How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Jun 15th 2003, 9:32 am
#181
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Go Fig writes:
> The OP experience is not an irrelevant fact to this text you
> deliberately excluded.
In the absence of a counter-argument that does not address the character
of the poster, it's just a simple ad hominem, and thus not of great
utility in debate.
> Is it your position after a week in Paris as a tourist
> and another week in Austria one can assess "quality of
> life" experience for 380 million Europeans ?
How much accuracy is required?
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> The OP experience is not an irrelevant fact to this text you
> deliberately excluded.
In the absence of a counter-argument that does not address the character
of the poster, it's just a simple ad hominem, and thus not of great
utility in debate.
> Is it your position after a week in Paris as a tourist
> and another week in Austria one can assess "quality of
> life" experience for 380 million Europeans ?
How much accuracy is required?
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Jun 15th 2003, 9:39 am
#182
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:25:01 +0100, Marie Lewis
wrote:
>In article , Jim Ley
> writes
>>Of course I do, which is why the ability to force good teachers to not
>>work in the nice areas is quite attractive, if the best teachers get
>>to take the jobs in the best schools, the poor schools won't improve.
>It has absolutely nothing to do with "nice" areas. Nor has it anything
>to do with good or poor schools. It is merely an administrative thing.
Really? if there are teachers willing to work in all areas, then
arranging transfers between regions would be trivial, the same schemes
and methods which work for say social housing across countries would
work. I can't imagine they annoy teachers for "administrive things"
but because gettting teachers to work in some areas is hard to do.
Jim.
wrote:
>In article , Jim Ley
> writes
>>Of course I do, which is why the ability to force good teachers to not
>>work in the nice areas is quite attractive, if the best teachers get
>>to take the jobs in the best schools, the poor schools won't improve.
>It has absolutely nothing to do with "nice" areas. Nor has it anything
>to do with good or poor schools. It is merely an administrative thing.
Really? if there are teachers willing to work in all areas, then
arranging transfers between regions would be trivial, the same schemes
and methods which work for say social housing across countries would
work. I can't imagine they annoy teachers for "administrive things"
but because gettting teachers to work in some areas is hard to do.
Jim.
Jun 15th 2003, 9:43 am
#183
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
On Sun, 15 Jun 2003 22:26:01 +0100, Marie Lewis
wrote:
>In article , J-Ph
> writes
>>"Marie Lewis" a écrit dans le message news:
>>[email protected]...
>>> yes, but they cannot just find another teaching position in another
>>> part of France.
>>They can ask for a transfer, but it can take years before they get the
>>transfer they want.
>This is true. I knew a young married couple who were posted hundreds of
>miles apart. Jim somebody or other thinks this is OK. I do not.
I didn't say it was ok, I said it was no different to the state of
affairs in almost every other profession, in almost all of them you
don't have the freedom to live where you want in the job you want to
do, you either have to compromise in one or the other. I'd agree it's
a pretty poor state of affairs for the teachers and I'd expect the
French would have trouble attracting people to the profession, the
fact that they presumably don't suggests french teachers are either
too naive to look at their working conditions before entering the
profession (unlikely) or are willing to accept those conditions for
the job.
Jim.
wrote:
>In article , J-Ph
> writes
>>"Marie Lewis" a écrit dans le message news:
>>[email protected]...
>>> yes, but they cannot just find another teaching position in another
>>> part of France.
>>They can ask for a transfer, but it can take years before they get the
>>transfer they want.
>This is true. I knew a young married couple who were posted hundreds of
>miles apart. Jim somebody or other thinks this is OK. I do not.
I didn't say it was ok, I said it was no different to the state of
affairs in almost every other profession, in almost all of them you
don't have the freedom to live where you want in the job you want to
do, you either have to compromise in one or the other. I'd agree it's
a pretty poor state of affairs for the teachers and I'd expect the
French would have trouble attracting people to the profession, the
fact that they presumably don't suggests french teachers are either
too naive to look at their working conditions before entering the
profession (unlikely) or are willing to accept those conditions for
the job.
Jim.
Jun 15th 2003, 12:06 pm
#184
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) writes:
> Do you have children? Don't you care about the
> quality of the education they receive?
That's what private schools are for. (And that's where fed-up, good
teachers go to work.)
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> Do you have children? Don't you care about the
> quality of the education they receive?
That's what private schools are for. (And that's where fed-up, good
teachers go to work.)
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Jun 15th 2003, 12:07 pm
#185
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Marie Lewis writes:
> You always change the basis of the argument
> if you esteem that you are losing it.
No, I anticipate the arguments of my interlocutor and prepare my replies
in advance.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> You always change the basis of the argument
> if you esteem that you are losing it.
No, I anticipate the arguments of my interlocutor and prepare my replies
in advance.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Jun 15th 2003, 1:11 pm
#186
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote:
> Go Fig writes:
>
> > The OP experience is not an irrelevant fact to this text you
> > deliberately excluded.
>
> In the absence of a counter-argument
A counter argument to what original arugement ? It was nothing more
than a POV.
that does not address the character
> of the poster, it's just a simple ad hominem, and thus not of great
> utility in debate.
>
> > Is it your position after a week in Paris as a tourist
> > and another week in Austria one can assess "quality of
> > life" experience for 380 million Europeans ?
>
> How much accuracy is required?
Tell me, what is the wait time for a full-machine hip replacement in
France (I have no idea)? In the UK it is 10 weeks. In the U.S. it
would be less than a week for an individual over 65.
Waiting 9 weeks to walk again is a quality of life issue, especially
when one is in the twilight of their life.
jay
Sun, Jun 15, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Mxsmanic wrote:
> Go Fig writes:
>
> > The OP experience is not an irrelevant fact to this text you
> > deliberately excluded.
>
> In the absence of a counter-argument
A counter argument to what original arugement ? It was nothing more
than a POV.
that does not address the character
> of the poster, it's just a simple ad hominem, and thus not of great
> utility in debate.
>
> > Is it your position after a week in Paris as a tourist
> > and another week in Austria one can assess "quality of
> > life" experience for 380 million Europeans ?
>
> How much accuracy is required?
Tell me, what is the wait time for a full-machine hip replacement in
France (I have no idea)? In the UK it is 10 weeks. In the U.S. it
would be less than a week for an individual over 65.
Waiting 9 weeks to walk again is a quality of life issue, especially
when one is in the twilight of their life.
jay
Sun, Jun 15, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Jun 15th 2003, 1:56 pm
#187
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Go Fig writes:
> Tell me, what is the wait time for a full-machine
> hip replacement in France (I have no idea)?
I'm not aware of a waiting list. In fact, French hospitals occasionally
admit patients from the U.K. and other countries who seek such
operations in France in order to avoid the waiting lists at home.
> In the UK it is 10 weeks.
I've read that the U.K. has serious problems.
> Waiting 9 weeks to walk again is a quality of life
> issue, especially when one is in the twilight of their life.
I agree, although the need for a hip replacement does not generally
present overnight.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> Tell me, what is the wait time for a full-machine
> hip replacement in France (I have no idea)?
I'm not aware of a waiting list. In fact, French hospitals occasionally
admit patients from the U.K. and other countries who seek such
operations in France in order to avoid the waiting lists at home.
> In the UK it is 10 weeks.
I've read that the U.K. has serious problems.
> Waiting 9 weeks to walk again is a quality of life
> issue, especially when one is in the twilight of their life.
I agree, although the need for a hip replacement does not generally
present overnight.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Jun 15th 2003, 2:30 pm
#188
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote:
> Go Fig writes:
>
> > Tell me, what is the wait time for a full-machine
> > hip replacement in France (I have no idea)?
>
> I'm not aware of a waiting list. In fact, French hospitals occasionally
> admit patients from the U.K. and other countries who seek such
> operations in France in order to avoid the waiting lists at home.
>
> > In the UK it is 10 weeks.
>
> I've read that the U.K. has serious problems.
The PM is accosted weekly in Parliament.
>
> > Waiting 9 weeks to walk again is a quality of life
> > issue, especially when one is in the twilight of their life.
>
> I agree, although the need for a hip replacement does not generally
> present overnight.
While a underlying condition is present, it is often an event that
triggers the medical necessity. In geriatrics, it can be just a minor
fall that then requires the hip replacement.
jay
Sun, Jun 15, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Mxsmanic wrote:
> Go Fig writes:
>
> > Tell me, what is the wait time for a full-machine
> > hip replacement in France (I have no idea)?
>
> I'm not aware of a waiting list. In fact, French hospitals occasionally
> admit patients from the U.K. and other countries who seek such
> operations in France in order to avoid the waiting lists at home.
>
> > In the UK it is 10 weeks.
>
> I've read that the U.K. has serious problems.
The PM is accosted weekly in Parliament.
>
> > Waiting 9 weeks to walk again is a quality of life
> > issue, especially when one is in the twilight of their life.
>
> I agree, although the need for a hip replacement does not generally
> present overnight.
While a underlying condition is present, it is often an event that
triggers the medical necessity. In geriatrics, it can be just a minor
fall that then requires the hip replacement.
jay
Sun, Jun 15, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Jun 15th 2003, 2:45 pm
#189
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote:
> EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) writes:
>
> > In the private sector, if you REALLY object to being
> > sent wherever, you can find another job with another
> > company (without uprooting your family to another city).
> > If you are a school teacher, you work for the school
> > system ...
>
> Only if you want to. There are private schools, too, even in France.
I am not familiar with the French system of assigning teachers to where
they will teach. Do they not have a choice of the city where they will
teach?
--
Nancy Kay
"Patience is a Virtue"
remove no in e-mail address
Mxsmanic wrote:
> EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) writes:
>
> > In the private sector, if you REALLY object to being
> > sent wherever, you can find another job with another
> > company (without uprooting your family to another city).
> > If you are a school teacher, you work for the school
> > system ...
>
> Only if you want to. There are private schools, too, even in France.
I am not familiar with the French system of assigning teachers to where
they will teach. Do they not have a choice of the city where they will
teach?
--
Nancy Kay
"Patience is a Virtue"
remove no in e-mail address
Jun 15th 2003, 3:49 pm
#190
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
poldy wrote:
> Yes a little joke. Actually I read this group a lot more last year
> before a trip and got good info. I didn't recall as many posters from
> countries where English is not the main language.
English is spoken by more people outside the US than in.
> Yes a little joke. Actually I read this group a lot more last year
> before a trip and got good info. I didn't recall as many posters from
> countries where English is not the main language.
English is spoken by more people outside the US than in.
Jun 15th 2003, 7:16 pm
#191
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
In article , Jim Ley
writes
>Really? if there are teachers willing to work in all areas, then
>arranging transfers between regions would be trivial, the same schemes
>and methods which work for say social housing across countries would
>work. I can't imagine they annoy teachers for "administrive things"
>but because gettting teachers to work in some areas is hard to do.
This is because you possibly do not understand how the French system
works.
--
Marie Lewis
writes
>Really? if there are teachers willing to work in all areas, then
>arranging transfers between regions would be trivial, the same schemes
>and methods which work for say social housing across countries would
>work. I can't imagine they annoy teachers for "administrive things"
>but because gettting teachers to work in some areas is hard to do.
This is because you possibly do not understand how the French system
works.
--
Marie Lewis
Jun 15th 2003, 8:51 pm
#192
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 01:11:12 GMT, Go Fig wrote:
>Tell me, what is the wait time for a full-machine hip replacement in
>France (I have no idea)? In the UK it is 10 weeks. In the U.S. it
>would be less than a week for an individual over 65.
I believe that's NHS figures, if you're going to compare to the US,
then you need to include the fact that those who have health insurance
or wish to pay, can also have it done in a week.
Or can _everyone_ in the US get it in a week, regardless of income
etc.
Jim.
>Tell me, what is the wait time for a full-machine hip replacement in
>France (I have no idea)? In the UK it is 10 weeks. In the U.S. it
>would be less than a week for an individual over 65.
I believe that's NHS figures, if you're going to compare to the US,
then you need to include the fact that those who have health insurance
or wish to pay, can also have it done in a week.
Or can _everyone_ in the US get it in a week, regardless of income
etc.
Jim.
Jun 15th 2003, 9:10 pm
#193
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 02:45:15 GMT, Nancy Kay
wrote:
>In article ,
> Mxsmanic wrote:
>> EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) writes:
>>
>> > In the private sector, if you REALLY object to being
>> > sent wherever, you can find another job with another
>> > company (without uprooting your family to another city).
>> > If you are a school teacher, you work for the school
>> > system ...
>>
>> Only if you want to. There are private schools, too, even in France.
>I am not familiar with the French system of assigning teachers to where
>they will teach. Do they not have a choice of the city where they will
>teach?
Not a scientific reply, but two teachers I know completed their
training, and were then assigned to schools in different parts of
France. One was lucky and found a place near home - the other wasn't,
and had to leave Paris for the "sticks".
wrote:
>In article ,
> Mxsmanic wrote:
>> EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) writes:
>>
>> > In the private sector, if you REALLY object to being
>> > sent wherever, you can find another job with another
>> > company (without uprooting your family to another city).
>> > If you are a school teacher, you work for the school
>> > system ...
>>
>> Only if you want to. There are private schools, too, even in France.
>I am not familiar with the French system of assigning teachers to where
>they will teach. Do they not have a choice of the city where they will
>teach?
Not a scientific reply, but two teachers I know completed their
training, and were then assigned to schools in different parts of
France. One was lucky and found a place near home - the other wasn't,
and had to leave Paris for the "sticks".
Jun 15th 2003, 9:41 pm
#194
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Following up to EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
>Bingo, again! But how do explain the fact that many Americans here also
>express a distaste for Micky Dee? (As American "fast food" chains go,
>it may be the most visible and agressively expanding, but it has several
>competitors who provide much better food.)
With difficultiy, as I have never heard of it! I would imagine they
are not the same Americans with the McD/WW2 syndrome?
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Wasdale, landscape photos, London & the Thames path "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
>Bingo, again! But how do explain the fact that many Americans here also
>express a distaste for Micky Dee? (As American "fast food" chains go,
>it may be the most visible and agressively expanding, but it has several
>competitors who provide much better food.)
With difficultiy, as I have never heard of it! I would imagine they
are not the same Americans with the McD/WW2 syndrome?
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Wasdale, landscape photos, London & the Thames path "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
Jun 15th 2003, 9:41 pm
#195
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How can there be so much traffic in this group?
Following up to EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
>Yes, but that does not include the "working poor", whose income -
>although not really enough to support a family - is above the official
>"poverty level".
exacly the same as UK then, law is for the rich and the poor, crims
get legal aid "income"=0, workers usually above the income ceiling,
there is no win no fee for personal accident claims, but the major
ambuance chasers seem to be going broke, probably a good thing.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Wasdale, landscape photos, London & the Thames path "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
>Yes, but that does not include the "working poor", whose income -
>although not really enough to support a family - is above the official
>"poverty level".
exacly the same as UK then, law is for the rich and the poor, crims
get legal aid "income"=0, workers usually above the income ceiling,
there is no win no fee for personal accident claims, but the major
ambuance chasers seem to be going broke, probably a good thing.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Wasdale, landscape photos, London & the Thames path "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
