.
  • There are no new community outbreaks.
  • Phase 3 to begin in B.C. soon, though no specific date announced.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...e-22-1.5622545

Shard Jun 23rd 2020 8:17 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 12868532)
No. I have been studying the data rather than listening to the media. Whatever you set the wager at, I'll take the bet.

Sounds like this guy might take your wager AC !

​​​​​​https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1754026563683/

Gozit Jun 23rd 2020 2:25 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
I wonder when the 14 day self-isolation requirement will be partially or fully lifted for Canadians who choose to travel. I don't see the increased risk as long as you are travelling somewhere with LOW covid-19 cases, vs. going out to a store, bar/restaurant or any of the other things that have reopened.

From where I live I can drive to Toronto and do whatever I want then come back but if I go outside the country to a country with low COVID cases, I have to self-isolate upon my return to Canada. It's starting to not make sense. I've reached out to my MP and been searching for info on this but haven't come up with anything concrete re. the government plan on this.

I think we will see something soon though, I am getting emails from airlines all planning on resuming services on July 20-23 ish, so that gives me a bit of a hint that there may be some agreements in place by then.

Almost Canadian Jun 23rd 2020 2:37 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
To those that act as if coming within 2 metres of someone will cause them to explode. What is your proposed plan? To remain isolated at home until they find a vaccine (bearing in mind there isn't a vaccine for AIDS yet) and to have those that cannot work from home receive funds from the government until then?

Those jurisdictions that have, supposedly, been the ones whose examples others should follows (Germany, South Korea) are now experiencing spikes too.

I am genuinely interested.

Jerseygirl Jun 23rd 2020 3:34 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 12870972)
To those that act as if coming within 2 metres of someone will cause them to explode. What is your proposed plan? To remain isolated at home until they find a vaccine (bearing in mind there isn't a vaccine for AIDS yet) and to have those that cannot work from home receive funds from the government until then?

Those jurisdictions that have, supposedly, been the ones whose examples others should follows (Germany, South Korea) are now experiencing spikes too.

I am genuinely interested.


All I ask is that people just wear a bloody mask and keep the germs to themselves.

Almost Canadian Jun 23rd 2020 3:41 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl (Post 12871014)
All I ask is that people just wear a bloody mask and keep the germs to themselves.

OK. Other than that, everything opens and people return to work?

Gozit Jun 23rd 2020 3:47 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 12870972)
To those that act as if coming within 2 metres of someone will cause them to explode. What is your proposed plan? To remain isolated at home until they find a vaccine (bearing in mind there isn't a vaccine for AIDS yet) and to have those that cannot work from home receive funds from the government until then?

Those jurisdictions that have, supposedly, been the ones whose examples others should follows (Germany, South Korea) are now experiencing spikes too.

I am genuinely interested.

:goodpost: agreed, the world cannot be put on hold forever.

Ultimately it comes down to respecting others' boundaries re their personal risk tolerance. Clearly the risk of overwhelming our healthcare system with ICU cases is now less than we thought it was, so as long as we don't overburden our healthcare system people should be able to go about their business within reason. (I.e. don't be stupid, and wear a mask where necessary/prudent.)

Danny B Jun 23rd 2020 5:14 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 12871019)
OK. Other than that, everything opens and people return to work?

This is how I am dealing with it where I live.

If I am outside in a small crowd of less than 30, I'm not worried. No mask and not really concerned about being 2m apart.
If I am inside, a small shop for example, no mask but I do social distance and turn my head away when social distancing isn't possible, small aisles for example.
If I get my haircut or visit the dentist, I will do whatever they tell me to do. No questions asked.
I haven't been to a restaurant yet so I'm not sure what I will do there, hopefully sit outside.

BristolUK Jun 23rd 2020 5:16 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 12870955)
From where I live I can drive to Toronto and do whatever I want then come back but if I go outside the country to a country with low COVID cases, I have to self-isolate upon my return to Canada. It's starting to not make sense.

But what if the day before you flew from a low case country you were in a high case country? What if you were exposed to the virus in a low case country? How about all those people at the airport/on the plane that might have been infectious symptomatic or not, from all over, including high case countries.

It's not really practical go into all that for new arrivals whereas it's quite easy to insist they self-isolate.

Unless road blocks and the like are set up, there's little to be done preventing you from travel in your own country or even province.

scrubbedexpat091 Jun 23rd 2020 5:58 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 12871022)
:goodpost: agreed, the world cannot be put on hold forever.

Ultimately it comes down to respecting others' boundaries re their personal risk tolerance. Clearly the risk of overwhelming our healthcare system with ICU cases is now less than we thought it was, so as long as we don't overburden our healthcare system people should be able to go about their business within reason. (I.e. don't be stupid, and wear a mask where necessary/prudent.)

This is more or less what BC has been doing, the initial restrictions (which were still far less restrictive vs say Ontario, and parts of the US) kept the curve low and to a point where the hospitals were never overwhelmed, and once we had consistent falling of new cases and hospitalizations they started lifting various restrictions, phase 3 will see just about everything else reopened, although I wont be surprised if they keep the cap on gatherings to 50 as we have had some outbreak clusters linked to family gatherings, people tend to not take precautions with their family as they would with strangers.

But again we never saw super strict lock down or restrictions other places had.

BC now is doing the managing game, keep the cases to keep hospitalizations low, as long as we don't see massive increases in new cases/hospitalizations I imagine we will not need to go back to phase 2 or phase 1 restrictions.

BC is pushing for longer border closures though, especially with the US, bulk of our early cases are European strain imported from Eastern Canada and strain from US mostly Washington State, so BC government isn't keen on seeing mass influx of travel into BC from outside of BC yet,



Gozit Jun 23rd 2020 5:58 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Danny B (Post 12871064)
This is how I am dealing with it where I live.

If I am outside in a small crowd of less than 30, I'm not worried. No mask and not really concerned about being 2m apart.
If I am inside, a small shop for example, no mask but I do social distance and turn my head away when social distancing isn't possible, small aisles for example.
If I get my haircut or visit the dentist, I will do whatever they tell me to do. No questions asked.
I haven't been to a restaurant yet so I'm not sure what I will do there, hopefully sit outside.

Same here.


Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 12871065)
But what if the day before you flew from a low case country you were in a high case country? What if you were exposed to the virus in a low case country? How about all those people at the airport/on the plane that might have been infectious symptomatic or not, from all over, including high case countries.

CBSA officer would ask you when you left the country and which countries you travelled to, and if necessary look up passport records - you would declare to the officer you had been in a country with high cases and they would tell you to self-isolate.

Mask wearing is mandatory on the plane and in the airport and I would hope I would stay 6ft+ away from other people, I don't have a desire to be near strangers. Risk of coming into contact with someone infectious is the same as walking into a shopping mall to do some non-essential shopping.


It's not really practical go into all that for new arrivals whereas it's quite easy to insist they self-isolate.
i'd disagree with that given the fact that i'm sure CBSA can swipe your passport and see everywhere your passport has been swiped, plus all the electronic databases available they should be able to figure it out, that combined with a declaration that is sworn to be true by the person wishing to (re-)enter the country as to where they have been.

scrubbedexpat091 Jun 23rd 2020 6:02 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Danny B (Post 12871064)
This is how I am dealing with it where I live.

If I am outside in a small crowd of less than 30, I'm not worried. No mask and not really concerned about being 2m apart.
If I am inside, a small shop for example, no mask but I do social distance and turn my head away when social distancing isn't possible, small aisles for example.
If I get my haircut or visit the dentist, I will do whatever they tell me to do. No questions asked.
I haven't been to a restaurant yet so I'm not sure what I will do there, hopefully sit outside.

I wear a mask when the business requires it, so far its only been the barber and medical lab that has. I try to wear one in Wal-Mart and Super Store, on a typical day day when we are there picking orders its not possible to social distance, people don't care and nobody follows the arrows on the floor, its the wild wild west.

Gozit Jun 23rd 2020 6:22 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 12871085)
This is more or less what BC has been doing, the initial restrictions (which were still far less restrictive vs say Ontario, and parts of the US) kept the curve low and to a point where the hospitals were never overwhelmed, and once we had consistent falling of new cases and hospitalizations they started lifting various restrictions, phase 3 will see just about everything else reopened, although I wont be surprised if they keep the cap on gatherings to 50 as we have had some outbreak clusters linked to family gatherings, people tend to not take precautions with their family as they would with strangers.

But again we never saw super strict lock down or restrictions other places had.

BC now is doing the managing game, keep the cases to keep hospitalizations low, as long as we don't see massive increases in new cases/hospitalizations I imagine we will not need to go back to phase 2 or phase 1 restrictions.

BC is pushing for longer border closures though, especially with the US, bulk of our early cases are European strain imported from Eastern Canada and strain from US mostly Washington State, so BC government isn't keen on seeing mass influx of travel into BC from outside of BC yet,

Agreed. I'm not saying we should be accepting tourists, but the government should be considering somewhat relaxing the 14 day quarantine for those who already have a right to enter Canada if they have not travelled to a high risk area in the last 14 days.

Shard Jun 23rd 2020 6:31 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 12870972)
To those that act as if coming within 2 metres of someone will cause them to explode. What is your proposed plan? To remain isolated at home until they find a vaccine (bearing in mind there isn't a vaccine for AIDS yet) and to have those that cannot work from home receive funds from the government until then?

Those jurisdictions that have, supposedly, been the ones whose examples others should follows (Germany, South Korea) are now experiencing spikes too.

I am genuinely interested.

It's not so much exploding I'm worried about as being stuck on a ventilator for a month, and possible death. I find that something of a disincentive.

Coronavirus is moderately infectious, less than measles, but more than the seasonal flu. If I were under 30, I might be a bit more flippant about it, but with age comes wisdom. Generally, speaking.

​​​​​South Korea and Germany have advanced testing and tracing regimes, and are not averse to wearing masks. Direct comparisons are false comfort.

​​​​​

Jerseygirl Jun 23rd 2020 7:12 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12871103)
It's not so much exploding I'm worried about as being stuck on a ventilator for a month, and possible death. I find that something of a disincentive.

Coronavirus is moderately infectious, less than measles, but more than the seasonal flu. If I were under 30, I might be a bit more flippant about it, but with age comes wisdom. Generally, speaking.

​​​​​South Korea and Germany have advanced testing and tracing regimes, and are not averse to wearing masks. Direct comparisons are false comfort.

​​​​​

there is also growing concern about the permanent damage it is doing to the lungs to consider...in both the young and old.

Paul_Shepherd Jun 23rd 2020 7:21 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Danny B (Post 12871064)
This is how I am dealing with it where I live.

If I am outside in a small crowd of less than 30, I'm not worried. No mask and not really concerned about being 2m apart.
If I am inside, a small shop for example, no mask but I do social distance and turn my head away when social distancing isn't possible, small aisles for example.
If I get my haircut or visit the dentist, I will do whatever they tell me to do. No questions asked.
I haven't been to a restaurant yet so I'm not sure what I will do there, hopefully sit outside.

Exactly the same here. I think many people are looking at it along these lines now. went to opticians last week, was asked to wear a mask, so I did. Haven't been to a pub or restaurant yet.... but that will happen this week... my local has an extended patio area, so will see what the modus operandi is there.

caretaker Jun 23rd 2020 7:21 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl (Post 12871114)
there is also growing concern about the permanent damage it is doing to the lungs to consider...in both the young and old.

Don't be such a pessimist, that's only if the damage to the heart, liver, or kidneys doesn't kill them. It isn't certain the lung damage will kill them. I've had chemical burns to my lungs, lead poisoning, plus all the usual acquired and inherited heart, stroke, and cancer threats. As before, I put on the mask before going into the store and remove it after, and sanitize on the ways in and out. If I go visit my frail old sister in BC I'll have to quarantine for a while just in case.

Pulaski Jun 23rd 2020 7:29 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 12871087)
..... I try to wear one in Wal-Mart and Super Store, on a typical day day when we are there picking orders its not possible to social distance, people don't care and nobody follows the arrows on the floor, its the wild wild west.

Agreed, which is why I have only been there once since mid March. It was an utter shambles, and not only for the actions of the public - one employee approached me unannounced and stood by my shoulder :frown: - I was at a self scan kiosk and she had decided that I needed assistance.

Lowe's isn't much better and I try to only go there in the morning or the evening or late afternoon, after the pros have been and gone early in the morning, and before or after the peak retail traffic.

Jerseygirl Jun 23rd 2020 7:34 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by caretaker (Post 12871120)
Don't be such a pessimist, that's only if the damage to the heart, liver, or kidneys doesn't kill them. It isn't certain the lung damage will kill them. I've had chemical burns to my lungs, lead poisoning, plus all the usual acquired and inherited heart, stroke, and cancer threats. As before, I put on the mask before going into the store and remove it after, and sanitize on the ways in and out. If I go visit my frail old sister in BC I'll have to quarantine for a while just in case.

I didn’t say lung damage would kill...I said it was permanent.

Almost Canadian Jun 23rd 2020 7:42 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Danny B (Post 12871064)
This is how I am dealing with it where I live.

If I am outside in a small crowd of less than 30, I'm not worried. No mask and not really concerned about being 2m apart.
If I am inside, a small shop for example, no mask but I do social distance and turn my head away when social distancing isn't possible, small aisles for example.
If I get my haircut or visit the dentist, I will do whatever they tell me to do. No questions asked.
I haven't been to a restaurant yet so I'm not sure what I will do there, hopefully sit outside.

That's me too.

I have been to restaurants, both when they were limited to 50% capacity and since that has been raised to 100%.

Someone has to keep these business going.

Pulaski Jun 23rd 2020 7:43 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Danny B (Post 12871064)
..... If I am outside in a small crowd of less than 30, I'm not worried. No mask and not really concerned about being 2m apart.
If I am inside, a small shop for example, no mask but I do social distance and turn my head away when social distancing isn't possible, small aisles for example.
If I get my haircut or visit the dentist, I will do whatever they tell me to do. No questions asked. .....


Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 12871087)
I wear a mask when the business requires it, .....


Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd (Post 12871119)
..... went to opticians last week, was asked to wear a mask, so I did. .....

The problem with this "I'll use a mask, but only when told to" approach is that the main benefit to wearing a mask is to stop you transmitting the (asymptomatic) disease to others, so "everyone else" is the primary beneficiary of your mask, and therefore mask-wearing is something that works far better for everyone only if everyone does it.

From my perspective I try to avoid being anywhere near someone (in a grocery, or occasionally Lowe's, as those are about the only places I go at the moment) who isn't wearing a mask - i.e. not "as close as 6ft", I mean avoid them entirely, so not enter an aisle where I see someone without a mask, and usually walk away from if I see them coming towards me, and never loiter anywhere near them even if that means I have to circle back later. Non-mask weares are obviously unconcerned and therefore IMO are at a much greater risk of catching/ carrying the disease.

caretaker Jun 23rd 2020 7:46 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl (Post 12871124)
I didn’t say lung damage would kill...I said it was permanent.

I read your post, don't worry. I just wanted to point out that massive damage to multiple organs has been reported since people started getting really sick. Doesn't get much more permanent than fatal (and lung damage is the thing that's been killing most of the covid victims). Luckily lungs, hearts, kidneys, livers, are all transplant possibilities these days, but of course if 2 or 3 of your organs are shot you aren't much of a transplant candidate.

Almost Canadian Jun 23rd 2020 7:49 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12871103)
It's not so much exploding I'm worried about as being stuck on a ventilator for a month, and possible death. I find that something of a disincentive.

Coronavirus is moderately infectious, less than measles, but more than the seasonal flu. If I were under 30, I might be a bit more flippant about it, but with age comes wisdom. Generally, speaking.

​​​​​South Korea and Germany have advanced testing and tracing regimes, and are not averse to wearing masks. Direct comparisons are false comfort.

​​​​​

I haven't made direct comparisons and I anticipate that, unless a vaccine is found soon, all jurisdictions will end up with similar numbers, once age of citizens, health of citizens, density of population, climate, etc, is all accounted for.

It appears to be deadly to a very low percentage of populations and, once it all shakes out the various lockdowns will be deemed to have been inappropriate by the vast majority of the world's citizens. I am not one that subscribes to the whole "Saving one life is worth any economic sacrifice" version. I appreciate that others may disagree.

Danny B Jun 23rd 2020 8:26 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 12871127)
. Non-mask weares are obviously unconcerned and therefore IMO are at a much greater risk of catching/ carrying the disease.

If I lived in Miami I would be concerned and I would wear a mask, but my province has a population of 5m and there are 16 new cases. I may change my mind if the cases start sky rocketing, but until then, I can be careful without a mask.

Shard Jun 23rd 2020 9:12 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl (Post 12871114)
there is also growing concern about the permanent damage it is doing to the lungs to consider...in both the young and old.

Absolutely. There's so much we don't know about this disease, and there's very little dissent amongst health professionals that it is serious. It just seems like the general public (and a few choice national leaders) want to belive differently.

scrubbedexpat091 Jun 23rd 2020 9:29 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
Wal Mart has the self check out cashier approaching everyone to ask about applying for the Wal Mart master card and buy they won't take no for an answer.

Most of the store visits are for online app deliveries otherwise I would avoid the stores but one has to earn income somehow and right now shopping for these apps is quickest way to some income.

Stores could do more but of course they don't want to hire enough staff to direct customers and as you say often the store workers are just as bad if not worse than customers.

But it's not spreading quickly as it was and I was surprised the various protests over the last month here didn't lead to a spike. We seem to be averaging around 10 new cases per day give or take and under 200 total active cases, few in hospital but time will tell.

The focus as far as I can tell for restrictions in BC wasn't so much to save lives but to just keep hospitals from ending up like NYC or Italy.

I also think having a consistent message in BC from one person and politicians largely stepping back and letting the health officials do their jobs played a role and some luck, our spring break is later vs back east and as soon as BC saw a spike the government took action. That early action likely kept the spread low.



Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 12871122)
Agreed, which is why I have only been there once since mid March. It was an utter shambles, and not only for the actions of the public - one employee approached me unannounced and stood by my shoulder :frown: - I was at a self scan kiosk and she had decided that I needed assistance.

Lowe's isn't much better and I try to only go there in the morning or the evening or late afternoon, after the pros have been and gone early in the morning, and before or after the peak retail traffic.


Shard Jun 23rd 2020 9:29 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 12871130)
I haven't made direct comparisons and I anticipate that, unless a vaccine is found soon, all jurisdictions will end up with similar numbers, once age of citizens, health of citizens, density of population, climate, etc, is all accounted for.

It appears to be deadly to a very low percentage of populations and, once it all shakes out the various lockdowns will be deemed to have been inappropriate by the vast majority of the world's citizens. I am not one that subscribes to the whole "Saving one life is worth any economic sacrifice" version. I appreciate that others may disagree.

One life? Is that how many that have been lost in Canada? Or the USA? I understand economic imperatives, but if (and it's not that big of an if) the virus knocks out a large portion of the population, there will be no economy? Britain took a very laissez faire approach in the first weeks of March, insisting on the economic priorities, and look at how the spread of the virus has eneded up having a much greater impact than if a strict lockdown was introduced from the start. If the argument is an acceptable mortality rate, then that should be discussed in the public domain. How many Covid related deaths are we willing to endure for varying degrees of economic freedom? It's not one death, it's hundreds or even thousands. By way of analogy, imagine a new chemical plant was to be built, but it was likely to kill hundreds of residents due to some uncontrollable toxicity? Would there not be a massive debate and public analysis on whether that plant should be opened?



BristolUK Jun 23rd 2020 10:11 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Gozit (Post 12871086)
CBSA officer would ask you when you left the country and which countries you travelled to, and if necessary look up passport records - you would declare to the officer you had been in a country with high cases and they would tell you to self-isolate.​​​​​

Somewhat dependent on honesty though.

i'd disagree with that given the fact that i'm sure CBSA can swipe your passport and see everywhere your passport has been swiped, plus all the electronic databases available they should be able to figure it out
Are they now doing that with passports everywhere in Europe? Say one has been in a high incidence area or country (Lombardy, parts of France, UK etc and you get on a train or take a car to, say, Germany. Unless they are swiping passports at all borders in Europe they can't be sure where you've been. So it's either let everyone through with no restrictions or apply a restriction to everyone.

I would hope I would stay 6ft+ away from other people, I don't have a desire to be near strangers.
This is only like driving a car though. Your safety is also dependent on others.

Risk of coming into contact with someone infectious is the same as walking into a shopping mall to do some non-essential shopping.
Yes, so best not to do some non-essential shopping. Stick to the essential stuff be it shopping or travelling. Shopping requires some restrictions/behavioural changes, so should travel.

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12871103)
It's not so much exploding I'm worried about as being stuck on a ventilator for a month, and possible death. I find that something of a disincentive.

Coronavirus is moderately infectious, less than measles, but more than the seasonal flu. If I were under 30, I might be a bit more flippant about it, but with age comes wisdom. Generally, speaking.

I find this idea, previously suggested, that people should get infected ASAP, get immunity (as if that's a known fact), while at risk people should isolate to lack thought.

I have two mothers both in their 80s and at risk. One, my MIL, lives with someone else at risk (me) and a granddaughter who works customer facing retail. The other, with some mobility issues, lives with a grandson who runs a shop.

I don't believe households like this are unusual. How do you keep the at risk safe in a house with shared areas, appliances and gadgets if the healthy ones are encouraged to get infected?




Siouxie Jun 23rd 2020 10:39 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12871103)
It's not so much exploding I'm worried about as being stuck on a ventilator for a month, and possible death. I find that something of a disincentive.

Coronavirus is moderately infectious, less than measles, but more than the seasonal flu. If I were under 30, I might be a bit more flippant about it, but with age comes wisdom. Generally, speaking.

​​​​​South Korea and Germany have advanced testing and tracing regimes, and are not averse to wearing masks. Direct comparisons are false comfort.

​​​​​

I hear you ... with all of my arteries more than 70% blocked my concern is that as COVID 19 has a tendency to cause the sufferer to have blood clots - I'd only need one to do me in, so I'd really rather not catch it. :(

BristolUK Jun 23rd 2020 10:40 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Danny B (Post 12871143)
If I lived in Miami I would be concerned and I would wear a mask, but my province has a population of 5m and there are 16 new cases. I may change my mind if the cases start sky rocketing, but until then, I can be careful without a mask.

As someone in a province with a population a 6th of that size with something like a 17th of the cases and 2 deaths compared to 169, I can certainly relate to that.

Unfortunately when you know the numbers have rocketed, it happened several days ago.

Here, we went 2 weeks with no new cases and only 120 altogether. Then there was one and then another 17 days (I think) with no more. There were no active cases, 100% recoveries and no deaths.

Then it emerged that someone failed to self isolate when he should have done (and there's a lot more to the story) upon return to the province, he has tested positive and is directly linked to around 40 other cases, which was a third of the total we'd had to that point.

Fortunately (but not for those living there) this has been confined to a small area with a population of around 6,000.
What if it had happened at the southern border of the province instead and the infected individual went to work for two weeks in a city with a population of 144,000?

It's quite scary.

Former Lancastrian Jun 23rd 2020 10:46 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
Some people watch far too many TV programmes and have these ideas that UK/US/CBSA/Australian or any other countries Border officers simply scan a passport and voila we know everything about the person in front of us or if at a kiosk that also knows about you. In my 30 plus years I cannot recall anyone ever being dishonest with me or telling a white lie or a whopper.

I know Jerseygirl had strawberry jam on her bagel this morning, Shard had 1 sugar in his coffee and added Soy milk. Bristol UK had 2 x rashers of bacon on his breakfast plate and that Gozit still has a lot to learn in life. I haven't got around to all the other posters yet. OMG (nameless poster) you did that last night in bed you seriously need help.:lol:

BristolUK Jun 23rd 2020 10:49 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12871203)
I know Jerseygirl had strawberry jam on her bagel this morning, Shard had 1 sugar in his coffee and added Soy milk. Bristol UK had 2 x rashers of bacon on his breakfast plate

And that was just from the stains on the passports, nothing to do with scanning.

Almost Canadian Jun 23rd 2020 10:51 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12871167)
One life? Is that how many that have been lost in Canada? Or the USA? I understand economic imperatives, but if (and it's not that big of an if) the virus knocks out a large portion of the population, there will be no economy? Britain took a very laissez faire approach in the first weeks of March, insisting on the economic priorities, and look at how the spread of the virus has eneded up having a much greater impact than if a strict lockdown was introduced from the start. If the argument is an acceptable mortality rate, then that should be discussed in the public domain. How many Covid related deaths are we willing to endure for varying degrees of economic freedom? It's not one death, it's hundreds or even thousands. By way of analogy, imagine a new chemical plant was to be built, but it was likely to kill hundreds of residents due to some uncontrollable toxicity? Would there not be a massive debate and public analysis on whether that plant should be opened?

The vast majority of those being killed are not earning wages and paying taxes. So your analogy doesn't really work.

Jurisdictions cannot afford to keep paying money to those that can't work while not receiving their taxes. So, if we cannot return to normal until a vaccine is obtained, i don't believe societies will survive. Those that are advocating for such restrictions are not surviving on $2,000 a month.

caretaker Jun 23rd 2020 10:56 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 12871198)
it's quite scary

Well that's the thing, isn't it? You only have to catch it once and you could be screwed, or you could pass it to your MIL. I've got it easier, but still trying to keep protocol, but there are always lapses when you go out.


caretaker Jun 23rd 2020 10:59 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian (Post 12871203)
Some people watch far too many TV programmes and have these ideas that UK/US/CBSA/Australian or any other countries Border officers simply scan a passport and voila we know everything about the person in front of us or if at a kiosk that also knows about you. In my 30 plus years I cannot recall anyone ever being dishonest with me or telling a white lie or a whopper.
I know Jerseygirl had strawberry jam on her bagel this morning, Shard had 1 sugar in his coffee and added Soy milk. Bristol UK had 2 x rashers of bacon on his breakfast plate and that Gozit still has a lot to learn in life. I haven't got around to all the other posters yet. OMG (nameless poster) you did that last night in bed you seriously need help.:lol:

We had a cop here in Regina who was head of the Identification Division and he was a great guy, but I always used to say he could look into your eyes and know exactly what you had for breakfast. Born to it, I suppose.

Pulaski Jun 23rd 2020 11:25 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 12871167)
One life? Is that how many that have been lost in Canada? Or the USA?....

Let's say that the US has a population of 328million and life expectancy is 80 years. As a simple arithmetic exercise, the number of deaths per day on average in the US will be 328million / (80x365), which is 11,233, therefore to date, coronavirus has killed 11.0 days of average deaths in the US. It's barely a drop in the bucket. For Canada with a population of 38 million, the corresponding figure is 6.50 days of average deaths, so not only does the number of deaths barely register as compared to the total population, it hasn't really made much difference to the number of deaths that would have occured anyway. The coronavirus is a tragedy at the personal and family level, but barely registers at a national level.


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:43 am.

Powered by vBulletin: ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.