Coronavirus

Old Sep 22nd 2020, 2:47 pm
  #2746  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
.... They are also facing a shortage of recycled paper fiber as less people working in offices printing stuff appears to have also led to a shortage of recycled paper fiber. ....
The demand for copier/ printer paper is waaay down compared to a decade ago anyway - I remember when there was a weekly visit from the paper guy who would wheel a cart around the office floor dropping off several cases of 10-12 reams of paper at each printer and copier. By the time I left the office for the last time January 2019, a case of paper would last months, and the numerous printers and copiers had been replaced by a couple of printer-copiers, which mostly stood idle. I doubt I printed anything more than once or twice a quarter, and even then only a page or two, not an entire document of 10-50 pages. Obviously working from home I don't print anything work related these days.

A direct result of this, and the parallel collapse in demand for printed newspapers, was that paper manufacturer Bowater sold of thousands of acres of forests in Eastern NC, which it had used to supply pulpwood for paper and it was clear that the demand for paper had gone away, permanently. I presume this has been the case across North America and around the world.

AFAIK The only increase in demand for paper products is for cardboard, drvien primarily by Amazon and other on-line sellers.

Last edited by Pulaski; Sep 22nd 2020 at 2:49 pm.
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Old Sep 22nd 2020, 3:01 pm
  #2747  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
There's also the knock-on effect of other things not being treated if hospital time is taken up treating people with covid as well as the extra time/resources into preventing spread from covid patients to others.

For myself, having reported a complete lack of strength in my legs to my doctor - I couldn't walk 10 minutes without resting nor ride my bike anymore - I was referred for a circulation test (ABI, I believe) and an appointment was lined up in March.

It was then on hold when non urgent stuff was cancelled and finally rearranged. But then because my stepdaughter had covid symptoms, her employer insisted on her contacting the covid line which led to another covid test - her second. Negative but my appointment had to be cancelled again. I'm rebooked but the same thing could easily happen again - either symptoms for one of the four of us in the house or the whole thing gets cancelled again.

In the meantime, difficulty in walking 10 minutes has now become extreme discomfort at 5 minutes plus pain. The long term implications - or maybe there is no 'long term' - are concerning especially as the problem could have been identified and remedied 6 months ago.

For many I imagine it's even worse, so it's not just about what covid can do to people. Anything that reduces its spread - even if it's not immediately fatal - will help in other areas.
That sounds tough on the walking side.

It does seem that there is a large faction that totally discount the mayhem of a severe outbreak. The 'lockdown is bad for mental health' argument is often put forth, without fully considering what impact a relative's death or prolonged incapacitation has on mental health.

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Old Sep 22nd 2020, 3:06 pm
  #2748  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty View Post
UK announces pubs and restaurants to close at 10pm. I would be amazed if this would make the slightest bit of difference. It stinks of "trying to be seen to do something, anything" but without actually trying to do something, anything. .....
Yeah, that seemed like a joke to me when I read it last night - I can't imagine it will make a scrap of difference, but it is clear that the public at large have no appetite for another lock-down.
Originally Posted by Shard View Post
I don't think Covid was ever pitched as Ebola league. It's nevertheless highly infectious (since it transmits in the asymtomatic) and it seems as if there is no ongoing immunity, once contracte and recoved. There is also emerging the condition which they are calling 'long Covid' namely ongoing long-term complications from the disease. I think the madness would be to permit the disease to spread in society, .....
Agreed, the long-term consequences for covid-19 infection is potentially very concerning, and the only thing that seems to be certain at the moment is that the virus remains in your body for months after the initial infection, and nobody knows what the long term consequences of that are going to be. A German study a few months ago found a high percentage of "recovered" individuals had a covid-19 infection in their heart muscle that had caused tissue inflamation. The long term, or even medium term consequences of this, and lingering virus infection in other organs, is unknown, but for me that means that it is worth minimizing the liklihood of getting infected even if the disease is "mild in most cases" and "most people 'fully' recover", in the short term, at least.

Last edited by Pulaski; Sep 22nd 2020 at 3:32 pm.
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Old Sep 22nd 2020, 3:27 pm
  #2749  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

478 now, the numbers are steadily rising
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Old Sep 22nd 2020, 4:42 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Jerseygirl View Post
478 now, the numbers are steadily rising
What and where is 478?
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Old Sep 22nd 2020, 5:10 pm
  #2751  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Danny B View Post
What and where is 478?
I assume it's new cases in Ontario, up from 425 on the CBC website, which may want updating.
That's over half the new cases in Canada.

Last edited by caretaker; Sep 22nd 2020 at 5:14 pm.
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Old Sep 22nd 2020, 5:27 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Danny B View Post
What and where is 478?
yes it is Ontario. Sorry I was using my phone while at the dentist.

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-re...tawa-1.5114883
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Old Sep 22nd 2020, 6:21 pm
  #2753  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

This is good news for Ontario though, resulting in a case positivity rate of 1.4 per cent, more tests lead to more cases, but positivity rate is important and still quite low in Ontario.

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
The demand for copier/ printer paper is waaay down compared to a decade ago anyway - I remember when there was a weekly visit from the paper guy who would wheel a cart around the office floor dropping off several cases of 10-12 reams of paper at each printer and copier. By the time I left the office for the last time January 2019, a case of paper would last months, and the numerous printers and copiers had been replaced by a couple of printer-copiers, which mostly stood idle. I doubt I printed anything more than once or twice a quarter, and even then only a page or two, not an entire document of 10-50 pages. Obviously working from home I don't print anything work related these days.

A direct result of this, and the parallel collapse in demand for printed newspapers, was that paper manufacturer Bowater sold of thousands of acres of forests in Eastern NC, which it had used to supply pulpwood for paper and it was clear that the demand for paper had gone away, permanently. I presume this has been the case across North America and around the world.

AFAIK The only increase in demand for paper products is for cardboard, drvien primarily by Amazon and other on-line sellers.

Apparently the wood pulp to make toilet paper and such is also in short supply due to increased demand, double whammy for the manufactures.

Maybe it's time US and Canada wean off toilet paper.

I am printing a tiny bit more this year due to medical appointments being mostly via phone, and lab requisitions being emailed and then I need to print it to take it to the lab. We might buy a ream of paper once every 2 or 3 years.

Only places I have worked that use large sums of paper are hotels, on my 8 hour shift alone, I would go through a full pack of 500 sheets, mostly due to the audit, CRA is old fashioned so can't store the daily audit paperwork electronically, everyday hundreds of sheets of paper printed and used, then put away likely never to be seen again for 5 years unless CRA wants to see it, then it gets shredded.

The amount of paper hotels go through in a day is crazy. In a big hotel the emergency guest list can be 200 pages and that is printed generally 3 times per day, mandatory in the event of a fire/evacuation/emergency so emergency crews have an idea of who might still be in the building, no way to really digitize this.


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Old Sep 22nd 2020, 6:31 pm
  #2754  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
The amount of paper hotels go through in a day is crazy. In a big hotel the emergency guest list can be 200 pages and that is printed generally 3 times per day, mandatory in the event of a fire/evacuation/emergency so emergency crews have an idea of who might still be in the building, no way to really digitize this.
PDF to a dedicated iPad ?
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Old Sep 22nd 2020, 6:43 pm
  #2755  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
This is good news for Ontario though, resulting in a case positivity rate of 1.4 per cent, more tests lead to more cases, but positivity rate is important and still quite low in Ontario.




Apparently the wood pulp to make toilet paper and such is also in short supply due to increased demand, double whammy for the manufactures.

Maybe it's time US and Canada wean off toilet paper.

I am printing a tiny bit more this year due to medical appointments being mostly via phone, and lab requisitions being emailed and then I need to print it to take it to the lab. We might buy a ream of paper once every 2 or 3 years.

Only places I have worked that use large sums of paper are hotels, on my 8 hour shift alone, I would go through a full pack of 500 sheets, mostly due to the audit, CRA is old fashioned so can't store the daily audit paperwork electronically, everyday hundreds of sheets of paper printed and used, then put away likely never to be seen again for 5 years unless CRA wants to see it, then it gets shredded.

The amount of paper hotels go through in a day is crazy. In a big hotel the emergency guest list can be 200 pages and that is printed generally 3 times per day, mandatory in the event of a fire/evacuation/emergency so emergency crews have an idea of who might still be in the building, no way to really digitize this.
It pisses me off that in 2020 we still expect secondary school & Uni students to carry around several large text books (I'm talking 200+ pages) instead of having an electronic version available. I get that there is big money in university books, but for the love of God, please make them into copyright protected PDFs instead of making students bring them to School every day. My Daughters backpack weighs about 50lbs.



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Old Sep 22nd 2020, 7:05 pm
  #2756  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
PDF to a dedicated iPad ?
It's been several years since I had any paper given to me at a hotel - it's all been electronic, sign a touch-screen, bill provided electronically.

Surely guest lists could be stored in the cloud - and with the right information could download them before they even arrived at the hotel they'd been called to?
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Old Sep 22nd 2020, 7:14 pm
  #2757  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

So back to the topic of the thread... CORONAVIRUS .....

478 new cases in Ontario https://www.ontario.ca/page/how-onta...d-19#section-0
  • There are a total of 47,752 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in Ontario reported to date.
  • Compared to the previous day, this represents:
    • An increase of 478 confirmed cases (percent change of +12.5%)
    • An increase of 3 deaths (percent change of +50%)
    • An increase of 196 resolved cases (percent change of +10.1%)
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Old Sep 22nd 2020, 7:31 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Shard View Post

It does seem that there is a large faction that totally discount the mayhem of a severe outbreak. The 'lockdown is bad for mental health' argument is often put forth, without fully considering what impact a relative's death or prolonged incapacitation has on mental health.
I think the problem is Sweden is touted in the british media about as not locking down, having less deaths per head than the UK etc.

Personally I'm indifferent to the whole situation, I'm not going out as much, socialising a lot less and wearing a mask more than normal (I wash my hands too, but that's not a marked change!!).

I would feel better with a proper shut down for 3 weeks, and have a hard reset (possibly harder than the first lock down) get case numbers right down, kill a lot of the slow, silent spread etc. or a crack on and let it run its course (Which i don't think is the right path - but likewise don't think we can continue as we are for 5+ years, as if this is ever mutating, will it mutate or grow immunity to any vaccine, like the flu). I feel like this halfway house is the worst of both worlds and generally very devisive between groups of people (white vs BAME, rich vs poor, left vs right wing).
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Old Sep 22nd 2020, 9:49 pm
  #2759  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Stumpylegs View Post
I think the problem is Sweden is touted in the british media about as not locking down, having less deaths per head than the UK etc.

Personally I'm indifferent to the whole situation, I'm not going out as much, socialising a lot less and wearing a mask more than normal (I wash my hands too, but that's not a marked change!!).

I would feel better with a proper shut down for 3 weeks, and have a hard reset (possibly harder than the first lock down) get case numbers right down, kill a lot of the slow, silent spread etc. or a crack on and let it run its course (Which i don't think is the right path - but likewise don't think we can continue as we are for 5+ years, as if this is ever mutating, will it mutate or grow immunity to any vaccine, like the flu). I feel like this halfway house is the worst of both worlds and generally very devisive between groups of people (white vs BAME, rich vs poor, left vs right wing).
Here where I live in small town BC, the affects of a 3 week shutdown would be worse than one or two people dying from COVID. I know it sounds callous to say such a thing, but it's true for me.
Interior health has had very few COVID deaths, people get sick and they recover fine.

Seeing as how Canada is so spread out, if things spiral out of control in one area, I would be in favour of local lockdowns involving road blocks. Much like they did in Wuhan. Sounds harsh but it's better to piss off a few hundred thousand locals and not millions who live miles away.



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Old Sep 22nd 2020, 9:59 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Danny B View Post
Here where I live in small town BC, the affects of a 3 week shutdown would be worse than one or two people dying from COVID. I know it sounds callous to say such a thing, but it's true for me.
Interior health has had very few COVID deaths, people get sick and they recover fine.

Seeing as how Canada is so spread out, if things spiral out of control in one area, I would be in favour of local lockdowns involving road blocks. Much like they did in Wuhan. Sounds harsh but it's better to piss off a few hundred thousand locals and not millions who live miles away.
Aye - just bear in mind I'm still on the wrong side of the Atlantic, don't think I'd share the same shut the country down view if the country was 20 times the size with 1 road in and out of a lot of towns and had such differing infection levels . Here we've got local lockdowns that aren't lockdowns, and a bunch of semi sensible restrictions which are being abused.

Here we've basically got a lot of the bad of a shutdown but not much of the benefit. Retail and hospitality is on its arse, you can't mix 2 semi sensible families of 4 who live next door to each other and households mix with school and work etc. But 6 households can go the pub together and keep the spread going.

Those that are abiding by the rules or altering their lives because of the virus wouldn't be much worse off by a total shutdown, but it would stop those gaming the current rules.
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