TheEmperorIsNaked

That's the trouble with discussion-one has to be really clear, and it has been pointed out by the FOK that my posts are indecipherable!

THAT = Wot you writ.

Yes I read whatever the hell I want. I had The Times in the UK, but (though I never pay for the damn things) also love reading women's mags in waiting rooms and the like. It is always interesting to see how much they distorted the truth, because those mags are usually old.

I even watch Today Tonight and A Current Affair-flicking back and forth, which are dismissed as total trash. (Watching building stuff on the ABC as well!)
They mostly are, but they are now the only voice for the disaffected, who are certainly 'used' by the progs-but can use right back.

I'm a pragmatist-it's better than nowt for the powerless and generally low income in society.

We're a funny lot. Whether we care to admit it or not, we create a profile of ourselves that is usually higher than the reality! One of the ways to do it, is to be seen to be reading and watching the 'right' things!

To the topic!!
This will rage on it appears. It is the glass half full/empty thing. For me it is quite simple: if the UK is in a total meltdown of disaffection and poverty-with people flooding out of the country....and of course it is being taken over by those people; it would make global news-people would be rioting-there would be crisis talks in Government lasting for many many hours bunker style.

To suggest that this is not happening incurs the opinion that one has a rosy view of the UK or has scads of cash.

It is not the case. GB has always been a target. We are on an expat site; that's migration; that's migration generally to get away from our country of origin- mostly UK?....because we were dissatisfied; thus the negativity.

This negativity extrapolates to seeking out links to justify the view,-but also to justify the decision to leave, and to be critical of those who return, because such views regularly pop up on 'return' forums, (though they are reasonably restrained on BE).

To defend the return decision, equally links are also put up. Somewhere inbetween is the reality.

MY reality is the 'wet finger' principle. I am talking with people in the UK who in varying degrees are happy/content/grizzly-but wouldn't leave. It is simply not an issue for them-millions of them-it isn't an issue!

It is par for the course for it to be an issue on an expat site though, and I freely admit to being in the camp that is bloody fed up with the need to play the UK down-not occasionally,- that I think is human,-but all the damn time. It says more about them then it does the UK.

Look how many pages! Look at them. The need to disparage is compelling. Equally is the need to counter this.

Yorkieabroad

cliff1961

There is work out there in the UK but Guarntee they will mainly go to the younger generation in their 20-30 yrs old, if your over 40 chances are slim over 50 you just well forget it!

You can claim Jobseekers allowance which is £71 per week, claiming disability benefits you just well forget it, the assesment the government has running now is Disgusting and "GENUINE" Disabled uncapable of work are loosing their benefits.

If you rent accomadation and have any spare bedroom you will have to pay bedroom tax approx £20 for each spare bedroom if you claim benefits.

Jobseekers allowance the government are creating new schemes forcing people to work for no extra money other than £71 per week if you refuse this offer your money will be "Sanctioned" the government are bringing out new schemes all the time which are illegal. Some jobseekers have taken them to court and won their cases.

Wait for another 3-4 years it will get "WORSE".

TheEmperorIsNaked

This is a very fair point. It is imposed on those with least resource by those who do not restrict themselves in any way-I understand the odious Cameron is on his 5th holiday this year.

Those who demand fiscal restraint/a good healthy economy, don't give a monkey's testicles that it is taken from those who can least afford it. Their justification is that there are so many rorting the system, that they deserve it.
It makes it easier for such people to kick people whilst they are down, because they (those people) are responsible for their own condition.
In fact it is only a small minority who rort the system, unlike Corporate UK and polishituns in general, who rort the system in ever increasing plague proportions.

I could write this about Australia where these 'shituns, are only second to the highest paid 'shituns on the globe.
It is worse in GB only because of population density.

And it is getting WORSE for that particular section of society.

Greed is good is the domain of the Conservative and the conservative-which encompasses both Parties today.
The worst offenders by far is the Labour/Labor Party who have totally deserted their voter base.

That's conservatism for you.

The survival of the fattest.

davros1984

I think people should be thankful that they get anything out of the Government. Here in NZ, if I were to lose my job, I'd get zero so ultimately I'd die - one way or another.

So yes, its down to me to provide for myself. I know the UK isn't easy as companies are very unforgiving. Be thankful though that you at least get something! The amount of grief I received from Student Loans over not making payments for three months (even though I had gone 5 years without a single missed payment) - as I was moving to the other side of the world was unbelievable.

Totally far points around greed being good - it is not. Ambition and success is to be applauded, but not filthy greed that destroys people's jobs and generally screws the majority of us over.

There are far too many people on benefits though. Having cars paid for you because you are fat or unable to move properly due to laziness needs to stop (like that woman on the first episode of benefits britain 1949).

I don't think there is a plain answer in sight. Until the human race becomes less materialistic and seeks reward in other forms than money, nothing is majorly going to change. One thing that I like about the NZ culture is that apart from a small few, most don't care about flash cars or wealth. They want to make the most of the great outdoors, the clean air and most of all spend good time with their friends and family.

One thing that sways me toward the Conservatives over Labour at this time is one simple principle: support those who work hard, take personal responsibility and strive in life. Labour at this time just want to keep pouring money on those who cannot be bothered.

cliff1961

The main problem is there are millions who are on benefits "Genuine Disabled" who were never asked to be born disabled and so many are "Lazy Scroungers" but the only problem is as long as you claim benefits you are all tarred with the same brush which is wrong. You cannot class a Genuine disabled person in a wheel chair the same as a lazy scrounger.
We have soldiers who have returned from war with spinal injuries and lost both legs and the Government takes benefits from him which is wrong he fought for his country and deserves the benefit.

You cannot compare one country to another as over here in the Uk the Government created HIGH Unemployment closing collieries and steel works leaving millions unemployed but have no intentions creating employment for those on benefits to go into work, but they are paying BILLIONS to get them off benefits where it could be better used in creating employment to get them into work.

There has been hundreds of people who have committed suicide as they lost benefits and no work to go into and see no hope of survival.

There has been 100o's of genuine disabled with the likes of serious heart conditions lost their benefits forced to go to work and within a week have been found dead!

The Government Labour or Conservative are as bad as each other !

chris955

Interesting, my wife just squeezes into the last age group and got a job at the first interview she had.
People have been saying it will get worse for 30 years but all our friends are better off than they have ever been.
Let me guess though, are you a Labour voter?

chris955

Do you have a link to a reputable source (not the Daily Mail) with details of these 1000's of disabled people that die within a week of starting work?

cliff1961

No i do not support neither labour or conservative!
Just look up yourself and you will find plenty on people dying after being forced into work.

http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/investigat...ailing-in.html

chris955

I think the danger is making a statement like 1000's die within a week of going to work, this clearly isnt the case and regardless of how you feel about getting people back to work it doesnt help the cause.

Pistolpete2

I thought the point of posters on here responding to the OP was to provide useful information.

You are painting an image here that it is easy to find work in the UK - after just one interview in spite of possible age concerns.

What you omit to state, but have done elsewhere, is that it took your wife forever to get that interview, so long in fact that she was even desirous of returning to Australia. Now why would you omit that fact if you are supposed to be 'participating' in the thread i.e. providing facts useful to others.

Of course, for all we know she could be a nuclear physicist and there was at last a job going in her field. I'm not trying to be funny but just showing how useless many generalisations can be, particularly regarding employment prospects.

Employers are crying out for some skills and qualifications in some regions and this has a tremendous bearing on opportunity. For example, it would not be helpful for a poster to say they found work easily when in fact they were in the field of engineering in the oil & gas industry, looking in Aberdeen.

cliff1961

I will admit my mistake i intended to write per year not per week, regardless what is going on is wrong. decisions are made and even their own Party do not like what damage is being done to the country.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...-benefits.html

bigglesworth

There has been hundreds of people who have committed suicide as they lost benefits and no work to go into and see no hope of survival.

There has been 100o's of genuine disabled with the likes of serious heart conditions lost their benefits forced to go to work and within a week have been found dead!

The Government Labour or Conservative are as bad as each other ![/QUOTE]


The article you reference seems to say the exact opposite.
The numbers retaining benefit and those being reclassified are roughly the same - 22% and 21% respectively.
BUT 1100 of those whose benefits were reduced died, whilst 5300 of those who did not have their benefits reduced died.
Bear in mind that nobody lives forever. Annual mortality is about 600 people per 100,000 in the UK. There are over 2.1 million people on ESA, so 21 percent is over 440, 000. All other things being equal (which clearly they are not) in an eight month period you would therefore expect there to be 1770 deaths in those reclassified, and 1857 in those who retained benefit. Not surprisingly, given that the latter have serious health problems, the death rate amongst those continuing to receive benefit is far higher than the average across the UK.

What I find utterly astonishing is that it appears from your article that those being reclassified have in fact a far higher chance of survival than the general public.

It would appear therefore that the headline is completely at odds with the text, and that seriously unwell people were left on benefits, whilst substantially healthier people (who were less likely to die than the general population, which one must take as an indication of good health) are being encouraged to find work. (Whilst incidentally still receiving benefit).

Or am I missing something?

roaringmouse

Interesting observation.. wonder why he chose to omit that part.

chris955

But you are happy for someone to say if you are 50 forget about getting a job? It took my wife best part of 2 months to find the job she has, probably the longest ever in her life but hardly disastrous.