Mxsmanic

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) writes:

    > She looked at the nine AM to three PM period that
    > school was officially in session ...

In France, it really is a 9-to-5 job, from what I understand.

French teachers have gone on strike twelve times since the beginning of
this school year.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Tim Hurson

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Tim Hurson wrote:
    > >
    > > "Mxsmanic" wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > The Reid writes:
    > > >
    > > > > These are probably the same people who equate
    > > > > dislike of McDonalds with being ungrateful for
    > > > > US help in WW2.
    > > >
    > > > And the same people who don't know that France is the strongest market
    > > > that McDonald's has right now (amazing but true).
    > >
    > > Then I expect to see brie in my 1/4 pounder next time.
    > Well, that would certainly improve the product! ...Might also be
    > feasible, since I'm sure French brie on its native turf doesn't cost
    > nearly as much as it does here, where it's an "imported" luxury. Also,
    > I gather that McDonald's in Europe does not aim its advertising at
    > school children (and pre-schoolers) as it does in America. (Aside from
    > the fact that brie is probably not outside French children's experience,
    > as it generally is among kids here in the U.S.)

It's certainly not outside my granddaughters' experience. The older one, 10,
won't share her escargot or creme brulee, but she did give me a bite of her
magret d' canard once! ;-)

Tim

Evelynvogtgamble

Hatunen wrote:
    >
    > On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 21:04:28 GMT, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
    > wrote:
    >
    > >My mother, until her dying day, could not understand why I chose NOT to
    > >pursue a career in public school teaching, because "Look at those short
    > >hours and long vacations!" (I know - every teacher here is falling
    > >about with laughter at that perception!) She looked at the nine AM to
    > >three PM period that school was officially in session, and no one had
    > >ever told her about lesson plans or the time required for devising tests
    > >and grading papers, not to mention overseeing "extra curricular"
    > >activities, attending PTA (Parent-Teacher Association) meetings, and all
    > >the thousand and one other little tasks that fill considerably more than
    > >eight hours a day for any conscientious teacher. (Or the fact that
    > >"those long vacations" were unpaid, which was the reason not only
    > >students but also teachers sought summer jobs!)
    >
    > FWIW, some American school districts allow a teacher to spread
    > his/her pay out over 12 months...

Now, yes - but I was in college so long ago that teaching public school
music was still regarded as a "secure" career! (One of the first signs
of America's decline, IMO, was when art and music were removed from the
grade-school curriculum.) Either way, it's the same annual salary - is
it considered an advantage to manage on less money all year round,
rather than endure a three month "lean time"?

    >
    > ************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
    > * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
    > * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Evelynvogtgamble

Ryan B wrote:
    >
    > "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > >
    > > The Reid wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Following up to EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
    > > >
    > > > >I think you're speaking of hourly workers, not salaried employees (who,
    > > > >if classified as "professional staff" need not be paid for overtime at
    > > > >time and a half - or at ALL, in some cases. (The assumption being that
    > > > >seasonal overtime is taken into account when negotiating salary.)
    > > >
    > > > Most of the people I know work in financial services or local
    > > > government accountancy and none are paid overtime or any note made of
    > > > the considerable hours worked over the notional 35 or whatever.
    > > > The same certainly goes for doctors. There is a max hours law in UK
    > > > IIRC but I think it just gets ignored.
    > >
    > > My mother, until her dying day, could not understand why I chose NOT to
    > > pursue a career in public school teaching, because "Look at those short
    > > hours and long vacations!" (I know - every teacher here is falling
    > > about with laughter at that perception!) She looked at the nine AM to
    > > three PM period that school was officially in session, and no one had
    > > ever told her about lesson plans or the time required for devising tests
    > > and grading papers, not to mention overseeing "extra curricular"
    > > activities, attending PTA (Parent-Teacher Association) meetings, and all
    > > the thousand and one other little tasks that fill considerably more than
    > > eight hours a day for any conscientious teacher. (Or the fact that
    > > "those long vacations" were unpaid, which was the reason not only
    > > students but also teachers sought summer jobs!)
    >
    > And of course no other jobs require additional time beyond the tour of duty
    > hours. No planning time required, no time needed for preparing reports,
    > making travel arrangements, arranging and attending meetings with clients,
    > travel time such as driving long distances, flying time, trains, waiting in
    > airports, cancelled flight delays, time spent going out to eat meals in
    > restaurants etc etc etc. Those poor poor teachers have it so tough while
    > the rest of us are on a never ending day at the beach.

If you have THAT kind of high-powered job, one can assume you are
adequately compensated for it. Teachers' salaries are better now than
they were when I was considering the job, but I'll bet you wouldn't care
to exchange salaries, however "hard done by" you may feel!

Evelynvogtgamble

Mxsmanic wrote:
    >
    > At the companies I've worked for in France, if you're sick, you call in
    > sick. After 72 hours (I think), they can ask for a medical explanation
    > for your illness, but if it is the flu or something, they usually won't.
    > If you're not sick, you're expected to come to work.

Further evidence (if any were needed) that France is a more civilized
nation than our own! If one is contemplating major surgery, or has a
really serious illness, here, the five days "sick leave" allowance is
not really adequate - and since it is "use it or lose it" the time is
frequently regarded as additional vacation time, if one has not been
required to use it for its legitimate purpose during the year. It's
true many people DO suffer colds and minor ailments at holiday time -
largely due to stress, inadequate rest and improper diet - but they are
more inclined to use their "sick time" then, sick or not, when they can
safely do so without worrying about really NEEDING the time, later in
the year.

Evelynvogtgamble

Tim Hurson wrote:
    >
    > "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > >
    > > Tim Hurson wrote:
    > > >
    > > > "Mxsmanic" wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > The Reid writes:
    > > > >
    > > > > > These are probably the same people who equate
    > > > > > dislike of McDonalds with being ungrateful for
    > > > > > US help in WW2.
    > > > >
    > > > > And the same people who don't know that France is the strongest market
    > > > > that McDonald's has right now (amazing but true).
    > > >
    > > > Then I expect to see brie in my 1/4 pounder next time.
    > >
    > > Well, that would certainly improve the product! ...Might also be
    > > feasible, since I'm sure French brie on its native turf doesn't cost
    > > nearly as much as it does here, where it's an "imported" luxury. Also,
    > > I gather that McDonald's in Europe does not aim its advertising at
    > > school children (and pre-schoolers) as it does in America. (Aside from
    > > the fact that brie is probably not outside French children's experience,
    > > as it generally is among kids here in the U.S.)
    >
    > It's certainly not outside my granddaughters' experience. The older one, 10,
    > won't share her escargot or creme brulee, but she did give me a bite of her
    > magret d' canard once! ;-)

I DID say "generally"! (On the other hand, my forty-year-old nephew,
who grew up with fast food - his parents were in the business - would
still rather go fix himself a hot-dog than share a ham or turkey dinner
with the family, even though he gets on well with the people, and his
mother is an excellent cook!)

    >
    > Tim

Miguel Cruz

Mxsmanic wrote:
    > Illnesses are not planned. If you are sick, you can't work, sick leave
    > or not. And if you are not sick, you should not be taking sick leave.
    > So the only possible purpose to sick leave is to give people extra
    > vacation that they can take by lying about their state of health.
    > At the companies I've worked for in France, if you're sick, you call in
    > sick. After 72 hours (I think), they can ask for a medical explanation
    > for your illness, but if it is the flu or something, they usually won't.
    > If you're not sick, you're expected to come to work. Since there is no
    > sick leave, there are no people who manage to be sick for exactly a
    > certain number of days each year.

Get this - I used to work at a Federal agency here in Washington. We got 10
days (i.e., two weeks) of sick leave per year.

From time to time someone would have a particularly serious injury or
illness and would exceed their sick leave allotment. On their behalf, a
co-worker could petition the human resources department to make them
eligible to receive sick leave donations from other people on staff, who
would have to give up their sick leave in order for this suffering person to
continue to be paid while they were in hospital. A friend or office-mate
would walk around from door to door in our building trying to solicit
donations of a few hours of sick time from each of us.

It was like something out of a cheesy parody.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Maldives, Dubai and Vietnam

Marie Lewis

In article , Miguel Cruz
writes
    >> At the companies I've worked for in France, if you're sick, you call in
    >> sick. After 72 hours (I think), they can ask for a medical explanation
    >> for your illness, but if it is the flu or something, they usually won't.
    >> If you're not sick, you're expected to come to work. Since there is no
    >> sick leave, there are no people who manage to be sick for exactly a
    >> certain number of days each year.
    >miguel
I have had several bouts of serious illness. I was allowed up to 6
months per year "sick leave" on full pay, then another 6 on half pay.

But, the year started again in April so it was possible to have a whole
year off on full pay.

Of course, this had to be medically upheld, and was. But How on earth
do Americans recover from major surgery if they are expected to be back
at work so quickly?


--
Marie Lewis

Marie Lewis

In article ,
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" writes
    >Or the fact that
    >"those long vacations" were unpaid, which was the reason not only
    >students but also teachers sought summer jobs!)


I do not understand this: is the salary not spread over the 12 months of
the year in the USA?

If not, why do teachers not put something aside to pay for the unpaid
time?

In the UK, salaries for teachers are divided by 12 so there is never any
"unpaid" time.
--
Marie Lewis

Marie Lewis

In article , Ryan B
writes
    >And of course no other jobs require additional time beyond the tour of duty
    >hours. No planning time required, no time needed for preparing reports,
    >making travel arrangements, arranging and attending meetings with clients,
    >travel time such as driving long distances, flying time, trains, waiting in
    >airports, cancelled flight delays, time spent going out to eat meals in
    >restaurants etc etc etc. Those poor poor teachers have it so tough while
    >the rest of us are on a never ending day at the beach.


You truly underestimate the work done by teachers. Teachers also have
to attend meetings, drive long distances, (of course the poor things do
not have to have meals in restaurants - they have to pay for their own)
and so on.

When I was teaching, I truly had no time at all for any hobby, sport or
leisure pursuits. I worked every day and every evening. Oh, I allowed
myself a couple of hours off at weekends. Sorry.

Non teachers truly have no concept of the work teachers do - and in the
UK they do not have that long summer holiday, either.
--
Marie Lewis

Marie Lewis

In article , Mxsmanic
writes
    >EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) writes:
    >> She looked at the nine AM to three PM period that
    >> school was officially in session ...
    >In France, it really is a 9-to-5 job, from what I understand.
    >French teachers have gone on strike twelve times since the beginning of
    >this school year.
But they have terrible working practices where they more or less have to
work where they are sent.
--
Marie Lewis

Padraig Breathnach

[email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:

    >Get this - I used to work at a Federal agency here in Washington. We got 10
    >days (i.e., two weeks) of sick leave per year.
    >From time to time someone would have a particularly serious injury or
    >illness and would exceed their sick leave allotment. On their behalf, a
    >co-worker could petition the human resources department to make them
    >eligible to receive sick leave donations from other people on staff, who
    >would have to give up their sick leave in order for this suffering person to
    >continue to be paid while they were in hospital. A friend or office-mate
    >would walk around from door to door in our building trying to solicit
    >donations of a few hours of sick time from each of us.
    >It was like something out of a cheesy parody.
I am shocked.

Is this typical of public service employment in the US?

PB

Go Fig

In article ,
[email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:

    > Mxsmanic wrote:
    > > Illnesses are not planned. If you are sick, you can't work, sick leave
    > > or not. And if you are not sick, you should not be taking sick leave.
    > > So the only possible purpose to sick leave is to give people extra
    > > vacation that they can take by lying about their state of health.
    > >
    > > At the companies I've worked for in France, if you're sick, you call in
    > > sick. After 72 hours (I think), they can ask for a medical explanation
    > > for your illness, but if it is the flu or something, they usually won't.
    > > If you're not sick, you're expected to come to work. Since there is no
    > > sick leave, there are no people who manage to be sick for exactly a
    > > certain number of days each year.
    >
    > Get this - I used to work at a Federal agency here in Washington. We got 10
    > days (i.e., two weeks) of sick leave per year.
    >
    > From time to time someone would have a particularly serious injury or
    > illness and would exceed their sick leave allotment. On their behalf, a
    > co-worker could petition the human resources department to make them
    > eligible to receive sick leave donations from other people on staff,

It's not limited to just immediate co-workers. In the DoJ, anyway, it's
the entire dept that donate their hours to this pool.

jay
Sat, Jun 14, 2003
mailto:[email protected]





who
    > would have to give up their sick leave in order for this suffering person to
    > continue to be paid while they were in hospital. A friend or office-mate
    > would walk around from door to door in our building trying to solicit
    > donations of a few hours of sick time from each of us.
    >
    > It was like something out of a cheesy parody.
    >
    > miguel

--

Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

Mxsmanic

Padraig Breathnach writes:

    > Is this typical of public service employment in the US?

It is typical of all employment in the U.S., except that most companies
don't allow people to donate sick leave to each other.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Mxsmanic

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) writes:

    > ... I was in college so long ago that teaching public
    > school music was still regarded as a "secure" career!

What is a "secure" career? I don't think I've ever heard that term.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.