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Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Old Aug 30th 2013, 10:37 pm
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

[QUOTE=huddm;10878474]
Originally Posted by martinw01908 View Post
Its 6-7 times the average salary locally to by the average local house... so no houses are not affordable

Prices need to fall by 50% to be affordable in relation to the normal 3 times salary. Only then will the UK recover.

"Average price of a home is now £250,000… that’s NINE times the typical salary


What Is the Average Mortgage in the UK?
Answer

The average UK mortgage is £112,000 for a new house purchase with the average income of new mortgage holders being £40,000 per annum. The average deposit paid on a new house is 25% of the mortgage value of the house and this is £37,000 and one incurs a 14.6% average interest payment as the proportion of income.

Looking at the maths the average new UK mortgage is 2.8 times the mortgage holders income.

When my wife and I brought our first home in the late 1980's we had to put down a 25% deposit, so to me 25 years later there has been no change.

I live in a house valued a 25% higher than the noted UK average a now have a mortgage to income ratio of 1:1. At 21 years I made UK average wage, but would not every consider a £250K house in today's money. We actually purchased our first home( 2 bed flat) which today would cost us £70-80K where we currently live. Not everyone in the UK has to buy their first home for £250K!

Hudd
Those figures of 40K etc suggest that only the very well paid can afford a house and only those with a large deposit too
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Old Aug 30th 2013, 10:41 pm
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by Giantaxe View Post
As I've pointed out before on this thread, this isn't a particularly useful way of looking at it because it doesn't take account of mortgage interest rates. I was paying over 15% in the early '80's; now rates are under 3% or so. A better measure is house prices to rents, because (i) you can't take out a mortgage to pay your rent, and (ii) everyone has to live somewhere. I don't doubt that UK property is overvalued, but I think you're looking at the wrong measure to judge by how much.
It was 3 times when rates were at more average levels of 6-7%. All those buying in at cheap rates and high prices will be in for a shock when rates return to 6%. But this is why lenders require the big deposits, if people haven't got them, then HTB is going to make even worse when they are struggling to pay the mortgage and now have to pay back the HTB government loan
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Old Aug 30th 2013, 10:56 pm
  #753  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

I've been reading this thread with great interest. The question I have regarding housing is as follows: does the UK govt still have the first time buyer and/or new buyer program?

Also if the answer is yes to the aforementioned question then does the program require a 3 year residency in the UK for returning expats?
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Old Aug 30th 2013, 11:09 pm
  #754  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

[QUOTE=martinw01908;10878527]
Originally Posted by huddm View Post

Those figures of 40K etc suggest that only the very well paid can afford a house and only those with a large deposit too
I do not think £40K is a high family income, see below:
Average Family has a blue Ford and £39,000 a year? Yes, you're Mr and Mrs Average
By DAILY MAIL REPORTER
PUBLISHED: 02:08, 9 October 2012 | UPDATED: 10:53, 9 October 2012
307 View
comments
The average modern family earns £39,000 a year, owns a blue Ford and goes to bed at 10.23pm, a study has revealed.
Researchers who carried out a detailed examination of modern life also found they enjoy five hours of television and three hours of quality time together each day.
They also enjoy takeaways twice a month, but argue five times a day - usually over what to watch on television.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2dUcBlzRl
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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Old Aug 30th 2013, 11:34 pm
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

That's a family income, two people on 20k each. In the past an average house cost the average wage of the average man. The wife did not need to work so she would stay at home to look after the children, which is far better for the family unit, the children and no child care costs to pay.
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Old Aug 30th 2013, 11:40 pm
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by Brigette View Post
I've been reading this thread with great interest. The question I have regarding housing is as follows: does the UK govt still have the first time buyer and/or new buyer program?

Also if the answer is yes to the aforementioned question then does the program require a 3 year residency in the UK for returning expats?
Yes it does. And I think the rules are very lax, minimal checks - so even foreigners arriving here can still qualify, so an expat surely must.
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Old Aug 30th 2013, 11:52 pm
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by martinw01908 View Post
That's a family income, two people on 20k each. In the past an average house cost the average wage of the average man. The wife did not need to work so she would stay at home to look after the children, which is far better for the family unit, the children and no child care costs to pay.
Yes, "the wife" should stay at home.
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Old Aug 30th 2013, 11:57 pm
  #758  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by martinw01908 View Post
Yes it does. And I think the rules are very lax, minimal checks - so even foreigners arriving here can still qualify, so an expat surely must.
Thanks for the response. Feel much better now
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Old Aug 31st 2013, 7:40 am
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

[QUOTE=huddm;10878557]
Originally Posted by martinw01908 View Post

I do not think £40K is a high family income, see below:
Average Family has a blue Ford and £39,000 a year? Yes, you're Mr and Mrs Average
By DAILY MAIL REPORTER
PUBLISHED: 02:08, 9 October 2012 | UPDATED: 10:53, 9 October 2012
307 View
comments
The average modern family earns £39,000 a year, owns a blue Ford and goes to bed at 10.23pm, a study has revealed.
Researchers who carried out a detailed examination of modern life also found they enjoy five hours of television and three hours of quality time together each day.
They also enjoy takeaways twice a month, but argue five times a day - usually over what to watch on television.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2dUcBlzRl
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Average family income has not been used for a long time since it is very skewed by the rich at the top and/or the poor at the bottom so it doesn't give a very accurate picture of the average family. Average family income is calculated by totaling all the families income in a country and dividing that by the number of families. Up until about 5 years ago, OECD and most countries used medium family income to try to get a better picture of what the average family lives like. Medium family income is that half of the families have more than that income and half have less than that income. During the past 5 years, international organizations and most countries started using medium family equalized disposable income to try to get a better picture.

The differences can be very significant depending on which figures are used.

US:

Average Family Income: $82,000
Medium Family Income: $50,000
Medium Family Equalized Disposable Income: PPP$ 29,000

UK:

Average Family Income: £39,000
Medium Family Income: £25,000
Medium Family Equalized Disposable Income: PPP$ 25,000

The reason PPP$ are used is that it compensates for currency exchange rate fluctuations when trying to compare incomes between countries. If PPP$ were not used, it would appear that the British would be significantly poorer at a currency exchange rate of $1.50 to the £ compared to $2.00 to the £ but that is not true. I couldn't find the £ figure for the UK for Medium Family Equalized Disposable Income is the reason I used PPP$.

Therefore if average family income is used, for most developed countries that is reflecting families around the 65-70 percentile group.

Medium Family Income or Medium Family Disposable Income also has a lot to be desired since it doesn't take into account distribution of wealth (the GNI index) and other factors.

Most developed countries have seen a stagnant growth in real medium family income over the past 30 years and I don't think the UK has done significantly better or worse that most other developed countries. However real average family income has grown in most developed countries over the past 30 years with most of that going to the top 10%.

Last edited by Michael; Aug 31st 2013 at 8:38 am.
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Old Aug 31st 2013, 8:35 am
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

[QUOTE=huddm;10878474]
Originally Posted by martinw01908 View Post
Its 6-7 times the average salary locally to by the average local house... so no houses are not affordable

Prices need to fall by 50% to be affordable in relation to the normal 3 times salary. Only then will the UK recover.

"Average price of a home is now £250,000… that’s NINE times the typical salary


What Is the Average Mortgage in the UK?
Answer

The average UK mortgage is £112,000 for a new house purchase with the average income of new mortgage holders being £40,000 per annum. The average deposit paid on a new house is 25% of the mortgage value of the house and this is £37,000 and one incurs a 14.6% average interest payment as the proportion of income.

Looking at the maths the average new UK mortgage is 2.8 times the mortgage holders income.

When my wife and I brought our first home in the late 1980's we had to put down a 25% deposit, so to me 25 years later there has been no change.

I live in a house valued a 25% higher than the noted UK average a now have a mortgage to income ratio of 1:1. At 21 years I made UK average wage, but would not every consider a £250K house in today's money. We actually purchased our first home( 2 bed flat) which today would cost us £70-80K where we currently live. Not everyone in the UK has to buy their first home for £250K!

Hudd
Indeed, the idea that the average family buys a 250k house is ridiculous and if home ownership was so out of reach how does the UK have such a comparitively high home ownership rate?
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Old Aug 31st 2013, 8:36 am
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Oh, I forgot to mention that after 51 pages the answer to the original question is still NO.
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Old Aug 31st 2013, 8:42 am
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

As compared to?
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Old Aug 31st 2013, 8:58 am
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by Beaverstate View Post
As compared to?
As compared to what the OP relatives say it is. The answer to that question is almost always No because we Brits love to moan about how bad things are. No wonder the Aussies call us whingers.
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Old Aug 31st 2013, 9:04 am
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

The most puzzling thing for me is why all this is necessary.

Economic management is as much a factor for the individual as it is for the country.
Good or bad is in the eye of the beholder whether they are well off/comfortably off/or even struggle to make ends meet.

Yes it's easier if one has the dosh; one can live a better lifestyle, with far less of the day to day problems that are more likely to occur for those in the lower socio economic areas.

But there would be so many of that latter group who actually do not want to leave the UK. (Yes I DO know; many can't), but those suburbs would be vastly depopulated if people who have a tougher financial time all wanted to leave, it is not impossible to do unless totally impoverished. So many millions of people want to remain in the UK.
Yet others are trying by any method to get there!


The point is-
UK: some like it, some like it less.

...........and given that the question was: 'Is the UK that bad?' Well it can't be that bad, can it?

Australia: some like it, some like it less.
US: ditto
Canada: ditto
Etc: ditto

51 pages have been a contest. Largely between two countries.

It's daft.
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Old Aug 31st 2013, 7:17 pm
  #765  
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Default Re: Is the situation in the UK really that bad?

Originally Posted by dunroving View Post
As compared to what the OP relatives say it is. The answer to that question is almost always No because we Brits love to moan about how bad things are. No wonder the Aussies call us whingers.
A huge number of people in the world don't have access to clean drinking water. The relative size of your TV in various 1st world countries sort of makes this all a moot point really. To be fair, I need to remind myself of this point too.

Last edited by Caruthers; Aug 31st 2013 at 7:21 pm.
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