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Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Old Sep 20th 2013, 4:30 pm
  #856  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by Sally Redux
I still think the answer to the original question as posed is "no". It is not as bad as the hyperbolic descriptions of boarded-up shops, roaming knife gangs, bodies piling up in A&E or old people's homes, Sharia law, you name it.
I agree with you 100% on that count (I made the same point maybe 20 or 30 pages back).

I think a large number (maybe most) of the responses haven't taken that into consideration, though - they are simply responding to the vernacular title of the thread. And the longer the thread goes on, taking on a life of its own, the further we seem to get from the original question.
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Old Sep 20th 2013, 4:31 pm
  #857  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by Sally Redux
Indeed.


Isn't the requirement 18,600 or something similar? I would have thought a civil service job would pay that.

8,000 a year would be incredibly low nowadays.
I thought it was £24K, it must have gone down. I think my old grade starts at £14K now, I was only Administrative Officer (next step up from pleb level). That's NICS, of course, in England it might be different. I was on £13.2K at the highest before I left and that was after 3 years. If I were to be reinstated I'd be on the bottom again (ooer) and the pay scales are different now.
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Old Sep 20th 2013, 4:34 pm
  #858  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by dunroving
I agree with you 100% on that count (I made the same point maybe 20 or 30 pages back).

I think a large number (maybe most) of the responses haven't taken that into consideration, though - they are simply responding to the vernacular title of the thread. And the longer the thread goes on, taking on a life of its own, the further we seem to get from the original question.
Yes you did, but others had lost sight of that.
Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing
I thought it was £24K, it must have gone down. I think my old grade starts at £14K now, I was only Administrative Officer (next step up from pleb level). That's NICS, of course, in England it might be different. I was on £13.2K at the highest before I left and that was after 3 years. If I were to be reinstated I'd be on the bottom again (ooer) and the pay scales are different now.
You would have more skills now though, would you not be able to be appointed higher up?

(Not trying to make you move )
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Old Sep 20th 2013, 4:44 pm
  #859  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by Sally Redux
Yes you did, but others had lost sight of that.


You would have more skills now though, would you not be able to be appointed higher up?

(Not trying to make you move )
I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with the direction the thread has taken though - in fact I don't think it would have gone on for one tenth as long if we were still discussing the very first post/question.

I would guess most people looking objectively at the exact question would say the answer is no (but I'd also guess some would add "it's not particularly great for many people, either").

The thread seems to have moved on to the more general "How good/bad are things in the UK?", which I think is a much more interesting and informative question for people considering a move back than "Do you think my relatives are exaggerating how bad it is?"

I don't think the OP has posted here in yonks so my guess is his question has been answered many, many pages back.
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Old Sep 20th 2013, 4:45 pm
  #860  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by Sally Redux
Yes you did, but others had lost sight of that.


You would have more skills now though, would you not be able to be appointed higher up?

(Not trying to make you move )
I could certainly apply again at Executive Officer II and have another stab at the aptitude test. That's as high up as A-levels alone will get you at entry level. That probably starts closer to £18K now. The skills won't matter as such unless they have changed their application procedures from when I last applied.

It's that or roll the dice in the private sector, while keeping my fingers crossed that NATS start hiring ATC operatives again, because that job will carry a much higher salary than the silly service.
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Old Sep 20th 2013, 4:51 pm
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by dunroving
I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with the direction the thread has taken though - in fact I don't think it would have gone on for one tenth as long if we were still discussing the very first post/question.

I would guess most people looking objectively at the exact question would say the answer is no (but I'd also guess some would add "it's not particularly great for many people, either").

The thread seems to have moved on to the more general "How good/bad are things in the UK?", which I think is a much more interesting and informative question for people considering a move back than "Do you think my relatives are exaggerating how bad it is?"

I don't think the OP has posted here in yonks so my guess is his question has been answered many, many pages back.
Fair point.
Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing
I could certainly apply again at Executive Officer II and have another stab at the aptitude test. That's as high up as A-levels alone will get you at entry level. That probably starts closer to £18K now. The skills won't matter as such unless they have changed their application procedures from when I last applied.

It's that or roll the dice in the private sector, while keeping my fingers crossed that NATS start hiring ATC operatives again, because that job will carry a much higher salary than the silly service.
It's good to have options.
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Old Sep 20th 2013, 4:55 pm
  #862  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing
I could certainly apply again at Executive Officer II and have another stab at the aptitude test. That's as high up as A-levels alone will get you at entry level. That probably starts closer to £18K now. The skills won't matter as such unless they have changed their application procedures from when I last applied.

It's that or roll the dice in the private sector, while keeping my fingers crossed that NATS start hiring ATC operatives again, because that job will carry a much higher salary than the silly service.
Under the new regulations, can't you combine a salary lower than the threshold with some savings, in order to meet the criteria?

Different public sector jobs probably have different practices but I'd have thought you would be unlikely to be dumped back at the lowest rung on the payscale, surely?
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Old Sep 20th 2013, 4:55 pm
  #863  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by bigglesworth
As you very well know, and as I alluded to in my earlier post, the lower rate of unemployment in the USA is entirely due to huge numbers simply stopping looking for work. The only statistic that matters is the number and percentage of people in work.

To refresh your memory - UK 73.6 percent labour force participation. USA 63.2 percent. Despite the higher rate of growth in the population.
Indeed. The level of economic non-participation in the US is a major problem. Additionally, many of those non-participants don't have health insurance and hence limited access to healthcare. People tend to think that the poor get government-funded healthcare in the US, but only four states provide Medicaid coverage for adults without minor children. A lot of people end up at the mercy of getting sick, including several friends who are in the ranks of the long-term unemployed. At least the unemployed in the UK have unchanged access to the NHS. I would say almost unequivocally that being poor in the US is a much more painful experience than being poor in the UK.
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Old Sep 20th 2013, 4:56 pm
  #864  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
Indeed. The level of economic non-participation in the US is a major problem. Additionally, many of those non-participants don't have health insurance and hence limited access to healthcare. People tend to think that the poor get government-funded healthcare in the US, but only four states provide Medicaid coverage for adults without minor children. A lot of people end up at the mercy of getting sick, including several friends who are in the ranks of the long-term unemployed. At least the unemployed in the UK have unchanged access to the NHS. I would say almost unequivocally that being poor in the US is a much more painful experience than being poor in the UK.
Couldn't agree more.
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Old Sep 20th 2013, 4:59 pm
  #865  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by Sally Redux
It's good to have options.
Yeah, it is. The irony is that around the time my wife started theorising on 'how would it work if we moved' was around the time I started to think it might not be the right thing to do anymore

In reality, all things considered I'd be silly to throw away a good job like the one I have now. In just under a year, I've had a 9% raise and lots more responsibility than when I started so I feel like I have to stick around to see how it goes ...

Originally Posted by dunroving
Under the new regulations, can't you combine a salary lower than the threshold with some savings, in order to meet the criteria?
Honestly, I haven't been following it that closely since the requrement has been put into place so my understanding was probably woefully limited as it was.

We have no savings to speak of though.

Originally Posted by dunroving
Different public sector jobs probably have different practices but I'd have thought you would be unlikely to be dumped back at the lowest rung on the payscale, surely?
It is my understanding that where I was working (NI Civil Service - I don't think the department matters but it was DHSS), they put you back on the bottom. That's what happened to my mum when she was reinstated after 15 years. Actually, she ended up having to drop a grade as well or she'd have had a longer wait for a post to come up.
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Old Sep 20th 2013, 5:02 pm
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by dunroving
Under the new regulations, can't you combine a salary lower than the threshold with some savings, in order to meet the criteria?
I believe it's an "either income or savings" equation.
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Old Sep 20th 2013, 5:03 pm
  #867  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
I believe it's an "either income or savings" equation.
I'm not sure, but from browsing through that part of BE, I think you can combine.
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Old Sep 20th 2013, 5:07 pm
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by Sally Redux
I'm not sure, but from browsing through that part of BE, I think you can combine.
I'm sure I read some formula - the savings amount is something like 4 x the salary amount, so I think if you were, say, £5k short of the salary amount, you could "make it up" by having 4 x £5k = £20k in savings. (I made the 4x thing up, but I am pretty sure that was the principle I read in several posts).

I'm way behind on this things though, as it doesn't affect me.
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Old Sep 20th 2013, 5:09 pm
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by dunroving
I'm sure I read some formula - the savings amount is something like 4 x the salary amount, so I think if you were, say, £5k short of the salary amount, you could "make it up" by having 4 x £5k = £20k in savings. (I made the 4x thing up, but I am pretty sure that was the principle I read in several posts).

I'm way behind on this things though, as it doesn't affect me.
Yes I'm not up on it either, but what you've written was also my impression of how it works.
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Old Sep 20th 2013, 5:16 pm
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by Sally Redux
Yes I'm not up on it either, but what you've written was also my impression of how it works.
Here's the definition. I only scanned it briefly but it looks like they divide your savings by the number of years until you have to make an application for indefinite leave to remain. Then you have to make a fresh application and meet the requirements anew:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/si...df?view=Binary

"An amount based on the cash savings above £16,000 held by the applicant.s partner, the applicant or both jointly for at least the 6 months prior to the date of application and under their control. At the entry clearance/initial leave to remain stage and the further leave stage, the amount above £16,000 must be divided by 2.5 (to reflect the 2.5 year or 30-month period before the applicant will have to make a further application) to give the amount which can be added to income. At the indefinite leave to remain stage, the whole of the amount above £16,000 can be added to income"
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