How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Jun 16th 2003, 6:23 am
#211
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
In article ,
"devil" wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:57:22 +0100, Marie Lewis wrote:
>
> > In article , devil
> > writes
> >>
> >>Biggest program in socialist medicine in the world.
> >
> >
> > Socialist = good!
>
> Eh, I was talking to Jay.
>
> And of the RICO statutes against racketeering. Which I have long
> beleived ought to be used against the monopolistic medical business in the
> US.
Humm, I have an almost limitless amount of individual providers to
choose from.
How many providers do you have in Canada ? How many provinces are there ?
My personal experience is that anywhere near 10 to 30% of insurance
> claims are fraudulent or borderline fraudulent. "Computer error,"
> computer make for nice scapegoats.
>
> Free market solution :-).
And when people have a co-pay this number drops, when it's 'free' who
looks at the bill ?
jay
Mon, Jun 16, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
>
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
"devil" wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:57:22 +0100, Marie Lewis wrote:
>
> > In article , devil
> > writes
> >>
> >>Biggest program in socialist medicine in the world.
> >
> >
> > Socialist = good!
>
> Eh, I was talking to Jay.
>
> And of the RICO statutes against racketeering. Which I have long
> beleived ought to be used against the monopolistic medical business in the
> US.
Humm, I have an almost limitless amount of individual providers to
choose from.
How many providers do you have in Canada ? How many provinces are there ?
My personal experience is that anywhere near 10 to 30% of insurance
> claims are fraudulent or borderline fraudulent. "Computer error,"
> computer make for nice scapegoats.
>
> Free market solution :-).
And when people have a co-pay this number drops, when it's 'free' who
looks at the bill ?
jay
Mon, Jun 16, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
>
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Jun 16th 2003, 6:55 am
#212
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:23:14 +0000, Go Fig wrote:
> In article ,
> "devil" wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:57:22 +0100, Marie Lewis wrote:
>>
>> > In article , devil
>> > writes
>> >>
>> >>Biggest program in socialist medicine in the world.
>> >
>> >
>> > Socialist = good!
>>
>> Eh, I was talking to Jay.
>>
>> And of the RICO statutes against racketeering. Which I have long
>> beleived ought to be used against the monopolistic medical business in the
>> US.
>
>
> Humm, I have an almost limitless amount of individual providers to
> choose from.
However they conspire to set prices. And to overprescribe testing to use
the equipment that is owned by the same businesses. (Sometimes using the
risk of lawsuit as an excuse.)
> How many providers do you have in Canada ? How many provinces are there ?
Providers are, like in the US, independent or incorporated businesses.
However the prices are determined by the insurance.
And they do not practice insurance fraud on a large scale either.
> My personal experience is that anywhere near 10 to 30% of insurance
>> claims are fraudulent or borderline fraudulent. "Computer error,"
>> computer make for nice scapegoats.
>>
>> Free market solution :-).
>
> And when people have a co-pay this number drops, when it's 'free' who
> looks at the bill ?
Co-ay would indeed have that advantage. However it is also a trojan
horse. Look at any country where they started with a small amount. Where
they are twenty years later. Guess what, the co-pay eventually turns into
the lion's share.
I don't believe that, without a co-pay, there is massive fraud in Canada the
way there is in the US. For a simple reason: single payer, which cares
about costs. While in the US, insurance companies have in effect no way
to fight fraud. And it's easier to pass on the cost into premiums.
> In article ,
> "devil" wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:57:22 +0100, Marie Lewis wrote:
>>
>> > In article , devil
>> > writes
>> >>
>> >>Biggest program in socialist medicine in the world.
>> >
>> >
>> > Socialist = good!
>>
>> Eh, I was talking to Jay.
>>
>> And of the RICO statutes against racketeering. Which I have long
>> beleived ought to be used against the monopolistic medical business in the
>> US.
>
>
> Humm, I have an almost limitless amount of individual providers to
> choose from.
However they conspire to set prices. And to overprescribe testing to use
the equipment that is owned by the same businesses. (Sometimes using the
risk of lawsuit as an excuse.)
> How many providers do you have in Canada ? How many provinces are there ?
Providers are, like in the US, independent or incorporated businesses.
However the prices are determined by the insurance.
And they do not practice insurance fraud on a large scale either.
> My personal experience is that anywhere near 10 to 30% of insurance
>> claims are fraudulent or borderline fraudulent. "Computer error,"
>> computer make for nice scapegoats.
>>
>> Free market solution :-).
>
> And when people have a co-pay this number drops, when it's 'free' who
> looks at the bill ?
Co-ay would indeed have that advantage. However it is also a trojan
horse. Look at any country where they started with a small amount. Where
they are twenty years later. Guess what, the co-pay eventually turns into
the lion's share.
I don't believe that, without a co-pay, there is massive fraud in Canada the
way there is in the US. For a simple reason: single payer, which cares
about costs. While in the US, insurance companies have in effect no way
to fight fraud. And it's easier to pass on the cost into premiums.
Jun 16th 2003, 7:35 am
#213
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
In article ,
"devil" wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:23:14 +0000, Go Fig wrote:
>
> > In article ,
> > "devil" wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:57:22 +0100, Marie Lewis wrote:
> >>
> >> > In article , devil
> >> > writes
> >> >>
> >> >>Biggest program in socialist medicine in the world.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Socialist = good!
> >>
> >> Eh, I was talking to Jay.
> >>
> >> And of the RICO statutes against racketeering. Which I have long
> >> beleived ought to be used against the monopolistic medical business in the
> >> US.
> >
> >
> > Humm, I have an almost limitless amount of individual providers to
> > choose from.
>
> However they conspire to set prices.
Actually, for most, it is the not the providers that set fee schedule
but the consumers via their agents; insurance companies and the states.
This year the State of California imposed a flat across the board 6% cut
in fees. If you want their clients you accept the contract. Few
medical providers can exist without the state as a client.
> And to overprescribe testing to use
> the equipment that is owned by the same businesses. (Sometimes using the
> risk of lawsuit as an excuse.)
In the U.S., it is not always an excuse.
The companies that are really making cash are Siemens and G.E. In the
U.S. if your facility does not have; PET, CAT and MRI... you can't
compete. If you can find a way to cut the ER, you can make a good
return.
>
> > How many providers do you have in Canada ? How many provinces are there ?
>
> Providers are, like in the US, independent or incorporated businesses.
> However the prices are determined by the insurance.
This differs from my personnel experience in British Columbia, for
services rendered I (my insurance) paid the Government. In California,
these would be paid to private individual providers.
>
> And they do not practice insurance fraud on a large scale either.
>
> > My personal experience is that anywhere near 10 to 30% of insurance
> >> claims are fraudulent or borderline fraudulent. "Computer error,"
> >> computer make for nice scapegoats.
> >>
> >> Free market solution :-).
> >
> > And when people have a co-pay this number drops, when it's 'free' who
> > looks at the bill ?
>
> Co-ay would indeed have that advantage. However it is also a trojan
> horse. Look at any country where they started with a small amount. Where
> they are twenty years later. Guess what, the co-pay eventually turns into
> the lion's share.
Well when Marcus Wellby MD came to your home, he didn't have a CAT scan
in that Ford. The miracles of technology cost big bucks. The exposure
to insurance co. has grown geometrically.
>
> I don't believe that, without a co-pay, there is massive fraud in Canada the
> way there is in the US. For a simple reason: single payer, which cares
> about costs. While in the US, insurance companies have in effect no way
> to fight fraud. And it's easier to pass on the cost into premiums.
If people have a direct financial stake in it, it can only bring down
costs.
jay
Mon, Jun 16, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
>
>
>
>
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
"devil" wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 18:23:14 +0000, Go Fig wrote:
>
> > In article ,
> > "devil" wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:57:22 +0100, Marie Lewis wrote:
> >>
> >> > In article , devil
> >> > writes
> >> >>
> >> >>Biggest program in socialist medicine in the world.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Socialist = good!
> >>
> >> Eh, I was talking to Jay.
> >>
> >> And of the RICO statutes against racketeering. Which I have long
> >> beleived ought to be used against the monopolistic medical business in the
> >> US.
> >
> >
> > Humm, I have an almost limitless amount of individual providers to
> > choose from.
>
> However they conspire to set prices.
Actually, for most, it is the not the providers that set fee schedule
but the consumers via their agents; insurance companies and the states.
This year the State of California imposed a flat across the board 6% cut
in fees. If you want their clients you accept the contract. Few
medical providers can exist without the state as a client.
> And to overprescribe testing to use
> the equipment that is owned by the same businesses. (Sometimes using the
> risk of lawsuit as an excuse.)
In the U.S., it is not always an excuse.
The companies that are really making cash are Siemens and G.E. In the
U.S. if your facility does not have; PET, CAT and MRI... you can't
compete. If you can find a way to cut the ER, you can make a good
return.
>
> > How many providers do you have in Canada ? How many provinces are there ?
>
> Providers are, like in the US, independent or incorporated businesses.
> However the prices are determined by the insurance.
This differs from my personnel experience in British Columbia, for
services rendered I (my insurance) paid the Government. In California,
these would be paid to private individual providers.
>
> And they do not practice insurance fraud on a large scale either.
>
> > My personal experience is that anywhere near 10 to 30% of insurance
> >> claims are fraudulent or borderline fraudulent. "Computer error,"
> >> computer make for nice scapegoats.
> >>
> >> Free market solution :-).
> >
> > And when people have a co-pay this number drops, when it's 'free' who
> > looks at the bill ?
>
> Co-ay would indeed have that advantage. However it is also a trojan
> horse. Look at any country where they started with a small amount. Where
> they are twenty years later. Guess what, the co-pay eventually turns into
> the lion's share.
Well when Marcus Wellby MD came to your home, he didn't have a CAT scan
in that Ford. The miracles of technology cost big bucks. The exposure
to insurance co. has grown geometrically.
>
> I don't believe that, without a co-pay, there is massive fraud in Canada the
> way there is in the US. For a simple reason: single payer, which cares
> about costs. While in the US, insurance companies have in effect no way
> to fight fraud. And it's easier to pass on the cost into premiums.
If people have a direct financial stake in it, it can only bring down
costs.
jay
Mon, Jun 16, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
>
>
>
>
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Jun 16th 2003, 7:49 am
#214
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Go Fig wrote:
>
> In article ,
> Mxsmanic wrote:
>
> > Go Fig writes:
> >
> > > The OP experience is not an irrelevant fact to this text you
> > > deliberately excluded.
> >
> > In the absence of a counter-argument
>
> A counter argument to what original arugement ? It was nothing more
> than a POV.
>
> that does not address the character
> > of the poster, it's just a simple ad hominem, and thus not of great
> > utility in debate.
> >
> > > Is it your position after a week in Paris as a tourist
> > > and another week in Austria one can assess "quality of
> > > life" experience for 380 million Europeans ?
> >
> > How much accuracy is required?
>
> Tell me, what is the wait time for a full-machine hip replacement in
> France (I have no idea)? In the UK it is 10 weeks. In the U.S. it
> would be less than a week for an individual over 65.
Only if you have "connections" and good insurance - which many retired
Americans cannot afford. (Again you betray your ignorance of how "the
other half" lives.) Also, I've known a few people who fell for the
glowing pictures painted by eager surgeons, only to find themselves
PERMANENTLY tied to a wheelchair, where previously it was only a
sometime thing. (True, they may have been exceptions to the rule, but
you can't say it doesn't happen - some of us prefer "the devil we know",
even if it involves severe pain, to elective surgery with no guarantee
of success.)
>
> In article ,
> Mxsmanic wrote:
>
> > Go Fig writes:
> >
> > > The OP experience is not an irrelevant fact to this text you
> > > deliberately excluded.
> >
> > In the absence of a counter-argument
>
> A counter argument to what original arugement ? It was nothing more
> than a POV.
>
> that does not address the character
> > of the poster, it's just a simple ad hominem, and thus not of great
> > utility in debate.
> >
> > > Is it your position after a week in Paris as a tourist
> > > and another week in Austria one can assess "quality of
> > > life" experience for 380 million Europeans ?
> >
> > How much accuracy is required?
>
> Tell me, what is the wait time for a full-machine hip replacement in
> France (I have no idea)? In the UK it is 10 weeks. In the U.S. it
> would be less than a week for an individual over 65.
Only if you have "connections" and good insurance - which many retired
Americans cannot afford. (Again you betray your ignorance of how "the
other half" lives.) Also, I've known a few people who fell for the
glowing pictures painted by eager surgeons, only to find themselves
PERMANENTLY tied to a wheelchair, where previously it was only a
sometime thing. (True, they may have been exceptions to the rule, but
you can't say it doesn't happen - some of us prefer "the devil we know",
even if it involves severe pain, to elective surgery with no guarantee
of success.)
Jun 16th 2003, 7:51 am
#215
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Geoff McCaughan wrote:
>
> poldy wrote:
>
> > Yes a little joke. Actually I read this group a lot more last year
> > before a trip and got good info. I didn't recall as many posters from
> > countries where English is not the main language.
>
> English is spoken by more people outside the US than in.
....And not very well by some of the posters IN, judging by their
writing skills!
>
> poldy wrote:
>
> > Yes a little joke. Actually I read this group a lot more last year
> > before a trip and got good info. I didn't recall as many posters from
> > countries where English is not the main language.
>
> English is spoken by more people outside the US than in.
....And not very well by some of the posters IN, judging by their
writing skills!
Jun 16th 2003, 7:54 am
#216
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Jim Ley wrote:
>
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 01:11:12 GMT, Go Fig wrote:
>
> >Tell me, what is the wait time for a full-machine hip replacement in
> >France (I have no idea)? In the UK it is 10 weeks. In the U.S. it
> >would be less than a week for an individual over 65.
>
> I believe that's NHS figures, if you're going to compare to the US,
> then you need to include the fact that those who have health insurance
> or wish to pay, can also have it done in a week.
>
> Or can _everyone_ in the US get it in a week, regardless of income
> etc.
Of course not! But you must remember that "Go Fig" is apparently in the
higher income brackets in the U.S., and has neither the knowledge nor
the practical experience to speak for the rest of us. (A factor he
conveniently ignores, in expressing his opinions.)
>
> Jim.
>
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 01:11:12 GMT, Go Fig wrote:
>
> >Tell me, what is the wait time for a full-machine hip replacement in
> >France (I have no idea)? In the UK it is 10 weeks. In the U.S. it
> >would be less than a week for an individual over 65.
>
> I believe that's NHS figures, if you're going to compare to the US,
> then you need to include the fact that those who have health insurance
> or wish to pay, can also have it done in a week.
>
> Or can _everyone_ in the US get it in a week, regardless of income
> etc.
Of course not! But you must remember that "Go Fig" is apparently in the
higher income brackets in the U.S., and has neither the knowledge nor
the practical experience to speak for the rest of us. (A factor he
conveniently ignores, in expressing his opinions.)
>
> Jim.
Jun 16th 2003, 8:01 am
#217
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
The Reid wrote:
>
> Following up to EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
>
> >Bingo, again! But how do explain the fact that many Americans here also
> >express a distaste for Micky Dee? (As American "fast food" chains go,
> >it may be the most visible and agressively expanding, but it has several
> >competitors who provide much better food.)
>
> With difficultiy, as I have never heard of it! I would imagine they
> are not the same Americans with the McD/WW2 syndrome?
Oh, I thought it was an accepted synonym for "McDonald's", since I first
encountered the term here. Sorry, I assumed everyone would make the
connection.
> --
> Mike Reid
> "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
> Wasdale, landscape photos, London & the Thames path "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
> Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
>
> Following up to EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
>
> >Bingo, again! But how do explain the fact that many Americans here also
> >express a distaste for Micky Dee? (As American "fast food" chains go,
> >it may be the most visible and agressively expanding, but it has several
> >competitors who provide much better food.)
>
> With difficultiy, as I have never heard of it! I would imagine they
> are not the same Americans with the McD/WW2 syndrome?
Oh, I thought it was an accepted synonym for "McDonald's", since I first
encountered the term here. Sorry, I assumed everyone would make the
connection.
> --
> Mike Reid
> "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
> Wasdale, landscape photos, London & the Thames path "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
> Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
Jun 16th 2003, 8:03 am
#218
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Keith Anderson wrote:
>
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:41:07 +0100, The Reid
> wrote:
>
> >Following up to Mxsmanic
> >
> >>was still regarded as a "secure" career!
> >>
> >>What is a "secure" career? I don't think I've ever heard that term.
> >
> >note the "was still". Certainly existed in UK, Japan too as far as I
> >can understand.
>
> My father worked for Post Office Telephones/British Telecom for all
> his working life apart from national service in the Navy in WWII.
>
> He started as a "Special Faultsman", repairing telephone lines, and
> was then promoted to a foreman, then a trainer, then an Area Engineer
> responsible for installation, then an Executive Engineer and finally a
> Senior Executive Engineer.
>
> Jobs were largely considered as "jobs for life" unless someone
> seriously screwed up.
As they were here in the U.S. - unless one CHOSE th make a change.
>
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 10:41:07 +0100, The Reid
> wrote:
>
> >Following up to Mxsmanic
> >
> >>was still regarded as a "secure" career!
> >>
> >>What is a "secure" career? I don't think I've ever heard that term.
> >
> >note the "was still". Certainly existed in UK, Japan too as far as I
> >can understand.
>
> My father worked for Post Office Telephones/British Telecom for all
> his working life apart from national service in the Navy in WWII.
>
> He started as a "Special Faultsman", repairing telephone lines, and
> was then promoted to a foreman, then a trainer, then an Area Engineer
> responsible for installation, then an Executive Engineer and finally a
> Senior Executive Engineer.
>
> Jobs were largely considered as "jobs for life" unless someone
> seriously screwed up.
As they were here in the U.S. - unless one CHOSE th make a change.
Jun 16th 2003, 8:06 am
#219
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Mxsmanic wrote:
>
> Jim Ley writes:
>
> > Or can _everyone_ in the US get it in a week,
> > regardless of income etc.
>
> Virtually everyone can get it done, depending on his exact location, but
> he will subsequently be bankrupted if he does not have insurance. In
> some locations, it cannot be done unless the patient can pay for it.
Exactly! (But tell "Go Fig" that - he appears to assume that anyone not
in his own fortunate position owes the lack to improvidence, not
circumstances beyond their control.)
>
> --
> Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
>
> Jim Ley writes:
>
> > Or can _everyone_ in the US get it in a week,
> > regardless of income etc.
>
> Virtually everyone can get it done, depending on his exact location, but
> he will subsequently be bankrupted if he does not have insurance. In
> some locations, it cannot be done unless the patient can pay for it.
Exactly! (But tell "Go Fig" that - he appears to assume that anyone not
in his own fortunate position owes the lack to improvidence, not
circumstances beyond their control.)
>
> --
> Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Jun 16th 2003, 8:14 am
#220
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Chris Brown wrote:
>
> I have friends in the US in their late 20s with decent university degrees
> who cannot afford to see a doctor if they are feeling unwell. These are
> skilled people who are basically living with crippling student debt and are
> basically living hand to mouth, even though they have reasonable jobs.
And I have middle-aged, self-employed friends in the same position
(although the "debt" may be due to refinancing mortgages to pay for
their kids' educations)! Professional people (one is an ecologist), who
have not won the "lottery" for the limited jobs in their fields, and
must manage as best they can, freelancing, and praying they not fall
ill. Health insurance is a "necessity" only AFTER food and shelter -
something some of the more affluent here seem to find it difficult to
understand.
>
> I have friends in the US in their late 20s with decent university degrees
> who cannot afford to see a doctor if they are feeling unwell. These are
> skilled people who are basically living with crippling student debt and are
> basically living hand to mouth, even though they have reasonable jobs.
And I have middle-aged, self-employed friends in the same position
(although the "debt" may be due to refinancing mortgages to pay for
their kids' educations)! Professional people (one is an ecologist), who
have not won the "lottery" for the limited jobs in their fields, and
must manage as best they can, freelancing, and praying they not fall
ill. Health insurance is a "necessity" only AFTER food and shelter -
something some of the more affluent here seem to find it difficult to
understand.
Jun 16th 2003, 8:18 am
#221
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Marie Lewis wrote:
>
> In article , devil
> writes
> >
> >Biggest program in socialist medicine in the world.
>
> Socialist = good!
Not when it's being administered by dedicated capitalists of the "big
business = good" mindset!
>
> In article , devil
> writes
> >
> >Biggest program in socialist medicine in the world.
>
> Socialist = good!
Not when it's being administered by dedicated capitalists of the "big
business = good" mindset!
Jun 16th 2003, 8:24 am
#222
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
In article ,
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:
> Go Fig wrote:
> >
> > In article ,
> > Mxsmanic wrote:
> >
> > > Go Fig writes:
> > >
> > > > The OP experience is not an irrelevant fact to this text you
> > > > deliberately excluded.
> > >
> > > In the absence of a counter-argument
> >
> > A counter argument to what original arugement ? It was nothing more
> > than a POV.
> >
> > that does not address the character
> > > of the poster, it's just a simple ad hominem, and thus not of great
> > > utility in debate.
> > >
> > > > Is it your position after a week in Paris as a tourist
> > > > and another week in Austria one can assess "quality of
> > > > life" experience for 380 million Europeans ?
> > >
> > > How much accuracy is required?
> >
> > Tell me, what is the wait time for a full-machine hip replacement in
> > France (I have no idea)? In the UK it is 10 weeks. In the U.S. it
> > would be less than a week for an individual over 65.
>
> Only if you have "connections" and good insurance - which many retired
> Americans cannot afford. (Again you betray your ignorance of how "the
> other half" lives.)
If you are Medicare eligible and you go to a Medicare Approved Provider
and Hospital your surgery will be 80% by the Gov. Many providers will
even accept the 80% as full payment. Additionally, many have a private
supplemental to cover this cost.
The procedure will be scheduled by the surgeon according to his schedule
and your need. The resources are there and ready to preform the surgery
at time of need.
> Also, I've known a few people who fell for the
> glowing pictures painted by eager surgeons, only to find themselves
> PERMANENTLY tied to a wheelchair, where previously it was only a
> sometime thing. (True, they may have been exceptions to the rule, but
> you can't say it doesn't happen - some of us prefer "the devil we know",
> even if it involves severe pain, to elective surgery with no guarantee
> of success.)
A broken hip is not considered elective surgery, although some do forego
it.
jay
Mon, Jun 16, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:
> Go Fig wrote:
> >
> > In article ,
> > Mxsmanic wrote:
> >
> > > Go Fig writes:
> > >
> > > > The OP experience is not an irrelevant fact to this text you
> > > > deliberately excluded.
> > >
> > > In the absence of a counter-argument
> >
> > A counter argument to what original arugement ? It was nothing more
> > than a POV.
> >
> > that does not address the character
> > > of the poster, it's just a simple ad hominem, and thus not of great
> > > utility in debate.
> > >
> > > > Is it your position after a week in Paris as a tourist
> > > > and another week in Austria one can assess "quality of
> > > > life" experience for 380 million Europeans ?
> > >
> > > How much accuracy is required?
> >
> > Tell me, what is the wait time for a full-machine hip replacement in
> > France (I have no idea)? In the UK it is 10 weeks. In the U.S. it
> > would be less than a week for an individual over 65.
>
> Only if you have "connections" and good insurance - which many retired
> Americans cannot afford. (Again you betray your ignorance of how "the
> other half" lives.)
If you are Medicare eligible and you go to a Medicare Approved Provider
and Hospital your surgery will be 80% by the Gov. Many providers will
even accept the 80% as full payment. Additionally, many have a private
supplemental to cover this cost.
The procedure will be scheduled by the surgeon according to his schedule
and your need. The resources are there and ready to preform the surgery
at time of need.
> Also, I've known a few people who fell for the
> glowing pictures painted by eager surgeons, only to find themselves
> PERMANENTLY tied to a wheelchair, where previously it was only a
> sometime thing. (True, they may have been exceptions to the rule, but
> you can't say it doesn't happen - some of us prefer "the devil we know",
> even if it involves severe pain, to elective surgery with no guarantee
> of success.)
A broken hip is not considered elective surgery, although some do forego
it.
jay
Mon, Jun 16, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Jun 16th 2003, 8:44 am
#223
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
In article ,
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:
> Chris Brown wrote:
> >
> > I have friends in the US in their late 20s with decent university degrees
> > who cannot afford to see a doctor if they are feeling unwell. These are
> > skilled people who are basically living with crippling student debt and are
> > basically living hand to mouth, even though they have reasonable jobs.
>
> And I have middle-aged, self-employed friends in the same position
> (although the "debt" may be due to refinancing mortgages to pay for
> their kids' educations)! Professional people (one is an ecologist), who
> have not won the "lottery" for the limited jobs in their fields, and
> must manage as best they can, freelancing, and praying they not fall
> ill. Health insurance is a "necessity" only AFTER food and shelter -
> something some of the more affluent here seem to find it difficult to
> understand.
Is it your position that one taxpayer should pay another's health costs
so they can have a family and kids that attend private schools ?
Simply put: is a family a right ?
Sounds like this ecologist needed to find a job instead of a hobby, or
should a full time job be found simply cause that's what they want to do
?
jay
Mon, Jun 16, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:
> Chris Brown wrote:
> >
> > I have friends in the US in their late 20s with decent university degrees
> > who cannot afford to see a doctor if they are feeling unwell. These are
> > skilled people who are basically living with crippling student debt and are
> > basically living hand to mouth, even though they have reasonable jobs.
>
> And I have middle-aged, self-employed friends in the same position
> (although the "debt" may be due to refinancing mortgages to pay for
> their kids' educations)! Professional people (one is an ecologist), who
> have not won the "lottery" for the limited jobs in their fields, and
> must manage as best they can, freelancing, and praying they not fall
> ill. Health insurance is a "necessity" only AFTER food and shelter -
> something some of the more affluent here seem to find it difficult to
> understand.
Is it your position that one taxpayer should pay another's health costs
so they can have a family and kids that attend private schools ?
Simply put: is a family a right ?
Sounds like this ecologist needed to find a job instead of a hobby, or
should a full time job be found simply cause that's what they want to do
?
jay
Mon, Jun 16, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Jun 16th 2003, 8:51 am
#224
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 20:44:05 GMT, Go Fig wrote
> In article ,
> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:
>
>> Chris Brown wrote:
>>>
>>> I have friends in the US in their late 20s with decent
>>> university degrees who cannot afford to see a doctor if they are
>>> feeling unwell. These are skilled people who are basically
>>> living with crippling student debt and are basically living hand
>>> to mouth, even though they have reasonable jobs.
>>
>> And I have middle-aged, self-employed friends in the same
>> position (although the "debt" may be due to refinancing mortgages
>> to pay for their kids' educations)! Professional people (one is
>> an ecologist), who have not won the "lottery" for the limited
>> jobs in their fields, and must manage as best they can,
>> freelancing, and praying they not fall ill. Health insurance is
>> a "necessity" only AFTER food and shelter - something some of the
>> more affluent here seem to find it difficult to understand.
>
> Is it your position that one taxpayer should pay another's health
> costs so they can have a family and kids that attend private
> schools ?
Insurance -- health, life, dental -- is a really, really simple
business.
The more people in the pool, the more the risk is spread, and the less
it costs to cover each individual. The smaller the pool, the higher
the cost to each individual to cover the risk.
A pure and simple market operation.
So: the cheapest way to cover everybody's health insurance is to make
sure that the largest group is in the scheme. And the largest group
possible on a national basis is the population of the nation.
Is there something about the basic operation of market systems that
escapes you?
--
Cheers,
Harvey
For e-mail, change harvey to whhvs.
> In article ,
> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:
>
>> Chris Brown wrote:
>>>
>>> I have friends in the US in their late 20s with decent
>>> university degrees who cannot afford to see a doctor if they are
>>> feeling unwell. These are skilled people who are basically
>>> living with crippling student debt and are basically living hand
>>> to mouth, even though they have reasonable jobs.
>>
>> And I have middle-aged, self-employed friends in the same
>> position (although the "debt" may be due to refinancing mortgages
>> to pay for their kids' educations)! Professional people (one is
>> an ecologist), who have not won the "lottery" for the limited
>> jobs in their fields, and must manage as best they can,
>> freelancing, and praying they not fall ill. Health insurance is
>> a "necessity" only AFTER food and shelter - something some of the
>> more affluent here seem to find it difficult to understand.
>
> Is it your position that one taxpayer should pay another's health
> costs so they can have a family and kids that attend private
> schools ?
Insurance -- health, life, dental -- is a really, really simple
business.
The more people in the pool, the more the risk is spread, and the less
it costs to cover each individual. The smaller the pool, the higher
the cost to each individual to cover the risk.
A pure and simple market operation.
So: the cheapest way to cover everybody's health insurance is to make
sure that the largest group is in the scheme. And the largest group
possible on a national basis is the population of the nation.
Is there something about the basic operation of market systems that
escapes you?
--
Cheers,
Harvey
For e-mail, change harvey to whhvs.
Jun 16th 2003, 9:05 am
#225
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Padraig Breathnach writes:
> I think you have it about right. A second-level
> teacher who is "agrégé" (the highest level of qualification)
> is required to teach for fourteen hours per week. No other
> direct duties but, of course, time needs to be spent
> in preparing classes and marking student work.
It sounds like the real problem is over-regulation, as usual.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> I think you have it about right. A second-level
> teacher who is "agrégé" (the highest level of qualification)
> is required to teach for fourteen hours per week. No other
> direct duties but, of course, time needs to be spent
> in preparing classes and marking student work.
It sounds like the real problem is over-regulation, as usual.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
