Re: Coronavirus
 

A graph of infections over time might seemingly show a second wave but in reality it might be the first wave arriving at areas previously uninfected. There's no local spread in many areas but once rules are relaxed, as they must be, then all the Typhoid Marys from the GTA will start doing their stuff and numbers will rise. It seems inevitable to me. Hope I'm wrong.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I accept that some experts were recommending one course of action and others were advising the exact opposite. If you look at those that have tried the data the impression appears to be that government actions all over the world made little difference and that there is a whole range if factors that resulted in different outcomes unless, of course, we accept the Nunavut government were the real geniuses and the rest of the world should have followed their lead.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Really?

If you were an 80-year-old, where would you have felt safest once the outbreak was clearly underway, but you were not yet affected?
- US?
- UK?
- Canada?
- Australia?
- New Zealand?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Any of them as i would have remained indoors.

I know that people wish to blame governments but, if that is the case, what happened in Quebec when compared with Nunavut? Despite how people wish to spin this, you can't compare apples with oranges.

Re: Coronavirus
 

it's not blaming governments to think that their actions make a difference and that people are alive or dead today according to the government in place at the time. Some, notably the governments of the US. the UK and Brazil, have not done well by their people (and I don't say they had bad intentions, they're just not very good at governing). Others, such as in Ontario, have done the right things and saved lives. Of course countries with good governance and fortunate geography have done best but comparing the island nation of New Zealand with the island nation of the UK is as unfair as comparing Quebec, a populated cosmopolitan place and Nunavut, a piece of tundra occupied by two men and a polar bear which no one visits..

Re: Coronavirus
 

I thought that that was the point I was making. One cannot really blame the governor of New York, just as one cannot praise the governor of Montana. Accepting, of course, it appears to be perfectly acceptable to blame Trump.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If the virus was already in Italy during December, like this report says it was, then you cannot blame anyone for its spread from Italy into the USA over Christmas. No one knew.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Florida reports nearly 4,000 new coronavirus cases, a record single-day increase :eek:

Re: Coronavirus
 

So much for hot weather killing the virus.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That is insane. And here in BC we are averaging only 10 a day.

Median age of cases in Florida is down to 37 and they expect it to keep dropping as they test, and most of the younger people testing positive are not showing symptoms according to CNN article.

Florida as of 8:10am EST today

1,532,871 total tested
1,443,123 Negative
89,748 positive

antibody testing results for Florida as of June 12, they only update this weekly.
Total tested 179,109
Positive 7,717
Negative 171,364
Inconclusive 28

Re: Coronavirus
 

The result of a team effort by the President and the Governor. I can see the argument that they are rationally deciding that infection and death is a price worth paying for the benefit of the economy but not an argument that they're uninvolved.

Re: Coronavirus
 

​​​​​Perhaps Trump's BS is going to be his undoing in November, many of his supporters will have perished.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Eh?

I thought that Trump was criticized for closing the borders to China and Europe too early. What more could he have done that was within his power to actually do? Do you blame Cuomo equally for what happened in New York, or it is only Republics that are worthy of criticism?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Shit is getting real in Beijing..wartime measures to prevent a 2nd wave.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...-wave-12009330

Re: Coronavirus
 

One thing he could have done is not shut down the US pandemic research team in 2019. Another, in February, is not to constantly downplay the severity of virus and the transmission risk. He could coordinated a national response, instead of pitting the US Gov against states on ventilators or stoking division between red and blue states. His response to a crystal clear threat has been beyond a shambles.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That's news to me. As regards China the most common criticism is that he said he closed the border but didn't. He only banned Chinese people, not people who were in China.

Stockpile supplies and distribute them to States as required rather than monetizing the supplies by seizing them and selling them to third parties. Kept the, China based, virus anticipation team in place. Followed the Obama era virus playbook. Followed the direction of the CDC from the start. Refrained from firing experts who disagreed with him. Kept the coronavirus task force in place. Avoided encouraging States to open early. Not scheduled the Covid dissemination rally for tomorrow. Closed the border with China when he said he did. Avoided peddling quack nostrums; the fish tank dead are directly his fault.

Not equally no. He made mistakes, he dealt poorly with De Blasio, he's no friend of medicine for the poor but he did treat the virus as a public health problem and tried to act in that context rather than as a reputational problem to be managed by, for example, not letting cruise ships dock in case they increase the case count on shore.

Of course Democrats are reasonable targets for criticism but, in a crisis, you want someone who can manage things, an organizer. Republicans are terrible at management, they always leave a mess and a deficit and a fiscally prudent Democrat has to come in and clean up. Ford seems the exception among conservatives worldwide in making no glaring errors; Trump's done almost as poorly as Johnson (Alexander not Lyndon).

Re: Coronavirus
 

One can't blame Trump for the US not having a single unified healthcare system as that seems to be something that its useful to have in a pandemic but the rest of your post is absolutely spot on. His main failing of course, is common to all things his government does, not understanding/caring about the detail and how to do pretty much any form of governance, and looking at everything through the lens of his clinical narcissism. "It'll just go away, you'll see". $120k dead. More to come.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'll accept that he fired people but, most of the other stuff you appear to wish to blame him for, was with the power of Congress to do, or the individual States themselves. I posted a video above that show that he was happy to help those governors that requested help and, yes, even those from the other side of the aisle If you can point to any votes that would have achieved the above, which the Republicans actually prevented, or he vetoed, I will agree with you.

I appreciate that he said some things, that the media blew completely out of proportion (drinking stuff, for example, which he never actually said) but the media ridiculed him to such an extent that only those people too stupid not to research things themselves would have done so.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'd really, really like to think that you're doing your usual Devil's Advocate thing here. But I fear you may actually believe what you wrote.

Trump has, personally and through assorted proxies in the media, made the whole coronavirus response into a toxic, partisan, vile mess. His promotion of hydroxychoroquine, his commentary about such nonsense as bleach and UV light, his constant sniping at - or firing of - people who dare to disagree with him even when his pronouncements are patently absurd. If you really think that "the media blew completely out of proportion" is an adequate get-out for his failure to act even slightly responsibly in the face of a national public health emergency, then there's really nothing to discuss.

He's the president - it is his job to take responsibility for a national policy, to coordinate between Federal agencies, State governments, and Congress. Instead he has been trying to make political capital out of every difference of opinion, failing to answer questions (and throwing insults back at journalists who ask them), shirking responsibility, and stirring up discord. I really fail to understand how any rational individual could provide an argument in support of the Trump administration's handling of the pandemic.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Congress is, of course, powerless in the face of McConnell's unwillingness to consider bringing legislation to a vote.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'd suggest that Trump's comments about bleach and UV light were massively overblown by the media. I have seem a meme that summed the issue up perfectly: "Trump advises people to drink water" is spun into "Trump.advocates drowning"

Someone has to inject a little debate into these types of posts. This forum has become a sad version of what it used to be when I first joined, when people used to duck and dive.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I do agree with that AC, it does seem to have become, not necessarily more PC, but more something or other...I worry that it’s because we are all becoming more Canadian. :unsure:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Has BE begun to drift towards cancel culture? Anyone who disagrees with you is not only wrong but evil? I don’t think it’s gone that far... if anything on occasion people on here are so good at making their point that I kind of agree with both sides.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I came to Canada to escape the personification of evil, Margaret Thatcher. Apart from Trump I haven't since encountered such malevolence in a person. I do, however, disagree with most people while feeling they should be heard.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I do wonder what the plan is if it turns out antibodies for this virus is not long lasting. Suppose it could be like the flu shot and require a new shot every X amount of time. This virus seems tricky especially the part where many seem to have it and not know it....maybe its mutating where it can spread but not make people as ill, that would be a good think I would think.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I’m thinking it could well be like flu...I different vaccine every year.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Margaret Thatcher

Re: Coronavirus
 

Certainly there is some media bias against Trump, but it pales into insignificance against the lies and hyperbole he trots out. Face it, he's a moron. He doesn't read. He doesn't listen to his advisors. He's a raging narcissist. Consider all those top military generals and admin staff who slate him once they have the independence to so. I don't know why anyone would give Trump the benefit of the doubt on anything. Prior to the pandemic and BLM, one might be able to argue that he's some kind of pragmatic unconventional leader, but since those two watershed events, he's shown a startling level of unawareness and incompetence.

​​

Re: Coronavirus
 

Haha. Be careful !

Re: Coronavirus
 

You'll never hear me deny he is a moron. However, lots of things attributed to him by the media, and intelligent people on here, simply didn't happen. The bleach/UV nonsense being the perfect example.

When the number of deaths in Canada is grossed up to reflect the population differences between it and the US, the figures don't look so favourable when the population density, numbers of truly global cities and cases/deaths are taken into account.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So his comments about bleach were misconstrued? As a head of state, at a public press conference, with his chief medical staff too bullied to speak isn't that kind of random musing reckless?

As far as death rates, living in the UK, I really can't comment on the US or Canada. Our Poundshop Trump is equally capable of incompetent leadership.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I take it that you haven't viewed the video of what he said? I suggest you do so and then confirm that at no time did he suggest that people drink bleach. He mentioned that his expert, who was sat close to him, had mentioned the possibilities and he suggested that they look into it. C9mpletely different to what some in he media reported.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ahem.


I think Trump gets a generous press. Two "news" networks are slavish to him. Fox is allowed to report as if it were a news channel without having a license. "Both sides ism" causes even the NYT to publish lunatic op-ed pieces by members of the Trump administration as if they advanced views acceptable in a civilized society.; it's as if they were taking, say, Creation Science, seriously.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I haven't referred to any drinking of bleach? I have seen the clip a number of times, and found his non-expert riffing on introducing disinfectant to the body reckless. Ok, the media embellished it, with motive, but it doesn't excuse the original behavior. It's classic Trump, leading by innuendo and ignorance, he did the same thing with hydroxy. Deflecting fault from the perpratator to the media is to lose sight of what's going on.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I agree. I find the American press far too deferential to Mr President in the circumstances. Anyone that moronic would be slaughtered (in person) by the UK press. Not literally !

Re: Coronavirus
 

That isn't the entirety of what was said, as you are likely aware.

Politics in the US is a mess and that is due to the conduct of all involved. I don't belive that anyone has suggested is is a perfect example of how a society acts in the bests interests of those it is purporting to serve.

I will leave is for others to continue the debate as my weekend is about to start.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Some may have heard about the 'border' restrictions operational in Atlantic Canada and how a doctor broke the rules and has now been linked with about 40 of something like 45 new cases in NB over the last month. He initially apologised for his "error of judgement" but said he didn't meet up with anyone; going straight to Montreal area and straight back.

The health authority suspended him and, curiously, revealed he had previously given notice of resignation.

There's been much back-tracking of his original statements - covering his back, presumably - following the social media storm.

The New York Times picked up on the 'restricted travel' within Canada aspect and interviewed him. Perhaps he didn't think it would be picked up in Canada or maybe he just didn't think.
He had a job interview in Montreal...likely he was successful and that led to his resignation before anything blew up.
:blink:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Would you lot stop taking this into a Political thread please..... as has been asked previously....... any more and they will get moved to >>>>>>> https://britishexpats.com/forum/mapl...thread-932380/

Re: Coronavirus
 

Interesting. Originally he said that he'd gone to collect his daughter, who was living in Montreal, and who he brought back from there and put into daycare in Canada. Guessing she was infected without symptoms, and infected him. If he told the border officials that he was bringing the daughter from Montreal surely they would have told him they both had to quarantine for 14 days :confused:

Re: Coronavirus
 

It appears he did both. A lucky break having a job interview coincide with the 'need' to collect the child. :sneaky:
In the early days it was suggested 'work related' was the reason given (hence no isolation), which could be the one bit of truth. :unsure: