Originally Posted by Tumbling_Dice

What should, in my humble estimation, have happened (given it was an advisory vote) is that the government should have used the result to start a national conversation on what the hell it meant. I am no longer sure it was as clear cut as it seemed, but there is no doubt that the ensuing madness and bitter exchanges have caused people to dig in. As an aside, this would likely have also started a much needed conversation on how the UK sees itself, what it wants to be, desperately needed political reform etc. All this should have happened, and a fleshed out vision for the future developed, before triggering A50 (if that would have even been needed). I mean, who goes into negotiations without an agreed negotiating position?

Originally Posted by Shard

Parliament is doing it's best to save ill informed voters from themselves. ​​​

Originally Posted by Shard

Exactly, right back at you. My heart absolutely sank when that vacuous robot stood on the steps of Number 10 and said "Brexit means Brexit". Her incompetence for the role is now breathtaking. So much could have been achiveved if a national conversation were started. Control freak May did her utmost to force an ill fitting solution on Parliament and the country, and if were not for Gina Miller, the debacle would all have occurred behind closed doors. There has been digging in on both sides. Remainers refusing to compromise an inch on the existing well-crafted position, and Leavers now espousing a No Deal calamity as exactly what they had intended. What I hope for now is an election (prior to the Brexit deadline - which in reality could be postponed further were there will to do so) and a final chance for the country to have the informed debate that is now possible.

Originally Posted by dave_j

Simply an example of how arrogant these people are.
As an MP I find that you don't agree with my position, but I'm in charge so I'm right and it's my duty to convince you otherwise and if I can't do that then I'll ignore you completely.
And this from a group of people who've been shown, time and time again, to exploit their status to rip off the UK with their fraud and expense practices and from time to time, when prompted from overseas, to invade the odd middle eastern country.

Originally Posted by dave_j

Simply an example of how arrogant these people are.
As an MP I find that you don't agree with my position, but I'm in charge so I'm right and it's my duty to convince you otherwise and if I can't do that then I'll ignore you completely.

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian

Are you able to explain what is wrong with the agreement negotiated by May (from your perspective alone accepting that Brexit has to happen)?

Originally Posted by BristolUK

Or put another way with a simple reversal of the letters M and P

Originally Posted by Shard

For the prize of a weaker economy and reduced global influence, no freedom of movement. It's a well meaning compromise to satisfy the ill-informed and the anti-Europeans. Nevertheless, if the country were asked again, and despite the three years of shambles wanted such a future, I would reluctantly accept it as a democratic choice.

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian

Maybe, but England isn't making noises about breaking up the union and I stand by my position that most in England really won't care.

Having patrolled NI prior to the Good Friday Agreement I know that, in those times, virtually everyone felt one way or the other, as result of events that related to events that occurred prior to Brexit. I have no idea if that has changed, but I doubt it.

The recent independence referendum in Scotland showed what the position was then and, while that may have changed since, polls suggest otherwise. My experience of having to deal with lots of Scots resulted from my time in the Army and, when I first met them, I was taken aback by how their views of the English had been affected by what they had learned in school. My recollection of school history was that there was no mention of anything related to the battles between the two countries. I have never experienced any animosity towards Scots from the English, but I have experienced lots that went the other way. So I accept that Scots may feel very differently towards the English than the English about the Scots.

I would argue that most in Wales really don't care but I accept that residents of rural north Wales hate the English with a passion. Whether that is because of events from centuries ago, or more recent events, is debatable but, again, politicians aside, I have no experience of the Welsh wanting to break away from the UK and go it alone.

One never hears of the Scots having an issue with the Welsh, or those in NI, or the Welsh having an issue with those in NI or Scotland. I accept that those in NI that wish to have a united Ireland always refer to "Brits" rather than the "English." As a result of this, I believe that Scotland has an issue with "England" rather than with NI or Wales, but I accept that I may be wrong.

I believe that most English identify as being "British", most Scots identify as being "Scottish", most in Wales are somewhat ambivalent between being "Welsh" and being "British" and those in NI will identify as either "Irish" or "British" along sectarian grounds.

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty

AC, you're a good man, but I'm I afraid that goes down as an astonishingly patronising post. I honestly expected much better of you. I'm virtually speechless,

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian

So you wish to remain in the EU, that is obvious but, above, amongst the name calling, you implied that May's deal was not good at all. What you appear to have wanted her to do was to ignore the result of the referendum.

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian

I sincerely apologise for any offence caused and that certainly wasn't my intention. I can only speak to my experience.

I shall stop digging now.