Shard

You could catch the virus on the plane or in the airport, so actually, self-isolation would still be prudent.

Gozit

I could also catch it at the shopping mall (which are now open) and I don't self isolate when I come back from there.

dbd33

Why do you go to shopping malls?

Shard

The shopping mall is in Canada so that's irrelevant.

BristolUK

But there's the difference. There are things needed from shopping, just like you could be run over by a bus crossing the street if there's something needed on the other side. How vital is that trip?

In this part of Canada we've got off lightly. A large part of that - as with New Zealand - is the travel restrictions in place between the provinces. A quarter of our cases and the only two deaths in NB are linked with a single person visiting Quebec. The provinces here are just opening up to each other - not to Quebec though. NB, PEI and Newfoundland all have very low figures. NS population is only 200,000 more than NB but their figures are completely out of whack in comparison. The NS death total is almost half the total number of cases in NB.

Gozit

I can guarantee there is absolutely nothing necessary that you need from the mall. That is all purely indulgent shopping. Essentials can be picked up from groceries/pharmacies.

To answer the question of why i'm going to the mall? Because it's open and i'm comfortable with the risk. Yes I did wear a mask while there. But the mall is full of people indoors and so is the airport. What is the increased risk vector? No one has answered that yet.

Gozit

Why? We all know that COVID knows no borders. So the risk vector of travelling somewhere within Canada should be the same as travelling somewhere outside of Canada. 14 day isolation should not be arbitrarily required for a return from ALL countries. I can drive to Toronto right now with absolutely 0 restrictions, and have a higher probability of being exposed to COVID there, yet I don't have to self isolate on return to my small town where I live. But if I get on a plane and go somewhere that has virtually no COVID I still have to self isolate. It makes no sense.

Shard

Increased risk vector? Imagine a confined metal tube containing several hundred fellow humans in close proximity all breathing the same air for several hours. Spot the difference.

Stumpylegs

Aside from the aforementioned risk of catching it in the airport etc. (and whilst I appreciate you could catch it in the mall, quarantining post mall isn't practicable, quarantining post international travel is).

Its a double edged sword, you would quite happily travel to countries with a lower rate of infection than you, but countries with a lower rate of infection than you- possibly don't want you because they have a lower rate of infection. NZ probably wants no one now (definitely don't want us Brits after the last pair that went over there!) in the same way you wouldn't want someone from those high infection rate countries coming round your neighbourhood without quarantine.

Not to mention do you have faith in other countries reporting figures? todays rate of infection in Canada and the UK is remarkably similar (253 in 37million versus 519 in 68 million) yet the UK is handling the whole thing awfully - either the figures aren't right, the wild differences in strategy isn't that effective, or handling the virus has little to do with the actual figures.

BristolUK

Don't you have grocery and pharmacy stores in the mall where you are? As well as essential stuff for communication/internet and clothing it's quite good to have them all close together to avoid multiple trips.

dbd33

It wasn't a disease related question but a general one. I haven't been into a shopping mall since the 1980s and so I wondered why other people go to one.

Shard

The infection level is hard to compare, because of different testing regimes. On the other hand the death rate is a bit more, shall we say, final...and correlates to the infection level. On this basis, Canada is doing much better at virus control that the UK.

Canada 230 deaths per million
UK 650 deaths per million

Gozit

You can get on a plane and go across Canada and be in a metal tube for just as long as it takes to get to London and you still don't have to self isolate in all provinces. The arbitrary line in the sand is drawn at leaving the country and that is the frustrating part. If it were done purely on facts and science, you'd have to self isolate upon returning to Ontario from Quebec, but not from the Marshall Islands (no confirmed COVID but the country does have a COVID-19 response in place.)

Gozit

We do, but shopping malls were closed until a few weeks ago and people survived by going to the ones that weren't in malls. That is a fair point though.

Ah. Fair enough. I really only go when I have a specific need that can't be accomplished by online shopping. In that case it was the apple store to get a phone repaired, and only because I didn't want to call in (I hate call centres) and wait for the phone to be shipped off, etc. Wanted it done that day.

Shard

The whole point of having a quarantine is to errect a barrier between what is deemed the outside of a defined inside. In this case, Canada is "inside". So your examples of Canadian shopping malls and Canadian flights are totally irrelevant. It may well be that the risk is low if coming from somewhere like Malta, but it's not zero, and therefore there remains a rationale to require quarantine.