How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Jun 14th 2003, 12:02 pm
#136
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Mxsmanic wrote:
>
> Padraig Breathnach writes:
>
> > Is this typical of public service employment in the US?
>
> It is typical of all employment in the U.S., except that most companies
> don't allow people to donate sick leave to each other.
Nor do they give them anything so generous as ten days!
>
> Padraig Breathnach writes:
>
> > Is this typical of public service employment in the US?
>
> It is typical of all employment in the U.S., except that most companies
> don't allow people to donate sick leave to each other.
Nor do they give them anything so generous as ten days!
Jun 14th 2003, 12:07 pm
#137
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Mxsmanic wrote:
>
> EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) writes:
>
> > ... I was in college so long ago that teaching public
> > school music was still regarded as a "secure" career!
>
> What is a "secure" career? I don't think I've ever heard that term.
When I was young, "job security" was not considered a myth - if one went
to work for the government (public school teachers ARE "government
employees" in that sense), or for a large company, one could assume one
had a job there for as long as one chose to stay. (Barring dismissal
"for just cause" - i.e. seducing a student or embezzlement or something
like that.)
>
> EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) writes:
>
> > ... I was in college so long ago that teaching public
> > school music was still regarded as a "secure" career!
>
> What is a "secure" career? I don't think I've ever heard that term.
When I was young, "job security" was not considered a myth - if one went
to work for the government (public school teachers ARE "government
employees" in that sense), or for a large company, one could assume one
had a job there for as long as one chose to stay. (Barring dismissal
"for just cause" - i.e. seducing a student or embezzlement or something
like that.)
Jun 14th 2003, 12:11 pm
#138
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Marie Lewis wrote:
>
>
> Of course, this had to be medically upheld, and was. But How on earth
> do Americans recover from major surgery if they are expected to be back
> at work so quickly?
Oh, they take the required time to recover - they just do it without
pay! (Once they've used up their vacation allowance, that is - some
vacation!)
>
>
> Of course, this had to be medically upheld, and was. But How on earth
> do Americans recover from major surgery if they are expected to be back
> at work so quickly?
Oh, they take the required time to recover - they just do it without
pay! (Once they've used up their vacation allowance, that is - some
vacation!)
Jun 14th 2003, 12:19 pm
#139
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Marie Lewis wrote:
>
> In article ,
> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" writes
> >Or the fact that
> >"those long vacations" were unpaid, which was the reason not only
> >students but also teachers sought summer jobs!)
>
> I do not understand this: is the salary not spread over the 12 months of
> the year in the USA?
As someone else pointed out, it is now - it was not, then.
>
> If not, why do teachers not put something aside to pay for the unpaid
> time?
Most of them did - and earned interest on it (which of course they
cannot do if it has not yet been paid them). Also, many of them used
those summer months to travel or take classes to improve their knowledge
and teaching skills. I was simply pointing out the inconsistencies
between my mother's perception of teaching and the reality. (Actually,
the main reason I did not become a teacher was that I hoped to become an
opera singer, and the wear and tear on my voice, teaching in a classroom
all day, left it too fatigued to practice singing in the evening.)
>
> In the UK, salaries for teachers are divided by 12 so there is never any
> "unpaid" time.
> --
> Marie Lewis
>
> In article ,
> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" writes
> >Or the fact that
> >"those long vacations" were unpaid, which was the reason not only
> >students but also teachers sought summer jobs!)
>
> I do not understand this: is the salary not spread over the 12 months of
> the year in the USA?
As someone else pointed out, it is now - it was not, then.
>
> If not, why do teachers not put something aside to pay for the unpaid
> time?
Most of them did - and earned interest on it (which of course they
cannot do if it has not yet been paid them). Also, many of them used
those summer months to travel or take classes to improve their knowledge
and teaching skills. I was simply pointing out the inconsistencies
between my mother's perception of teaching and the reality. (Actually,
the main reason I did not become a teacher was that I hoped to become an
opera singer, and the wear and tear on my voice, teaching in a classroom
all day, left it too fatigued to practice singing in the evening.)
>
> In the UK, salaries for teachers are divided by 12 so there is never any
> "unpaid" time.
> --
> Marie Lewis
Jun 14th 2003, 12:25 pm
#140
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Mxsmanic wrote:
>
> Marie Lewis writes:
>
> > But they have terrible working practices where they
> > more or less have to work where they are sent.
>
> Like the rest of the working world, you mean?
No, not quite. In the private sector, if you REALLY object to being
sent wherever, you can find another job with another company (without
uprooting your family to another city). If you are a school teacher,
you work for the school system, so changing employers is not quite that
easy, and at the very least, involves a move to another jurisdiction.
>
> --
> Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
>
> Marie Lewis writes:
>
> > But they have terrible working practices where they
> > more or less have to work where they are sent.
>
> Like the rest of the working world, you mean?
No, not quite. In the private sector, if you REALLY object to being
sent wherever, you can find another job with another company (without
uprooting your family to another city). If you are a school teacher,
you work for the school system, so changing employers is not quite that
easy, and at the very least, involves a move to another jurisdiction.
>
> --
> Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Jun 14th 2003, 12:27 pm
#141
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Gordon Forbess wrote:
>
> On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 18:42:51 +0200, Mxsmanic
> wrote:
>
> >Gordon Forbess writes:
> >
> >> You forgot add the smiley to this.
> >
> >It was not a joke.
>
> Then it was simply incorrect. Perhaps you are unaware of the term
> "wrongful discharge" or that a herd of attorneys specialize in such
> cases.
>
> >> If there is a permanent partial disability, the
> >> employer is required (under the Americans with
> >> Disabilities Act) to make accommodations to the
> >> employee who is able to resume work. These can be
> >> as simple as a special ergonomic chair to a complete
> >> change of job description to allow telecommuting,
> >> for example.
>
> >I'm sure that many waitresses and cashiers will be happy to learn of
> >this.
>
> I wouldn't make the assumption that waitresses and cashiers are any
> less well-informed about the ADA, workers comp, and disability
> insurance than someone posting to a travel group.
Probably better informed, if they belong to a union, as most restaurant
employees (at least in large cities) are required to do.
>
> Gordon
>
> On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 18:42:51 +0200, Mxsmanic
> wrote:
>
> >Gordon Forbess writes:
> >
> >> You forgot add the smiley to this.
> >
> >It was not a joke.
>
> Then it was simply incorrect. Perhaps you are unaware of the term
> "wrongful discharge" or that a herd of attorneys specialize in such
> cases.
>
> >> If there is a permanent partial disability, the
> >> employer is required (under the Americans with
> >> Disabilities Act) to make accommodations to the
> >> employee who is able to resume work. These can be
> >> as simple as a special ergonomic chair to a complete
> >> change of job description to allow telecommuting,
> >> for example.
>
> >I'm sure that many waitresses and cashiers will be happy to learn of
> >this.
>
> I wouldn't make the assumption that waitresses and cashiers are any
> less well-informed about the ADA, workers comp, and disability
> insurance than someone posting to a travel group.
Probably better informed, if they belong to a union, as most restaurant
employees (at least in large cities) are required to do.
>
> Gordon
Jun 14th 2003, 12:30 pm
#142
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Mxsmanic wrote:
>
> No matter how well informed they may be, it does no good if they can't
> afford lawyers. In the U.S., justice is the best that money can buy.
As is medical care, in most cases!
>
> No matter how well informed they may be, it does no good if they can't
> afford lawyers. In the U.S., justice is the best that money can buy.
As is medical care, in most cases!
Jun 14th 2003, 1:36 pm
#143
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 17:27:40 -0700, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
wrote:
>> >Gordon Forbess writes:
>> I wouldn't make the assumption that waitresses and cashiers are any
>> less well-informed about the ADA, workers comp, and disability
>> insurance than someone posting to a travel group.
>Probably better informed, if they belong to a union, as most restaurant
>employees (at least in large cities) are required to do.
What cities are you talking about? Not LA or San Diego. The
information is widely available, and belonging to a union has nothing
to do with it.
Gordon
wrote:
>> >Gordon Forbess writes:
>> I wouldn't make the assumption that waitresses and cashiers are any
>> less well-informed about the ADA, workers comp, and disability
>> insurance than someone posting to a travel group.
>Probably better informed, if they belong to a union, as most restaurant
>employees (at least in large cities) are required to do.
What cities are you talking about? Not LA or San Diego. The
information is widely available, and belonging to a union has nothing
to do with it.
Gordon
Jun 14th 2003, 3:02 pm
#144
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
In article ,
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:
> Padraig Breathnach wrote:
> >
> > [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
> >
> > >Get this - I used to work at a Federal agency here in Washington. We got
> > >10
> > >days (i.e., two weeks) of sick leave per year.
> > >
> > >From time to time someone would have a particularly serious injury or
> > >illness and would exceed their sick leave allotment. On their behalf, a
> > >co-worker could petition the human resources department to make them
> > >eligible to receive sick leave donations from other people on staff, who
> > >would have to give up their sick leave in order for this suffering person
> > >to
> > >continue to be paid while they were in hospital. A friend or office-mate
> > >would walk around from door to door in our building trying to solicit
> > >donations of a few hours of sick time from each of us.
> > >
> > >It was like something out of a cheesy parody.
> > >
> > I am shocked.
> >
> > Is this typical of public service employment in the US?
>
> As with many factors in our "great democracy", America is an ideal place
> to live IF (a) you have a secure source of income, sick or well, and (b)
> you have adequate health insurance which does not depend upon your
> remaining employed. Unfortunately, most of us have never noticed that,
> from being the envy of the rest of the world (after WW2) we have become
> the "poor relation" in terms of most of the things that really matter.
> Maybe the average family has more "modern conveniences" (aka useless
> gadgets), but in most ways, our "quality of life" is not nearly that of
> our European counterparts.
I don't think you have the experience to make such a broad statement.
jay
Sat, Jun 14, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
>
> >
> > PB
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:
> Padraig Breathnach wrote:
> >
> > [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
> >
> > >Get this - I used to work at a Federal agency here in Washington. We got
> > >10
> > >days (i.e., two weeks) of sick leave per year.
> > >
> > >From time to time someone would have a particularly serious injury or
> > >illness and would exceed their sick leave allotment. On their behalf, a
> > >co-worker could petition the human resources department to make them
> > >eligible to receive sick leave donations from other people on staff, who
> > >would have to give up their sick leave in order for this suffering person
> > >to
> > >continue to be paid while they were in hospital. A friend or office-mate
> > >would walk around from door to door in our building trying to solicit
> > >donations of a few hours of sick time from each of us.
> > >
> > >It was like something out of a cheesy parody.
> > >
> > I am shocked.
> >
> > Is this typical of public service employment in the US?
>
> As with many factors in our "great democracy", America is an ideal place
> to live IF (a) you have a secure source of income, sick or well, and (b)
> you have adequate health insurance which does not depend upon your
> remaining employed. Unfortunately, most of us have never noticed that,
> from being the envy of the rest of the world (after WW2) we have become
> the "poor relation" in terms of most of the things that really matter.
> Maybe the average family has more "modern conveniences" (aka useless
> gadgets), but in most ways, our "quality of life" is not nearly that of
> our European counterparts.
I don't think you have the experience to make such a broad statement.
jay
Sat, Jun 14, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
>
> >
> > PB
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Jun 14th 2003, 4:13 pm
#145
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) writes:
> Probably better informed, if they belong to a union,
> as most restaurant employees (at least in large cities)
> are required to do.
Required? What happened to right-to-work laws?
So all McDonald's employees are unionized?
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> Probably better informed, if they belong to a union,
> as most restaurant employees (at least in large cities)
> are required to do.
Required? What happened to right-to-work laws?
So all McDonald's employees are unionized?
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Jun 14th 2003, 4:15 pm
#146
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) writes:
> In the private sector, if you REALLY object to being
> sent wherever, you can find another job with another
> company (without uprooting your family to another city).
> If you are a school teacher, you work for the school
> system ...
Only if you want to. There are private schools, too, even in France.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> In the private sector, if you REALLY object to being
> sent wherever, you can find another job with another
> company (without uprooting your family to another city).
> If you are a school teacher, you work for the school
> system ...
Only if you want to. There are private schools, too, even in France.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Jun 14th 2003, 4:41 pm
#147
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Go Fig writes:
> I don't think you have the experience to make such
> a broad statement.
What does this ad hominem argument contribute to the discussion?
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> I don't think you have the experience to make such
> a broad statement.
What does this ad hominem argument contribute to the discussion?
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Jun 14th 2003, 6:28 pm
#148
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Mxsmanic wrote:
>Go Fig writes:
>> I don't think you have the experience to make such
>> a broad statement.
>What does this ad hominem argument contribute to the discussion?
Ad feminem, surely.
PB
>Go Fig writes:
>> I don't think you have the experience to make such
>> a broad statement.
>What does this ad hominem argument contribute to the discussion?
Ad feminem, surely.
PB
Jun 14th 2003, 8:55 pm
#149
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
In article ,
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" writes
>Marie Lewis wrote:
>> Of course, this had to be medically upheld, and was. But How on earth
>> do Americans recover from major surgery if they are expected to be back
>> at work so quickly?
>Oh, they take the required time to recover - they just do it without
>pay! (Once they've used up their vacation allowance, that is - some
>vacation!)
I find this totally inhuman.
--
Marie Lewis
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" writes
>Marie Lewis wrote:
>> Of course, this had to be medically upheld, and was. But How on earth
>> do Americans recover from major surgery if they are expected to be back
>> at work so quickly?
>Oh, they take the required time to recover - they just do it without
>pay! (Once they've used up their vacation allowance, that is - some
>vacation!)
I find this totally inhuman.
--
Marie Lewis
Jun 14th 2003, 8:58 pm
#150
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
In article , Jim Ley
writes
>No, they can choose to do a job in a region_if they can get a job
>there_ otherwise they have to do something else to be able to live
>where they want. You may say that the French teachers are limited to
>"work in teaching" or "work where they want" but it's still a choice,
>and one shared by many professions.
This is nit-picking. I was writing about the conditions of work for
teachers. If they leave the profession, they are no longer teachers and
so outside the remit of my comments. Clear?
> You could equally say that
>teaching in the UK is fortunate in that there are plenty of jobs
>_everywhere_. In my profession it's very tough to find a job outside
>of a city.
If, of course, you want to teach - or have the ability to do it. if you
have, why do you not? Could be the pay, of course, and the hours,
believe it or not.
--
Marie Lewis
writes
>No, they can choose to do a job in a region_if they can get a job
>there_ otherwise they have to do something else to be able to live
>where they want. You may say that the French teachers are limited to
>"work in teaching" or "work where they want" but it's still a choice,
>and one shared by many professions.
This is nit-picking. I was writing about the conditions of work for
teachers. If they leave the profession, they are no longer teachers and
so outside the remit of my comments. Clear?
> You could equally say that
>teaching in the UK is fortunate in that there are plenty of jobs
>_everywhere_. In my profession it's very tough to find a job outside
>of a city.
If, of course, you want to teach - or have the ability to do it. if you
have, why do you not? Could be the pay, of course, and the hours,
believe it or not.
--
Marie Lewis
