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-   -   Coronavirus (https://britishexpats.com/forum/maple-leaf-98/coronavirus-930602/)

Danny B Dec 21st 2021 9:19 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Siouxie (Post 13082919)
:confused: Stats for 21st December - they are updated daily...
https://www.nicd.ac.za/latest-confir...december-2021/

Agreed. People have been (and still are) dying left right and center from the Delta variant, but people are freaking out over this new variant that has 'only' killed 14 people worldwide so far.

Shouldn't we be thanking our lucky stars that Omicron takes over from Delta?

printer Dec 21st 2021 9:49 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Danny B (Post 13082934)
Agreed. People have been (and still are) dying left right and center from the Delta variant, but people are freaking out over this new variant that has 'only' killed 14 people worldwide so far.

Shouldn't we be thanking our lucky stars that Omicron takes over from Delta?

Yes its complete BS at the moment. BC shutting stuff down and going into panic mode while UK goes pubbing and partying while Boris monitors the situation despite massive numbers and many of his advisers not agreeing. Yes they may change things after Xmas but even the rather stern Scottish minister hasn't gone all out and shut stuff down as yet!

BristolUK Dec 21st 2021 11:30 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by printer (Post 13082945)
Yes its complete BS at the moment. BC shutting stuff down and going into panic mode while UK goes pubbing and partying while Boris monitors the situation despite massive numbers and many of his advisers not agreeing. Yes they may change things after Xmas but even the rather stern Scottish minister hasn't gone all out and shut stuff down as yet!

Scotland and Wales have already decided to have no crowds at football and rugby. Something Germany did a couple of weeks ago.

scrubbedexpat099 Dec 21st 2021 11:34 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
No problem in the US, we are ready to deal with whatever happens, ski resorts open, bars restaurants etc.

printer Dec 22nd 2021 12:17 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 13082956)
Scotland and Wales have already decided to have no crowds at football and rugby. Something Germany did a couple of weeks ago.

Not exactly the same as shutting down hospitality venues at this time of year, which they haven't done as yet unlike us. It is now pissing off the double and treble vaccinated in BC who have jumped through the hoops and got their vax passport so they could go to the gym, the pub, the clubs and travel. Now they cannot do any of those things except travel although the government is telling people they should not be travelling, certainly internationally, unless absolutely necessary.

old.sparkles Dec 22nd 2021 1:41 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian (Post 13082851)
Are you able to point us to anything that he said in that video that was inaccurate?

No idea - never watched it all.

I never said anything was inaccurate in the video - just on his youtube channel (he has previously attributed the use of ivermectin as reason for decline in covid in Japan for example (from wikipedia))

old.sparkles Dec 22nd 2021 2:05 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Danny B (Post 13082934)
Agreed. People have been (and still are) dying left right and center from the Delta variant, but people are freaking out over this new variant that has 'only' killed 14 people worldwide so far.

Shouldn't we be thanking our lucky stars that Omicron takes over from Delta?


Originally Posted by printer (Post 13082945)
Yes its complete BS at the moment. BC shutting stuff down and going into panic mode while UK goes pubbing and partying while Boris monitors the situation despite massive numbers and many of his advisers not agreeing. Yes they may change things after Xmas but even the rather stern Scottish minister hasn't gone all out and shut stuff down as yet!

I think you both agree that Omicron is highly transmissible - was it something like multiplies 70 times faster than the original in that video? Also, the R rate is believed to be 3 to 5, and some areas are seeing doubling in two days.

Now this may not be as deadly - but a small percentage of a large number is as significant as a larger percentage of a smaller number in terms of impacts on health care. Add into that, the number of people impacted (infected or close contacts) - that may not affect directly the number of hospitalisations, but will lead to reduced staffing (which can) - and this reduction can affect all workplaces placing added stress on employees (https://www.theguardian.com/culture/...losed-by-covid).

So, there are reasons to be cautious - and to encourage those who can be vaccinated to get vaccinated, and those eligible to get boosters. Wearing of masks indoors are a common sense approach, as is maintaining social distancing. And then see how it goes - and adjust measures as necessary.

printer Dec 22nd 2021 4:06 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by old.sparkles (Post 13082972)
I think you both agree that Omicron is highly transmissible - was it something like multiplies 70 times faster than the original in that video? Also, the R rate is believed to be 3 to 5, and some areas are seeing doubling in two days.

Now this may not be as deadly - but a small percentage of a large number is as significant as a larger percentage of a smaller number in terms of impacts on health care. Add into that, the number of people impacted (infected or close contacts) - that may not affect directly the number of hospitalisations, but will lead to reduced staffing (which can) - and this reduction can affect all workplaces placing added stress on employees (https://www.theguardian.com/culture/...losed-by-covid).

So, there are reasons to be cautious - and to encourage those who can be vaccinated to get vaccinated, and those eligible to get boosters. Wearing of masks indoors are a common sense approach, as is maintaining social distancing. And then see how it goes - and adjust measures as necessary.

I also read this very thing about serious staffing shortages across the UK and with this latest article you would assume that in fact they would be on it big time and no stone unturned to get this under control yet Boris so far has not done so and Nicola Sturgeon also has not gone all out as maybe expected. Of course having the history museum closed is nothing like having a bunch of hospitals closed or any other business that general public rely on daily yet that appears to be a possibility. With the current levels of cases over there (and that's only those that have been tested) this thing is already out of control and almost impossible to reign in now. Maybe they are sitting it out in the hope herd immunity finally takes a hold and things can continue to run because it seems right now that sickness isn't the problem as much as "what if" and by that i mean what if it's not just a cold/cough, maybe it's Omicron so i better stay home and if i get tested and it's positive then everyone i've been in contact with better stay home and all their contacts and so on which is a good thing when hospitals are overflowing with really sick people and deaths are mounting but not such a great idea if most of those isolating are totally fine. If we treated every flu season this way we would have this issue every year.

Paul_Shepherd Dec 22nd 2021 10:56 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Danny B (Post 13082934)
Agreed. People have been (and still are) dying left right and center from the Delta variant, but people are freaking out over this new variant that has 'only' killed 14 people worldwide so far.

Shouldn't we be thanking our lucky stars that Omicron takes over from Delta?

I said exactly the same thing the other day.... the sh!thead media and some other people are losing their minds over omicron and "case counts" I think as you say we should actually be thanking out lucky stars.... it overtaken a more deadly variant... who cares if 4000 peole caught a cold yesterday, its a little diferent to the actual deaths and hospitalisations that were being caused by Delta.... perspective seems to have gone clean out of the window.

Shard Dec 22nd 2021 11:40 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd (Post 13083036)
I said exactly the same thing the other day.... the sh!thead media and some other people are losing their minds over omicron and "case counts" I think as you say we should actually be thanking out lucky stars.... it overtaken a more deadly variant... who cares if 4000 peole caught a cold yesterday, its a little diferent to the actual deaths and hospitalisations that were being caused by Delta.... perspective seems to have gone clean out of the window.

The concern is that Omicron is highly transmissable and has slightly higher immune escape. That means, for example, instead of 10.000 infections there could be 100.000 infections (guesstimate numbers). Even if severity/lethality (hospitalizations) of Omicron is lower than Delta, say 0.1% vs 0.5% the impact of large numbers will be signifcant. In this example 10.000 x 0.5% = 50 hospitalizations (Delta) vs 100.000 x0.1% = 100 hospitalzations (Omicron).

For those that end up in hospital it will not be "a cold" it will be major body damage or death, and it will cost the public money to treat and care for these individuals. In addition, if the hospitals do paradoxically fill up because of the milder Omicron, there will be cancelled operations and treatements (eg. cancer, cardiac). That has happened and will happen again if the public is dismissive of the risk.

I'm not sure if you saw the post, but one of BE'ers in Nova Scotia reported on catching Covid and being seriously debilitated by long Covid for several months (at the time of her posting). Caution is the right approach.







dbd33 Dec 22nd 2021 11:54 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by old.sparkles (Post 13082972)

So, there are reasons to be cautious - and to encourage those who can be vaccinated to get vaccinated, and those eligible to get boosters. Wearing of masks indoors are a common sense approach, as is maintaining social distancing. And then see how it goes - and adjust measures as necessary.

This makes sense because the next variant may be more potent than the Delta one. We don't know when it's coming so we should be prepared.

dbd33 Dec 22nd 2021 12:01 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by printer (Post 13082961)
Not exactly the same as shutting down hospitality venues at this time of year, which they haven't done as yet unlike us. It is now pissing off the double and treble vaccinated in BC who have jumped through the hoops and got their vax passport so they could go to the gym

If there's a group of people it's difficult to care about, it's those who dress up in spandex and go and sculpt their bits in front of shared mirrors. People wanting bigger thighs can stay home and walk up and down the stairs. If they need people to see they can post to Grindr. Risking infection because you wanted strangers to pant on you, or you on them, is really very silly.

Danny B Dec 22nd 2021 2:44 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 13083043)
If there's a group of people it's difficult to care about, it's those who dress up in spandex and go and sculpt their bits in front of shared mirrors. People wanting bigger thighs can stay home and walk up and down the stairs. If they need people to see they can post to Grindr. Risking infection because you wanted strangers to pant on you, or you on them, is really very silly.

OK boomer.
Gyms closed, casinos open. Makes total sen$e.





Shard Dec 23rd 2021 12:08 am

Re: Coronavirus
 
Good quick video showing the Omicron growth and hospitals curves in the UK and London. UK data suggests low impact; London data suggests rising impact.


printer Dec 23rd 2021 12:11 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Danny B (Post 13083089)
OK boomer.
Gyms closed, casinos open. Makes total sen$e.

Exactly it's just gone overboard now. Todays Global news was reporting that South Africas surge has receded and hospitalizations remain on a reasonable level. They said the data coming out is it's more transmissible but much milder and this has been echoed by some scientist bods in UK also. Boris has still not announced any changes and now Joe Biden is telling all his people to enjoy the festivities providing your are vaccinated, meanwhile the doom merchants in BC press the panic button despite out good vaccination stats. Boosters are supposed to be a key defence which is why UK is going all out on this, meanwhile BC may start in January.
Who will care in January we would all enjoy a few extra days off work to self isolate;)

old.sparkles Dec 23rd 2021 1:48 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Shard (Post 13083202)
Good quick video showing the Omicron growth and hospitals curves in the UK and London. UK data suggests low impact; London data suggests rising impact.

https://youtu.be/BgyFpfMx05M


I think I heard that the vaccination rate in London was only around 60% to 65%, so that may be a factor.

Over here we are seeing rising numbers on the East coast (and most states now in lesser degrees) - and starting to see hospitalisations starting to climb, albeit slowly. Risk of needing hospital stay is 40% lower, which is not low enough given the increased number of cases.

Reports here also of increasing numbers of police, hospital staff, etc off work due to COVID too. Not sure if it is definitely omicron, but it is believed to be,

Shard Dec 23rd 2021 7:37 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by old.sparkles (Post 13083213)
I think I heard that the vaccination rate in London was only around 60% to 65%, so that may be a factor.

Over here we are seeing rising numbers on the East coast (and most states now in lesser degrees) - and starting to see hospitalisations starting to climb, albeit slowly. Risk of needing hospital stay is 40% lower, which is not low enough given the increased number of cases.

Reports here also of increasing numbers of police, hospital staff, etc off work due to COVID too. Not sure if it is definitely omicron, but it is believed to be,

Certainly there is a lower vax rate in London and that would be a factor. Having said that London's population is younger so rising hospitalization is a concern. It's still early days on Omicron, less than one month, so the data is just starting to emerge.




Gozit Dec 23rd 2021 1:54 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by printer (Post 13083203)
Exactly it's just gone overboard now. Todays Global news was reporting that South Africas surge has receded and hospitalizations remain on a reasonable level. They said the data coming out is it's more transmissible but much milder and this has been echoed by some scientist bods in UK also. Boris has still not announced any changes and now Joe Biden is telling all his people to enjoy the festivities providing your are vaccinated, meanwhile the doom merchants in BC press the panic button despite out good vaccination stats. Boosters are supposed to be a key defence which is why UK is going all out on this, meanwhile BC may start in January.
Who will care in January we would all enjoy a few extra days off work to self isolate;)

BC hasn't even started booster rollout? :ohmy:

Danny B Dec 23rd 2021 2:24 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
Omicron: Half of colds will be Covid, warn UK researchers.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59768366


Cheltonian Dec 23rd 2021 3:30 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by printer (Post 13083203)
Exactly it's just gone overboard now. Todays Global news was reporting that South Africas surge has receded and hospitalizations remain on a reasonable level. They said the data coming out is it's more transmissible but much milder and this has been echoed by some scientist bods in UK also. Boris has still not announced any changes and now Joe Biden is telling all his people to enjoy the festivities providing your are vaccinated, meanwhile the doom merchants in BC press the panic button despite out good vaccination stats. Boosters are supposed to be a key defence which is why UK is going all out on this, meanwhile BC may start in January.
Who will care in January we would all enjoy a few extra days off work to self isolate;)

In BC every double vaccinated adult 70 and over has had the opportunity to get the booster and two weeks ago the under 70's were starting to be contacted, i am 69 and got my booster shot on Monday 20th Dec.

BristolUK Dec 23rd 2021 4:05 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
It's funny how much has been forgoten.
Apart from getting Covid, there are three things that stand out in my memory from all the stuff we were told.
  • It was more damaging for older people or those with health conditions
  • We need to take steps to avoid health services being overrun; a problem for Covid patients and others
  • As the virus passes, it changes into different variants
From the BBC article

But a massive wave of infections would still mean many people needing hospital care, as well as lots of doctors and nurses being off sick with Covid.
So that's the first two taken care of then. As someone else said "a small % of a very high number can be more than a large % of a low number," and if medical staff are off sick or isolating, there's the overrun health services with more patients than it can deal with including those whose other checks and treatments cannot go ahead due to staff shortage.

And with the virus spreading far more quickly - no matter how mild it may be - there would appear to be a risk of faster rate of mutation, bring the third part into play.

Danny B Dec 23rd 2021 4:27 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
Omicron is a storm in a tea cup, look at these stats and tell me I'm wrong. 195 people in hospital, and 18 dead. All those other deaths you read about are from the previous delta variant.
https://assets.publishing.service.go...n_Overview.pdf

The biggest problem the world is facing right now is not from people dying of Omicron, but from people calling in sick and having to isolate which affects essential front line services.


BristolUK Dec 23rd 2021 6:19 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Danny B (Post 13083391)
The biggest problem the world is facing right now is not from people dying of Omicron, but from people calling in sick and having to isolate which affects essential front line services.

So get virus carriers to turn up for work and help spread an already fast spreading variant even faster and just leave it to chance as to whether that brings the next variant along more quickly, one that may be a lot worse immediately than this one but we don't discover that until it's taken a hold.

Well, it's a plan. But it sounds like one of those "it's so crazy it just might work" ones. ;)

Danny B Dec 23rd 2021 9:03 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 13083423)
So get virus carriers to turn up for work and help spread an already fast spreading variant even faster and just leave it to chance as to whether that brings the next variant along more quickly, one that may be a lot worse immediately than this one but we don't discover that until it's taken a hold.

Well, it's a plan. But it sounds like one of those "it's so crazy it just might work" ones. ;)

Most of us are sick to death of this never ending pandemic. I swear some people are looking forward to the next variant to come along just so that they can stay working from home a bit longer. I'd say we should look on the bright side and hope that this variant turns into Omnicold and fizzles out.

I'm outta here now till Jan 4th, Merry Christmas everyone!


dbd33 Dec 23rd 2021 9:40 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Danny B (Post 13083459)
I swear some people are looking forward to the next variant to come along just so that they can stay working from home a bit longer.

That's certainly an advantage but I expect it'll be short lived. I imagine few firms will want to pay for office space now that they know they don't need it and there will be no need of continuing covid to support working from home.

printer Dec 23rd 2021 11:25 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 13083467)
That's certainly an advantage but I expect it'll be short lived. I imagine few firms will want to pay for office space now that they know they don't need it and there will be no need of continuing covid to support working from home.

What do people who work from home do with their entitled sick days? Now the government have made it such that employees can legitimately get paid for so many sick days it's not like they can't "go to the office" since it's next to their bedroom. :lol:
My uncle was a civil servant way back and they used to get so many days paid sick a year and if he hadn't been ill he would take them off anyway as paid holiday. My father was disgusted at that idea.

dbd33 Dec 24th 2021 12:13 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by printer (Post 13083476)
What do people who work from home do with their entitled sick days?

I don't know but I suppose it's the same as vacation days, people save those up until HR says they have to take them and then they work while they're taking them; that hasn't changed with working from home. Personally I've never had any of either. This is a question really for someone who has a government job, former lancastrian or Danny B would be better placed to comment.

I do find it hard to fathom how someone could be too sick to work if it didn't entail leaving the house. I haven't heard of an example, the only cases of people losing work days since covid that I know of involved injury and being physically at the hospital. In that circumstance one wouldn't expect the person to do more than answer emails and txts.


BristolUK Dec 24th 2021 11:21 am

Re: Coronavirus
 
From my local newspaper carrying a Washington Post report.

AstraZeneca and Oxford making version of coronavirus vaccine that targets omicron

That's a bit strange isn't it? I mean, if it's just like having a cold and we can all go to work or out partying and nothing more involved why do it? I don't suppose it could be because there's actually more to it?

Nand Dec 24th 2021 12:06 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
Well, yes there is more to it .....$$$$$$$$.

dbd33 Dec 24th 2021 12:09 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 13083589)
From my local newspaper carrying a Washington Post report.

AstraZeneca and Oxford making version of coronavirus vaccine that targets omicron

That's a bit strange isn't it? I mean, if it's just like having a cold and we can all go to work or out partying and nothing more involved why do it? I don't suppose it could be because there's actually more to it?

I expect there is more to it but it's not strange for a drug company to develop drugs. If they could cure the common cold, they would. That's their business.

dbd33 Dec 24th 2021 12:14 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by Nand (Post 13083605)
Well, yes there is more to it .....$$$$$$$$.

That's not wrong. The electric car, the Hitachi Magic Wand, ska records, all world improving inventions created with profit in mind. Even inventing oxycontin for profit wasn't wrong and should have been a good thing.

Nand Dec 24th 2021 12:24 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 13083610)
That's not wrong. The electric car, the Hitachi Magic Wand, ska records, all world improving inventions created with profit in mind. Even inventing oxycontin for profit wasn't wrong and should have been a good thing.

Didn't say 'wrong', said 'MORE'! 😄

🐠 🐾 🕊 🐾 🐠

Shard Dec 24th 2021 1:15 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 13083610)
That's not wrong. The electric car, the Hitachi Magic Wand, ska records, all world improving inventions created with profit in mind. Even inventing oxycontin for profit wasn't wrong and should have been a good thing.

:lol:

Partially discharged Dec 24th 2021 2:11 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by printer (Post 13083476)
My uncle was a civil servant way back and they used to get so many days paid sick a year and if he hadn't been ill he would take them off anyway as paid holiday. My father was disgusted at that idea.

That notion also bugs me. I've been self employed for 26 + years. An attitude like that is not something I can fathom in my world. Reminds me of federal government people who have a year or so to go before they retire and get their pension and here in Ottawa they go on french language training, stretch it out to retirement time and then retire never having put the french training into practice.

BristolUK Dec 24th 2021 3:29 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by dbd33 (Post 13083609)
I expect there is more to it but it's not strange for a drug company to develop drugs. If they could cure the common cold, they would. That's their business.

It's strange to announce a drug that targets "just a cold" though. I mean why no announcement previously about a drug that targets a real cold? :lol:

printer Dec 24th 2021 10:23 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by BristolUK (Post 13083662)
It's strange to announce a drug that targets "just a cold" though. I mean why no announcement previously about a drug that targets a real cold? :lol:

Here we are 2021, we can treat a multitude of serious sometimes life changing diseases including new viruses but we still fail to successfully cure the common cold, or if you are male, life threatening flu. :rofl:

BristolUK Dec 25th 2021 1:53 am

Re: Coronavirus
 

Originally Posted by printer (Post 13083709)
Here we are 2021, we can treat a multitude of serious sometimes life changing diseases including new viruses but we still fail to successfully cure the common cold, or if you are male, life threatening flu. :rofl:


Siouxie Dec 29th 2021 5:30 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
Quebec have bought in restrictions more 'restictive' than Ontario. (for example, maximum of 6 people to gather in Quebec > 10 in Ontario
https://www.quebec.ca/en/health/heal...sures-in-force
https://cdn-contenu.quebec.ca/cdn-co...ur-anglais.pdf

https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/1...nse-to-omicron


Updated 'Omicron' Travel restrictions / advice in place: https://travel.gc.ca/travelling/heal...th-notices/226
https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/tr...ons/exemptions


sharkus Dec 29th 2021 8:57 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
back-to-school plan information apparently due in next few days. Something tells me that they'll either extend the break by a week or two, or go to remote learning. Does not leave much time for those who go back on the 3rd. Plus given the BS that has come before, with saying "schools will be open" then less than 24 hours later saying "oh, schools closed", I won't believe it until the 3rd actually rolls round.

Jingsamichty Dec 29th 2021 9:28 pm

Re: Coronavirus
 
Just tested positive myself. Very minor symptoms - fatigue, minor cough - certainly nothing I'd have taken so much as a day off work for in any other circumstance. However, rules be rules and I'm self-isolating for 10 days. It's put a real spanner in our New Year plans but in the big scheme of things that's a trifle.

I've had 2 jabs and got the booster just a week ago, although to be fair we have certainly been fairly actively socialising until now. No-one else in the family/social group has tested positive (yet). I'm reminded of the time in Calgary in 2008/9 when my wife alone got swine flu which totally wrecked her for about 3 weeks yet none of the rest of the household got it.

On the plus side, if most people who are testing positive have as minor symptoms as me then this Omicron would seem to be little more than an inconvenience. I'm fully for taking all measures necessary to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed but I've yet to see evidence that there is a corresponding increase on hospitalisations from the fully vaccinated population.


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