chris955

Some good economic news for the OP.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/id...30823?irpc=932

dunroving

Well, I just read halfway through the first of these threads and can say not only was Patrick as funny as I remember but he brought out the hilarious side of other people too, even when he was arguing.

Now I have to go away and change my pants ...

between two worlds

I arrived post-Patrick, or at least wasn't reading the threads he was posting on...these links are hilarious, dunroving, thank you for them!

Much more entertaining than all this back-and-forth about whether the UK is going to Hell in a hand-basket or not!

Sally Redux

"Leading to question, why do so many americans know so little about anything?"

jemima55

Yes, the threads have a light tone to them, unlike this one!

davros1984

I am sorry but I have to disagree with you.

Whilst it is somewhat subjective, 150K GBP is not unaffordable, that is ridiculously low for a house in this day and age. I also accept that we live in a day that not everyone can afford to buy a house - although the general majority should be able to.

You just have to go on to rightmove and there are so many towns and cities in the UK where you can easily buy property within a short commute that are 150K GBP or less (and yes - you even have public transport options!!).

Yes, 150K wouldnt happen in London, but the average salary in London is higher than the rest of the UK. In my field of work, the average job is at least 20K GBP per year better paid. Based on that, I make the figure 250K (5 times the salary, with the extra 20K added in) for London. Again you can go onto right move and there are 3-bed houses in the city that I can buy for that amount.

If necesssary I can post a whole serious of links for 150K houses in and around: Bristol, Leeds, Birmingham, Exeter, Swindon, Bath, Southampton, Staffordshire. Notthngham, Derby - I could go on.

The same applies for 200-250K in the South East pocket of the UK. Fleet, Basingstoke, Other pockets in Hampshire all have good housing with good commuter links into London. No doubt there are cheaper properties north, east and south of London also.

Bud the Wiser

There's a good article on wiki.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afforda...United_Kingdom

If you don't like wiki information go down to references and you'll find a few links to support the article.

The house price to earnings ratios have increased dramatically over the past three decades. Looking to buy a house that is below median price with earnings that are above the median earnings doesn't give you a true picture of affordability in the housing market. Also, there is a huge difference in being able to buy a house and being able to afford a house purchase. The subprime mortgage crisis proves that and I also feel the recent help to buy scheme is going the same way.

Creating a feel good factor by increasing house values is a cynical way to buy votes IMHO.

Sally Redux

Two sides to the coin aren't there.

Homeowners are probably happier when prices are high. Many parts of the US have seen prices in free-fall with consequent foreclosures.

Are you just trying to work this through in your mind, or what?

Zen10

Hallelujah! Wish I could get that highlighted text to flash as well.

Bud the Wiser

But we're not discussing homeowners we're discussing whether or not home ownership is affordable to those who don't own their own home. In the UK that is not the US. Different market all together.

Giantaxe

Other things being equal you would expect the price to earnings ratio to have increased over the past three decades. Most people buy with a mortgage, and interest rates have declined hugely over that time period. I recall paying over 15% in the early '80's. Now we're talking 3% or less. So in the current interest rate environment, people can afford to borrow more for a given amount of income. A more interesting comparison is versus rents. You can't get a mortgage to pay rent, so this is a more stable indicator. Plus, you have to live somewhere. I don't doubt that that measure will also show decreasing affordability, but not to the extent that the price to income ration does.

And I agree completely about the help to buy scheme.

davros1984

Completely agree with your last sentence. the rest I do fully appreciate what you are saying. house prices have gone up and salaries have not kept up. This is a global problem though and the days of being able to own your house without too much pain are long gone. I read an interesting article yesterday on the death of the middles class:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...middle-classes.

My point is that compared to other developed countries (or colonies) the UK isn't as bad as them in comparison, NZ and Australia being prime examples. Thus the situation in the UK is not as bad as people make it out to be in comparison to other places.

Personally I am staggered that such an overcrowded island has significantly lower priced houses and far superior standards of housing in comparison to a country that is virtually empty and very low quality houses.

TheEmperorIsNaked

No. We are discussing whether the UK is really that bad. Home ownership is just part of it. It is the entire lifestyle.

TheEmperorIsNaked

THAT!

(You might be done over on the 'Mail link though. We intellectual giants don't like the Mail!)

davros1984

I read articles from a number of papers including the mail, independent, telegraph and guardian. I would say the mail is actually quite good at reflecting how a lot of middle class and hard working class people feel. that article is certainly an interesting one and reminds me somewhat of bud the Weisers comments.

What do you mean by THAT? Do you agree with what you highlighted in blue? It is true that NZ and Aussie homes reflect what we would call beach houses or garden sheds in terms of their build quality.