PM Boris

Old Aug 12th 2019, 1:41 pm
  #136  
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Default Re: PM Boris

I have been following this thread with interest. I don't pretend to understand the full implications of leaving the EU however, given the diverse opinions featured here I think I can be excused on that lack of understanding. One question I do have is in relation the apparent stumbling block, the 'backstop' and the Irish border. Boris seems to think it's simply a means of keeping the UK stuck in the EU by hook or by crook. It was pointed out to me the other day that Switzerland is bordered by five EU countries.....and no hard border with any of them. Why the apparent intransigence from the EU wanting to maintain the backstop? On the face of it, does this lend credence to the opinion held by Boris and many others that it's simply a ploy to shackle the UK to the EU after the UK leaves?
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Old Aug 12th 2019, 1:47 pm
  #137  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by macadian View Post
I have been following this thread with interest. I don't pretend to understand the full implications of leaving the EU however, given the diverse opinions featured here I think I can be excused on that lack of understanding. One question I do have is in relation the apparent stumbling block, the 'backstop' and the Irish border. Boris seems to think it's simply a means of keeping the UK stuck in the EU by hook or by crook. It was pointed out to me the other day that Switzerland is bordered by five EU countries.....and no hard border with any of them. Why the apparent intransigence from the EU wanting to maintain the backstop? On the face of it, does this lend credence to the opinion held by Boris and many others that it's simply a ploy to shackle the UK to the EU after the UK leaves?
There certainly is a hard border with Switzerland.
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Old Aug 12th 2019, 1:51 pm
  #138  
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Default Re: PM Boris

If that's the case, I stand corrected.
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Old Aug 12th 2019, 1:55 pm
  #139  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by macadian View Post
If that's the case, I stand corrected.
If you're going to be corrected you may as well sit, much more comfortable

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Old Aug 12th 2019, 2:01 pm
  #140  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse View Post
If you're going to be corrected you may as well sit, much more comfortable

Well, I'm a stand up kind of guy...😝
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Old Aug 12th 2019, 2:09 pm
  #141  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by macadian View Post
Well, I'm a stand up kind of guy...😝
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Old Aug 12th 2019, 2:12 pm
  #142  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by macadian View Post
I have been following this thread with interest. I don't pretend to understand the full implications of leaving the EU however, given the diverse opinions featured here I think I can be excused on that lack of understanding. One question I do have is in relation the apparent stumbling block, the 'backstop' and the Irish border. Boris seems to think it's simply a means of keeping the UK stuck in the EU by hook or by crook. It was pointed out to me the other day that Switzerland is bordered by five EU countries.....and no hard border with any of them. Why the apparent intransigence from the EU wanting to maintain the backstop? On the face of it, does this lend credence to the opinion held by Boris and many others that it's simply a ploy to shackle the UK to the EU after the UK leaves?
The border issue with Ireland is far more contentious because of the Troubles. The sticking point is that under the backstop, if UK and EU cannot resolve the border issue, then NI is locked in to the Single Market, and the UK is locked in to the Customs Union indefinitely. Boris claims there are myriad technical solutions to preclude any need for a border in which case you would think he would be perfectly ready to accept the backstop. Unless of course he is bluffing. In my view, if Britain insists on Brexit it should agreed to a border in the Irish Sea (as the EU) proposes, and accept that in all likelihood reunification in Ireland.
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Old Aug 12th 2019, 2:21 pm
  #143  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
the bull's cajones
This made me giggle more than it should have.

Probably because I have a cajon - I regularly beat it with my hands while other people in the room are playing with their instruments. It takes cojones to play a cajon in public, though...

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Old Aug 12th 2019, 2:54 pm
  #144  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
accept that in all likelihood reunification in Ireland.
The Conservatives cannot do that as the depend on the Unionists for their majority.
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Old Aug 12th 2019, 3:36 pm
  #145  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
The border issue with Ireland is far more contentious because of the Troubles. The sticking point is that under the backstop, if UK and EU cannot resolve the border issue, then NI is locked in to the Single Market, and the UK is locked in to the Customs Union indefinitely. Boris claims there are myriad technical solutions to preclude any need for a border in which case you would think he would be perfectly ready to accept the backstop. Unless of course he is bluffing. In my view, if Britain insists on Brexit it should agreed to a border in the Irish Sea (as the EU) proposes, and accept that in all likelihood reunification in Ireland.
What do you believe the outcome will be if, by October 31, the UK and the EU have not been able to reach an agreement that requires them to reach a different agreement at a later date, if, as the EU suggests, a hard border has to be imposed between NI and Ireland?
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Old Aug 12th 2019, 3:41 pm
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Default Re: PM Boris

This sums it up well:

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Old Aug 12th 2019, 4:44 pm
  #147  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian View Post
What do you believe the outcome will be if, by October 31, the UK and the EU have not been able to reach an agreement that requires them to reach a different agreement at a later date, if, as the EU suggests, a hard border has to be imposed between NI and Ireland?
Hard to say. The issue definitely gives the EU significant leverage in a trade negotiations, particularly as the US seems to be sticking its nose into the issue. My guess is that Irish reunification would precede any attempt at a physical border (apparently NI public mood is shifting away from Britain and towards the EU given the risk of a divided island again). However, both the UK and EU may trial a (tech supported) trade border and assess how that goes.
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Old Aug 12th 2019, 4:47 pm
  #148  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
The Conservatives cannot do that as the depend on the Unionists for their majority.
At the moment. New election, new arithmetic.
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Old Aug 12th 2019, 5:23 pm
  #149  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty View Post
There certainly is a hard border with Switzerland.
There were passport controls when I crossed in 2002 but since then Switzerland has become a member of Schengen so no more passport controls. There is also free movement of goods and people. Big difference of course is that Switzerland has a free trade agreement with the EU, something which the UK has yet to negotiate despite Liam Fox saying it would be the easiest trade deal in history.
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Old Aug 12th 2019, 5:24 pm
  #150  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
Hard to say. The issue definitely gives the EU significant leverage in a trade negotiations, particularly as the US seems to be sticking its nose into the issue. My guess is that Irish reunification would precede any attempt at a physical border (apparently NI public mood is shifting away from Britain and towards the EU given the risk of a divided island again). However, both the UK and EU may trial a (tech supported) trade border and assess how that goes.
Is anyone in NI seriously proposing cutting ties with Westminster and uniting Ireland and, if so, is anyone taking them seriously?

Does anyone know what process would be required?

I take a very different view to you regarding the border issue giving the EU significant leverage. I believe it will have the exact opposite effect the closer the parties get to October 31, as I don't believe that the likes of Germany will allow their trade with the UK to be tanked by an issue at the Irish border that could be easily overcome. Full marks to the EU for remaining "together" at this time (at least in public) but I would expect that to change the nearer we get to October 31, particularly if the only real issue between the parties is the backstop.
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