How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Jun 15th 2003, 9:41 pm
#196
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Following up to EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
>Unfortunately, most of us have never noticed that,
>from being the envy of the rest of the world (after WW2) we have become
>the "poor relation" in terms of most of the things that really matter.
>Maybe the average family has more "modern conveniences" (aka useless
>gadgets), but in most ways, our "quality of life" is not nearly that of
>our European counterparts.
probably the same sort of thing happened in the UK where older people
kept on saying "we have the best health service in the world" long
after lack of funding let France and Germany overtake, still, at least
its there, and there seems to be more acceptance to accept there is no
substitute for cash, although a lot of politicians still think
constant reorganisation can do the trick, deckchairs and Titanic come
to mind..
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Wasdale, landscape photos, London & the Thames path "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
>Unfortunately, most of us have never noticed that,
>from being the envy of the rest of the world (after WW2) we have become
>the "poor relation" in terms of most of the things that really matter.
>Maybe the average family has more "modern conveniences" (aka useless
>gadgets), but in most ways, our "quality of life" is not nearly that of
>our European counterparts.
probably the same sort of thing happened in the UK where older people
kept on saying "we have the best health service in the world" long
after lack of funding let France and Germany overtake, still, at least
its there, and there seems to be more acceptance to accept there is no
substitute for cash, although a lot of politicians still think
constant reorganisation can do the trick, deckchairs and Titanic come
to mind..
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Wasdale, landscape photos, London & the Thames path "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
Jun 15th 2003, 9:41 pm
#197
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Following up to Mxsmanic
>was still regarded as a "secure" career!
>What is a "secure" career? I don't think I've ever heard that term.
note the "was still". Certainly existed in UK, Japan too as far as I
can understand.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Wasdale, landscape photos, London & the Thames path "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
>was still regarded as a "secure" career!
>What is a "secure" career? I don't think I've ever heard that term.
note the "was still". Certainly existed in UK, Japan too as far as I
can understand.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Wasdale, landscape photos, London & the Thames path "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
Jun 15th 2003, 9:41 pm
#198
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:41:07 +0100, The Reid
wrote:
>Following up to Mxsmanic
>>was still regarded as a "secure" career!
>>What is a "secure" career? I don't think I've ever heard that term.
>note the "was still". Certainly existed in UK, Japan too as far as I
>can understand.
My father worked for Post Office Telephones/British Telecom for all
his working life apart from national service in the Navy in WWII.
He started as a "Special Faultsman", repairing telephone lines, and
was then promoted to a foreman, then a trainer, then an Area Engineer
responsible for installation, then an Executive Engineer and finally a
Senior Executive Engineer.
Jobs were largely considered as "jobs for life" unless someone
seriously screwed up.
This all started to fall to bits in the Thatcher era.
I've changed jobs God knows how many times.
wrote:
>Following up to Mxsmanic
>>was still regarded as a "secure" career!
>>What is a "secure" career? I don't think I've ever heard that term.
>note the "was still". Certainly existed in UK, Japan too as far as I
>can understand.
My father worked for Post Office Telephones/British Telecom for all
his working life apart from national service in the Navy in WWII.
He started as a "Special Faultsman", repairing telephone lines, and
was then promoted to a foreman, then a trainer, then an Area Engineer
responsible for installation, then an Executive Engineer and finally a
Senior Executive Engineer.
Jobs were largely considered as "jobs for life" unless someone
seriously screwed up.
This all started to fall to bits in the Thatcher era.
I've changed jobs God knows how many times.
Jun 15th 2003, 10:15 pm
#199
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:16:07 +0100, Marie Lewis
wrote:
>In article , Jim Ley
> writes
>>Really? if there are teachers willing to work in all areas, then
>>arranging transfers between regions would be trivial, the same schemes
>>and methods which work for say social housing across countries would
>>work. I can't imagine they annoy teachers for "administrive things"
>>but because gettting teachers to work in some areas is hard to do.
>This is because you possibly do not understand how the French system
>works.
Then please feel free to educate me... You're presumably saying that 2
teachers of the same subject can not organise to swap jobs? They're
prevented doing this. That's a shame, and again I'm amazed that any
teachers enter the profession in france - the other working conditions
must be particularly good.
Jim.
wrote:
>In article , Jim Ley
> writes
>>Really? if there are teachers willing to work in all areas, then
>>arranging transfers between regions would be trivial, the same schemes
>>and methods which work for say social housing across countries would
>>work. I can't imagine they annoy teachers for "administrive things"
>>but because gettting teachers to work in some areas is hard to do.
>This is because you possibly do not understand how the French system
>works.
Then please feel free to educate me... You're presumably saying that 2
teachers of the same subject can not organise to swap jobs? They're
prevented doing this. That's a shame, and again I'm amazed that any
teachers enter the profession in france - the other working conditions
must be particularly good.
Jim.
Jun 15th 2003, 11:02 pm
#200
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
"Jim Ley" a écrit dans le message news:
[email protected]...
> Really? if there are teachers willing to work in all areas, then
> arranging transfers between regions would be trivial, the same schemes
> and methods which work for say social housing across countries would
> work. I can't imagine they annoy teachers for "administrive things"
> but because gettting teachers to work in some areas is hard to do.
The reason is that some aeras are very much in demand (basically, West and
South), whereas other are not (the Paris region). I think there is some kind
of "piority" if you're originating from the area you ask for, or if your
spouse live there, but even in that case, it may take much time.
Btw, their recent strike had nothing to do with that question.
JPh
[email protected]...
> Really? if there are teachers willing to work in all areas, then
> arranging transfers between regions would be trivial, the same schemes
> and methods which work for say social housing across countries would
> work. I can't imagine they annoy teachers for "administrive things"
> but because gettting teachers to work in some areas is hard to do.
The reason is that some aeras are very much in demand (basically, West and
South), whereas other are not (the Paris region). I think there is some kind
of "piority" if you're originating from the area you ask for, or if your
spouse live there, but even in that case, it may take much time.
Btw, their recent strike had nothing to do with that question.
JPh
Jun 15th 2003, 11:25 pm
#201
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Jim Ley writes:
> Or can _everyone_ in the US get it in a week,
> regardless of income etc.
Virtually everyone can get it done, depending on his exact location, but
he will subsequently be bankrupted if he does not have insurance. In
some locations, it cannot be done unless the patient can pay for it.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> Or can _everyone_ in the US get it in a week,
> regardless of income etc.
Virtually everyone can get it done, depending on his exact location, but
he will subsequently be bankrupted if he does not have insurance. In
some locations, it cannot be done unless the patient can pay for it.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Jun 16th 2003, 12:14 am
#202
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
In article ,
Jim Ley wrote:
>On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 01:11:12 GMT, Go Fig wrote:
>>Tell me, what is the wait time for a full-machine hip replacement in
>>France (I have no idea)? In the UK it is 10 weeks. In the U.S. it
>>would be less than a week for an individual over 65.
>I believe that's NHS figures, if you're going to compare to the US,
>then you need to include the fact that those who have health insurance
>or wish to pay, can also have it done in a week.
>Or can _everyone_ in the US get it in a week, regardless of income
>etc.
I have friends in the US in their late 20s with decent university degrees
who cannot afford to see a doctor if they are feeling unwell. These are
skilled people who are basically living with crippling student debt and are
basically living hand to mouth, even though they have reasonable jobs.
--
/* _ */main(int k,char**n){char*i=k&1?"+L*;99,RU[,RUo+BeKAA+BECACJ+CAACA"
/* / ` */"CD+LBCACJ*":1[n],j,l=!k,m;do for(m=*i-48,j=l?m/k:m%k;m>>7?k=1<<m+
/* | */8,!l&&puts(&l)**&l:j--;printf(" \0_/"+l));while((l^=3)||l[++i]);
/* \_,hris Brown -- All opinions expressed are probably wrong. */return 0;}
Jim Ley wrote:
>On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 01:11:12 GMT, Go Fig wrote:
>>Tell me, what is the wait time for a full-machine hip replacement in
>>France (I have no idea)? In the UK it is 10 weeks. In the U.S. it
>>would be less than a week for an individual over 65.
>I believe that's NHS figures, if you're going to compare to the US,
>then you need to include the fact that those who have health insurance
>or wish to pay, can also have it done in a week.
>Or can _everyone_ in the US get it in a week, regardless of income
>etc.
I have friends in the US in their late 20s with decent university degrees
who cannot afford to see a doctor if they are feeling unwell. These are
skilled people who are basically living with crippling student debt and are
basically living hand to mouth, even though they have reasonable jobs.
--
/* _ */main(int k,char**n){char*i=k&1?"+L*;99,RU[,RUo+BeKAA+BECACJ+CAACA"
/* / ` */"CD+LBCACJ*":1[n],j,l=!k,m;do for(m=*i-48,j=l?m/k:m%k;m>>7?k=1<<m+
/* | */8,!l&&puts(&l)**&l:j--;printf(" \0_/"+l));while((l^=3)||l[++i]);
/* \_,hris Brown -- All opinions expressed are probably wrong. */return 0;}
Jun 16th 2003, 12:14 am
#203
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
In article ,
[email protected] (Jim Ley) wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 01:11:12 GMT, Go Fig wrote:
>
> >Tell me, what is the wait time for a full-machine hip replacement in
> >France (I have no idea)? In the UK it is 10 weeks. In the U.S. it
> >would be less than a week for an individual over 65.
>
> I believe that's NHS figures, if you're going to compare to the US,
> then you need to include the fact that those who have health insurance
> or wish to pay, can also have it done in a week.
>
> Or can _everyone_ in the US get it in a week, regardless of income
> etc.
>
> Jim.
If you are over 65 your primary medical insurance is the Gov.
However, the system is in peril, the restitution rates that the Gov pays
doctors and hospitals is not sustainable.
jay
Mon, Jun 16, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
[email protected] (Jim Ley) wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 01:11:12 GMT, Go Fig wrote:
>
> >Tell me, what is the wait time for a full-machine hip replacement in
> >France (I have no idea)? In the UK it is 10 weeks. In the U.S. it
> >would be less than a week for an individual over 65.
>
> I believe that's NHS figures, if you're going to compare to the US,
> then you need to include the fact that those who have health insurance
> or wish to pay, can also have it done in a week.
>
> Or can _everyone_ in the US get it in a week, regardless of income
> etc.
>
> Jim.
If you are over 65 your primary medical insurance is the Gov.
However, the system is in peril, the restitution rates that the Gov pays
doctors and hospitals is not sustainable.
jay
Mon, Jun 16, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Jun 16th 2003, 2:15 am
#204
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
In article , Jim Ley
writes
>You're presumably saying that 2
>teachers of the same subject can not organise to swap jobs? They're
>prevented doing this.
Yes, that is so.
Teachers are of different status according to the exams they passed at
the beginning (usually) of their careers.
Those with the "Aggregation" have first choice of jobs, get paid more
and work fewer hours that those with lesser qualifications.
> That's a shame, and again I'm amazed that any
>teachers enter the profession in france - the other working conditions
>must be particularly good.
They are: The hours are particularly good in that, if you are not
teaching you are free to leave the establishment. There are very long
holidays.
The exams you passed early guarantee your job.
You are not required to do anything but teach; "surveillants" look after
discipline.
Now, I may be a little out of date on this: perhaps someone in France
would bring me up to date.
--
Marie Lewis
writes
>You're presumably saying that 2
>teachers of the same subject can not organise to swap jobs? They're
>prevented doing this.
Yes, that is so.
Teachers are of different status according to the exams they passed at
the beginning (usually) of their careers.
Those with the "Aggregation" have first choice of jobs, get paid more
and work fewer hours that those with lesser qualifications.
> That's a shame, and again I'm amazed that any
>teachers enter the profession in france - the other working conditions
>must be particularly good.
They are: The hours are particularly good in that, if you are not
teaching you are free to leave the establishment. There are very long
holidays.
The exams you passed early guarantee your job.
You are not required to do anything but teach; "surveillants" look after
discipline.
Now, I may be a little out of date on this: perhaps someone in France
would bring me up to date.
--
Marie Lewis
Jun 16th 2003, 3:04 am
#205
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:14:36 +0000, Go Fig wrote:
>
> If you are over 65 your primary medical insurance is the Gov.
Biggest program in socialist medicine in the world.
:-)
> However, the system is in peril, the restitution rates that the Gov pays
> doctors and hospitals is not sustainable.
Welfare program for the monopolistic medical business. What you need is
free enterprise instead.
I wonder why no one as yet managed to use these anti-racketeering statutes
against them. :-)
Anyway it's crookery on a grand scale. :-)
>
> If you are over 65 your primary medical insurance is the Gov.
Biggest program in socialist medicine in the world.
:-)
> However, the system is in peril, the restitution rates that the Gov pays
> doctors and hospitals is not sustainable.
Welfare program for the monopolistic medical business. What you need is
free enterprise instead.
I wonder why no one as yet managed to use these anti-racketeering statutes
against them. :-)
Anyway it's crookery on a grand scale. :-)
Jun 16th 2003, 3:57 am
#206
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
In article , devil
writes
>Biggest program in socialist medicine in the world.
Socialist = good!
--
Marie Lewis
writes
>Biggest program in socialist medicine in the world.
Socialist = good!
--
Marie Lewis
Jun 16th 2003, 5:50 am
#207
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 15:15:15 +0100, Marie Lewis wrote:
> In article , Jim Ley
> writes
>>You're presumably saying that 2
>>teachers of the same subject can not organise to swap jobs? They're
>>prevented doing this.
>
> Yes, that is so.
>
> Teachers are of different status according to the exams they passed at
> the beginning (usually) of their careers.
>
> Those with the "Aggregation" have first choice of jobs, get paid more
> and work fewer hours that those with lesser qualifications.
Small detail: nothing to do with aggregates. It's agregation, really
(with grave accent on the e).
Is it still the case however that the bulk of teachers have really no
tenure? Maitres auxiliaires, I think it was (30 years ago when I was more
familiar). Trying to pass the CAPES without success year after year.
> In article , Jim Ley
> writes
>>You're presumably saying that 2
>>teachers of the same subject can not organise to swap jobs? They're
>>prevented doing this.
>
> Yes, that is so.
>
> Teachers are of different status according to the exams they passed at
> the beginning (usually) of their careers.
>
> Those with the "Aggregation" have first choice of jobs, get paid more
> and work fewer hours that those with lesser qualifications.
Small detail: nothing to do with aggregates. It's agregation, really
(with grave accent on the e).
Is it still the case however that the bulk of teachers have really no
tenure? Maitres auxiliaires, I think it was (30 years ago when I was more
familiar). Trying to pass the CAPES without success year after year.
Jun 16th 2003, 5:54 am
#208
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:57:22 +0100, Marie Lewis wrote:
> In article , devil
> writes
>>Biggest program in socialist medicine in the world.
>
>
> Socialist = good!
Eh, I was talking to Jay.
And of the RICO statutes against racketeering. Which I have long
beleived ought to be used against the monopolistic medical business in the
US. My personal experience is that anywhere near 10 to 30% of insurance
claims are fraudulent or borderline fraudulent. "Computer error,"
computer make for nice scapegoats.
Free market solution :-).
> In article , devil
> writes
>>Biggest program in socialist medicine in the world.
>
>
> Socialist = good!
Eh, I was talking to Jay.
And of the RICO statutes against racketeering. Which I have long
beleived ought to be used against the monopolistic medical business in the
US. My personal experience is that anywhere near 10 to 30% of insurance
claims are fraudulent or borderline fraudulent. "Computer error,"
computer make for nice scapegoats.
Free market solution :-).
Jun 16th 2003, 5:59 am
#209
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:10:27 +0100, Keith Anderson
wrote:
>Not a scientific reply, but two teachers I know completed their
>training, and were then assigned to schools in different parts of
>France. One was lucky and found a place near home - the other wasn't,
>and had to leave Paris for the "sticks".
Just for the record, in the USA teacher hiring is done by the
individual school districts, which have an almost astonishing
degree of autonomy compared to schools in other parts of the
world. Districts range from huge in size, as the Chicago and New
York school districts, which are controlled to some extent by
those cities, to the miniscule, with perhaps at most a few
hundred students in some rural areas. The districts are mostly
run by boards which are locally elected. The state government
usually sets some minimum standards but otherwise the local
district is free to do as it pleases. Districts do not
necessarily conform to any other local political boundaries; here
in Arizona a city may have within it parts of several school
districts, none of them answerable to the city in any way.
Each district has its own taxing authority, mostly property
taxes, and adjacent districts can have one dirt poor and the
other faboulously wealthy simply by the happenstance that the
latter has very heavy business property within its boundary while
the other has not. here in Arizona one remote small district in
the desert contains three privately owned nuclear power plants
and has an incredible tax base.
There are some 14,000 individual school districts in the USA;
only one state, Hawai'i, has seen fit to have a single statewide
district, a move that removes the economic disparities for
adjacent schools.
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2001/overview/table04.asp
Teachers looking for employment must pick the districts they
might like to work in and then apply to each. Here in Tucson I
could choose to work for, e.g., the Tucson Unified, Amphitheater,
Foothills, Oro Valley, Sunnyside, or Flowing Wells districts,
among others.
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
wrote:
>Not a scientific reply, but two teachers I know completed their
>training, and were then assigned to schools in different parts of
>France. One was lucky and found a place near home - the other wasn't,
>and had to leave Paris for the "sticks".
Just for the record, in the USA teacher hiring is done by the
individual school districts, which have an almost astonishing
degree of autonomy compared to schools in other parts of the
world. Districts range from huge in size, as the Chicago and New
York school districts, which are controlled to some extent by
those cities, to the miniscule, with perhaps at most a few
hundred students in some rural areas. The districts are mostly
run by boards which are locally elected. The state government
usually sets some minimum standards but otherwise the local
district is free to do as it pleases. Districts do not
necessarily conform to any other local political boundaries; here
in Arizona a city may have within it parts of several school
districts, none of them answerable to the city in any way.
Each district has its own taxing authority, mostly property
taxes, and adjacent districts can have one dirt poor and the
other faboulously wealthy simply by the happenstance that the
latter has very heavy business property within its boundary while
the other has not. here in Arizona one remote small district in
the desert contains three privately owned nuclear power plants
and has an incredible tax base.
There are some 14,000 individual school districts in the USA;
only one state, Hawai'i, has seen fit to have a single statewide
district, a move that removes the economic disparities for
adjacent schools.
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2001/overview/table04.asp
Teachers looking for employment must pick the districts they
might like to work in and then apply to each. Here in Tucson I
could choose to work for, e.g., the Tucson Unified, Amphitheater,
Foothills, Oro Valley, Sunnyside, or Flowing Wells districts,
among others.
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Jun 16th 2003, 6:04 am
#210
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Marie Lewis wrote:
>In article , Jim Ley
> writes
>>You're presumably saying that 2
>>teachers of the same subject can not organise to swap jobs? They're
>>prevented doing this.
>Yes, that is so.
>Teachers are of different status according to the exams they passed at
>the beginning (usually) of their careers.
>Those with the "Aggregation" have first choice of jobs, get paid more
>and work fewer hours that those with lesser qualifications.
>> That's a shame, and again I'm amazed that any
>>teachers enter the profession in france - the other working conditions
>>must be particularly good.
>They are: The hours are particularly good in that, if you are not
>teaching you are free to leave the establishment. There are very long
>holidays.
>The exams you passed early guarantee your job.
>You are not required to do anything but teach; "surveillants" look after
>discipline.
>Now, I may be a little out of date on this: perhaps someone in France
>would bring me up to date.
I think you have it about right. A second-level teacher who is
"agrégé" (the highest level of qualification) is required to teach for
fourteen hours per week. No other direct duties but, of course, time
needs to be spent in preparing classes and marking student work.
PB.
>In article , Jim Ley
> writes
>>You're presumably saying that 2
>>teachers of the same subject can not organise to swap jobs? They're
>>prevented doing this.
>Yes, that is so.
>Teachers are of different status according to the exams they passed at
>the beginning (usually) of their careers.
>Those with the "Aggregation" have first choice of jobs, get paid more
>and work fewer hours that those with lesser qualifications.
>> That's a shame, and again I'm amazed that any
>>teachers enter the profession in france - the other working conditions
>>must be particularly good.
>They are: The hours are particularly good in that, if you are not
>teaching you are free to leave the establishment. There are very long
>holidays.
>The exams you passed early guarantee your job.
>You are not required to do anything but teach; "surveillants" look after
>discipline.
>Now, I may be a little out of date on this: perhaps someone in France
>would bring me up to date.
I think you have it about right. A second-level teacher who is
"agrégé" (the highest level of qualification) is required to teach for
fourteen hours per week. No other direct duties but, of course, time
needs to be spent in preparing classes and marking student work.
PB.
