Re: Coronavirus
 

You mean a bit like how the early variants co-existed with each other, and how mutations led to Delta and they all co-existed followed by Omicron which may - just like the others - co-exist and provide further opportunities for new forms and so on.

Who knew. :lol:

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I believe he was suggesting that multiple virus variants could co-exist in the individual.

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Ah. :lightbulb:

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Sorry, it was a clip from The Sun :o(not C4) but it's the CMO from Moderna that's making the point.

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I'm sure that is true but are we saying that the majority of the Western World really couldn't give a rats arse about anyone else? Before COVID came along we had flu and coughs and colds every year without fail, some years causing hospitals to cancel surgeries and non urgent procedures as they became inundated. At no time during my 60 odd years on this earth in UK or Canada was i expected to wear a mask when visiting a doctors office or hospital and apart from some surgeons and some procedures carried out there was no mass mask wearing going on by any of the medical professionals or the daily visitors to the ER. Now if wearing a mask was never seen to be a necessity in a medical setting, particularly when people are being brought in feeling unwell then the thought of joe public wearing one to go grocery shopping or take a walk up the street seems even more odd to most of us who haven't been brought up in parts of Asia. I don't think freedom and liberty is the main issue, it's just something most of us have never done and still find difficult to do naturally judging by the amount of people i have witnessed turning round before entering the store to run back to the car to grab mask.
I could see a future where a mask becomes the norm in any medical setting and possibly close up personal services but not so much in stores and malls and the like.

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Sounds like federal government are aiming to introduce further travel restrictions to limit/stop international travel again :(

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I am triple vaccinated by now and the virus has lost it's scare to me. If I catch the virus, the illness will be a milder one.

What scares me way way more is the political reaction on travel restrictions.

I truly believe that they should let vaccinated Canadians travel without hindrance and any bureaucratic ado.

Even the UK abolished the "red listed" countries, as it simply doesn't make any sense anymore.

Politicians can't expect for everyone to stay home forever, and be always scared about everything.

Politics itself scares me the most during the pandemic.

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Agreed... politics is a huge issue, no western governement has followed its own protocol for this pandemic....they have blindly followed China all along, some countries more than others... to the point now I think its lost its scare for a lot of people... most people just want to get on with their lives, and the fact that vaccine is mostly successful makes this possible...given the fact that if you do get it, it wont be any more than a cold. There is the odd case that fully vaccinated people can die from it, but there is also the odd case that you won't make it to your destination when you board a plane.

Of course there are people that can't have the vaccine due to medical reasons, these examples are much lower than people who refuse to have the vaccine, there is a big difference, and my theory is the vaccine allows enough "normal" life to continue for most people as it prevents spread, real sickness and death until the virus has mutated enough into a harmless form and we no longer need a vaccine, our own immune system will deal with it. I hope Omicron is the first stage of this process, if so, maybe its time we should be aiming for herd immunity instead of locking people up again. Just my thoughts on the latest reaction to this new contagious but weak variant.

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yeah well the tin hat brigade is all going “told you so”. At this point, travel restrictions are low hanging fruit that can show the government is doing something. The horse has already bolted so this makes no sense, you mostly have to take a test to go anywhere or come back into Canada so if they’re saying that’s not effective then why are they forcing us to line the pockets of these testing companies. The UK government only reintroduced those hotels because they were hoping it would stir enough controversy to bury the daily sleeze Boris is encountering.

I lost my dad to COVID, I’ve done everything that’s been asked of me but I’m at the point that I’m increasingly questioning some of the actions being taken here. I’ll probably get my 3rd vaccine, but then I question how are we ever going to get out of this if there are still places in the world that haven’t been able to administer/receive the 1st doses, when seemingly I’m in a lower risk group. Chris Whitty admitted he thinks it’s going to be increasingly difficult to keep the rational people onboard with reintroduction of restrictions.


Difficult to know what’s more damaging; being honest with the population that this is going to go on for years (as some warned earlier in the pandemic) or teasing people with “return to normal” only to revert/introduce more draconian rules at a later date.

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OH No! Here we go again. So Omicron is beating the vax in B.C. Canada!

Let's hope and pray it is a much milder disease and people recover very quickly.

😕 💛💛🌸💛💛 🕊

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This is a very balanced article on Omnicron. We know how to deal with it. We just need to do it. https://time.com/6128506/omicron-covid-19-how-to-fight/

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You'dve thought after 2 years of this sh1t that the govt would have learned the fallacy of knee jerk reactions. The best thing they could do right now is 1) ensure booster vaccine supply 2) have a national programme to roll out LFT's (NS I think leads the way here) and 3) Make sure that Canada is providing as much support as possible to countries with low vax rates. I suspect they'll do 1 and not even attempt 2 & 3.

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Where I live in France only 81% of the population has got the first Covid jab. We are in an area where there are a lot of Anti-vax campaigns, marches and out and out revolts against the masks, vaccines, and locking down, particularly adversity to closing of nightclubs, restaurants and such.

We have a lot of isolated elderly people in my neighborhood who appear to be doing everything possible, right and following all of the advice. It is not easy to get the vaccine here. My neighbors could not make an appointment, all possible avenues were all booked up or closed and so the husband was allowed back into Germany but she wasn't.

From what I read North America has been much more efficient. My interest in the Canada forum is because I have family in Vancouver lower mainland area.

Take good care of yourselves - everyone - because somebody cares about you.

💛💛🕊💛💛

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Based on everything else they've done differently or later than other countries I would suggest that anything the UK does or doesn't do, under the present government, is not a good example to follow unless it's something close to universal.

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yeah you’re right they’ll just focus on 1, because why would they want to make it easier for people to do preliminary testing before taking a PCR slot and why would Canada want to support lower vax countries, feds have already shown they’re prepared to withdraw supplies from COVAX

just clicking through the UK news conference, Chris Whitty is reminding vulnerable people to get their 4th shot…. Not sure if that’s a typo or not lol I don’t recall there being anyone getting 4th shots? If it’s not a slip then we have a long year or 2 ahead of us

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I had a 3rd dose, but judging by this blurb, I may be getting a 4th sometime next year.

Third dose vs. booster dose
A third dose is not the same as a booster. For people who do not develop the same immune response to the first two doses of the vaccine, a third dose is needed to get a similar level of protection as others in the population.

For these people, receiving a third dose to complete the initial vaccine series can help individuals create antibodies to protect them from COVID-19.

A booster dose is an additional vaccine you may get later if the protection from the initial two-dose vaccine series begins to decrease over time. A booster gets immunity back up to a desirable level of protection for an extended period of time.

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So no actual information right now on what the travel restrictions will be. I have this feeling that they'll close the border as had been done previously, and there will be required PCR testing and 14-day isolation for land travel, and likely the same for Air travel too. I'd expect this to probably come into affect either Friday or next monday.

What annoys me is they are banging on about rapid testing, and yet they will not offer that instead of PCR at the border. Why not just allow people to use rapid test, if negative, all good, if positive, get PCR and isolate until you get a negative test. Maybe I'm missing something with that process though.

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Example of the "odd cases" from UK data in July:

Deaths of someone in their 50's (per 1 million population)
Vaccinated: 19 persons
Unvaccinated: 152 persons

Although a vaccinated person is far less likely to die from Covid than an unvaccinated, it isn't nearly as trivial as you suggest. At least for us that are over 40.

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anyone 18+ who is eligible for third dose / booster can book as of Monday 20th December. wait period between second dose and booster / third dose has been changed to three months as well.

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Canadians told to avoid nonessential international travel as Omicron spreads

​​​​​​https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/c...vel/index.html

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Yes that was good. One thing I might query from it, and maybe this was just my interpretation, was the suggestion that travel restrictions (involving South Africa) would be inappropriate or knee jerk and like a punishment.
We know the UK made a huge mistake in allowing continued travel from India, and was highly criticised for it, when the Delta variant emerged.

Since Omicron is already known to spread more quickly, I'd have thought South Africa being on a red list until more was known would be reasonable.

Some have described it as after the horse has bolted, but you don't keep the barn door open and allow other horses to bolt as well.

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That's a bit weird. The last line fits with what we've been told about protection waning.

I understand the idea that a "3rd dose" is needed for people for whom the usual two was less effective. But I've seen nothing about any category - age, health worker, underlying condition etc - needing three instead of two. Surely the only way of knowing that 2 wasn't enough would be by testing the level of protection that two gave an individual 2 weeks after they'd had the second dose. Wouldn't that involve a fair amount of routine testing and wouldn't we know about that?

Of course it's entirely possible that "breakthrough" cases - where someone has been double jabbed but still got covid - could be those for whom two wasn't enough. But A) that's "after the fact" and B) would surely have been given as the reason.
:confused:

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https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...0592892c9d.jpg

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it might be different out here in Wild West BC, but this is where I got the info from. Third dose was only for the elderly or people with certain conditions to boost up the 2nd dose.

Vaccine Registration and Eligibility

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Well bugger me. I found a Septemeber release for NB recommending a 3rd dose - immuno-compromised, chemo, dialysis and so on just as you say.
And yet on the most up to date info page it goes from 1st dose to 2nd dose to booster.
To be fair, if in that group one would likely know. I hope so. :unsure:

After having it "easy" for so long over here, NB is now 2nd and 3rd worst for some rates. :(

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I'm off to the UK on Friday.

I have no doubt that during this travel advisory we'll catch half a dozen politicians in Hawaii, Costa Rica and insert other exotic destinations as well as multiple overpaid civil servants.

I still freshly remember last year when Trudeau asked Canadians to stay home for Easter then got in his car and drove to another province to enjoy a cottage Easter egg hunt.

Enough is enough.

Hopefully I haven't missed Boris's Christmas Party this year.

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Or another way of putting that is that he was someone who crossed border between home and work and was therefore exempt when he returned home like all the others. ;)

It's not really on the same level as the other ones caught going away and other things like testing eyesight by seeing if a crash happens..

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Yeah, I giggled at the idea of crossing the river in Ottawa being like an exotic vacation; which side is the nice bit?

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So really there is more chance of dying in a car accident, (maybe not stretching to an air crash though) than a vaccinated person dying from covid....even less from this omicron variant, which is much more contagious but much weaker. (from what we know so far) it proves that the vaccine does work....even more so with this 3rd shot.

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Unfortunately those rules are for us brainwashed mortals only...and for the media to get all excited about, so they can pile on the doom and gloom. :rolleyes:

Totally agree... enough is enough...that what the vaccine was developed for so we can carry on with life and between us all build herd immunity

Hope you have great visit... I think you will make it in good time for Boris's Christmas party!! Either way have a good one!! :thumbsup:

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lol yes well there’s an article on CTV news that says the federal conservatives are free to travel as they please

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https://covid19-sciencetable.ca/onta...ratepermillion
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/british...7d140abe24.png
Recent COVID stats for Ontario.

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Thank you for posting the graphs. Very interesting to see the vaccinated vs unvaccinated.

2,421 cases in Ontario yesterday. 10K per day predicted by the end of Jan. Hopefully most will not be very sick as they have been vaccinated.

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We've decided to cancel our planned train trip across to Nova Scotia for Christmas.

We're due to leave on Monday, but covid increases everywhere, including in Nova Scotia, seem to make cancelling the wisest course, as we could face being quarantined at any of our overnight stops if not on our return home.

We're fully vaccinated and everything, and certainly Omicron seems to result in milder cases than other variants especially when vaccinated, but it is also often seems to be asymptomatice.

Not worth the worry and concerns.

We'll plan for some time next year.

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Wonder when Canada will get its first omicron death. Still only one so far in uk so there’s hope.

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Although it wasn't his home was it? ;). It wasn't his home at all.

I liked the recent one. A Day for Truth and Reconciliation where all the overpaid got a day off. The working class of course had to work and the Prime Minister went to Tofino on vacation because it was more important to him. Or is that another home to work thing for you?

I'm quite happy to ignore a word that comes out of his mouth. The worst leader Canada has ever had. The travel advisory is a distraction from the OECD's report that Canada will have the worst economic growth in the next 30 years in the developed world.

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yes and there’s reports coming out it was an “unvaccinated conspiracy theorist”.

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If I had to shut down my business in England because of one death and 65 people in Hospital, I'd be facking furious.

There are currently 65 patients in hospitals in England with the Omicron variants of coronavirus, according to the UK Health Security Agency.

However, the number of deaths remained unchanged at one.

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Brace yourself, i'm sure it's coming to Ontario and BC as well. Quebec's already started.