PM Boris

Old Jul 26th 2019, 5:35 pm
  #76  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by dbd33
No, and the idea that it is true demeans the political process and excuses the likes of BoJo. Many politicians do well financially from politics but that does not make them equivalent to those, such as Trump, who are solely concerned with themselves. Thatcher, for example, was not motivated by personal gain; she genuinely thought she was serving the country.
I'd like to think you have a point but evidence points in a different direction.
Thatcher, for example, was driven by personal dogma not the health of the country. Personal gain is not necessarily monetary gain but can be a perverted obsession with power. Her policies took from those who had little and gave it to those who had more.
Other leaders convince themselves they're acting for the common good, even as those they serve starve.
Johnson has been described as clown, buffoon, lazy, incompetent, womaniser etc, etc but now he's PM he's suddenly machiavellian, scheming, self serving etc, etc. He's a political animal, just like all the other alligators in the swamp.
We will have to wait to see if he's a lucky alligator because some get themselves eaten by others.

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Old Jul 26th 2019, 5:44 pm
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
His government is running huge deficits despite the fact that the economy is doing well, well in excess of those he campaigned on;
The children that are benefitting from the huge amounts that are being paid to their parents via Canada Child Benefit (why a family with an income of $150,000 needs any such benefits is beyond me) will likely be lumbered with having to pay it all back when they become liable for taxes in the future;
The way that he has completely failed to deal with the issue of climate change (I accept he has imposed a carbon tax but that will do little to deal with the issue);
The way his office handled, is still handling, the SNC Lavalin affair;
The way he despatched 2 prominent ministers simply because they refused to bow to his wishes;
The way he has handled the fact that two Canadians are being held by China; and
His total lack of response when China decided to make ridiculous arguments regarding imports from Canada.

I would put it another way, other than the huge amounts he has given to those that really don't need it (see CCB comments above), what has he done in his 4 years that you would deem to have been a success?
Lovely, thanks. Those mostly appear to be policies with which you disagree. I don't think any of them - while they may not gel with your sentiments - amount to indications that he is not up to the job.

I agree that his government has been somewhat inept in its handling of relations with China. Although, as I suspect you know, more progress is likely to be made in diplomatic channels outside the public view, and I'm quite sure there will have been representations through those channels about the spurious tariffs and restrictions that China has placed on Canadian farm produce. Conversely, both Trudeau and Freeland have done pretty well dealing with the Trump administration, which while it's been full of bluster has got away with damaging Canada less (with the exception of steel and aluminium tariffs) than it has almost any other national administration.

The SNC Lavalin investigation/prosecution appears to me to have ended with a victory for the rule of law over political interference. For sure, Trudeau and his office didn't handle the communication well, and he lost two good ministers as a result of that mismanagement. Both Philpott and Wilson-Raybould resigned over a matter of principle, which is more or less what you'd expect to happen when a senior cabinet member disagrees with the position of the government.

I would not have chosen to enact the child benefit legislation the way the government has done so. But again, that's a policy disagreement, not an indication of unfitness for office.

Conversely, I think the way Trudeau has imposed a carbon tax on those provinces whose governments are so pig-headedly ignorant as to have ignored the need for immediate and decisive action on climate change is an excellent thing. Andrew Scheer voted against Canada's ratification of the Paris Accord in 2016. I note that you're in Alberta, whose government has, in a manner right up there with the behaviour of the most petulant three-year-olds, undone a slew of environmental legislation simply because it had been enacted by the previous government. Mr Kenney, to whom Mr Scheer appears to answer on environmental matters, is well known for his vacillation and equivocation on anthropogenic climate change.

You asked where the current government has succeeded. Off the top of my head, I'd say benefits have included legislation to reinforce the independence of Statistics Canada, to appoint the first federal Chief Science Officer, to restore oversight of Elections Canada to Parliament rather than Government, adn other administrative changes. Concluding the negotiations for CETA and ratifying the protocol, rather than throwing out the previous Conservative government's efforts, is another (it should also be noted that Harper's government acted in good faith in doing the legwork for this after the groundwork was laid down in the Canada-EU summit of 2004 under Paul Martin's premiership). Negotiating the USMCA and the interim discussions surrounding NAFTA would be in there too.

Of course, there have been political failures as well. The most egregious, IMO, is the failure to enact any reform to the electoral process, especially after making clear platform promises that the 2015 election would be the last held under a first-past-the-post system. That is very disappointing, but I don't think speaks to Trudeau's unsuitability or unreadiness for the job of prime minister.

The whole "he's just not ready" meme was always a weak and lazy jibe. It's even less appropriate now he's actually been prime minister for four years. How much experience does Andrew Scheer have of managing anything?

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Old Jul 26th 2019, 6:02 pm
  #78  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by Oakvillian
It would be splendid if you could give us some indication of why you think Trudeau is "not up to the job" beyond the silly tropes of the attack ads the Cons are gearing up to wheel out again in this election cycle. They clearly didn't work for the last election, and I'm surprised Scheer - the consummate political nonentity - has the gall to sanction their use this time around. That's a tactic that could backfire horribly; Sheer's clearly genuinely not up to the job of leading his own party, as he appears to be entirely subservient to the two loudest Provincial premiers in Kenny and Ford.

On edit to bring things somewhere close to back on topic: Boris is interested in nothing except the perception of his own success. He has no principles whatsoever, so if it looks as though public sentiment is in favour of abandoning Brexit altogether, he'lll stuff his entire Brexit-themed Cabinet and claim to be fighting "for the will of the people" as he triggers the motion to rescind Article 50. I don't think that'll actually happen (although nothing wrong with a bit of fanciful wishful thinking), but if Johnson thought it would make him more popular, he'd argue that the moon is made of green cheese.
Well AC kind of replied for me...thank you AC

I think the the huge federal debt he is running up, is enough alone, and I just don't think he is a good representative for Canada, I don't think he has the intellect or the experience for a start to represent a country on the world stage....and seems to struggle to make a decision or respond promptly and confidently to political issues, again I believe he means well and he is pretty harmless in comparison compared to the likes of Trump who is dangerous and deluded to say the least, I just think we could do a whole lot better for PM... I wasn't a massive fan of Harper, but he was a better representative for Canada on the world stage.

As for Boris....yes the UK could have done a whole lot better too, it does worry in that I think he is like most modern politicians now.....in it for himself, unlike the old school politicians who were about serving the country. I guess we will have to to see how he behaves, I am always willing to give most a chance regardless of my personal political beliefs. Only exception I would make to that rule is Corbyn, that man is astoundingly delusional, I have no idea why the labour party have him as their leader and for so long!
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Old Jul 26th 2019, 6:03 pm
  #79  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by dave_j
Johnson has been described as clown, buffoon, lazy, incompetent, womaniser etc, etc but now he's PM he's suddenly machiavellian, scheming, self serving etc .
Seriously? If you think that it is only "now" then you haven't been paying attention for the last two or three years.

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Old Jul 26th 2019, 6:11 pm
  #80  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd
I don't think he has the intellect or the experience for a start to represent a country on the world stage....!
.
Apart from Boris, which national leaders would you characterize as intellectuals?
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Old Jul 26th 2019, 6:15 pm
  #81  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by Oakvillian
Lovely, thanks. Those mostly appear to be policies with which you disagree. I don't think any of them - while they may not gel with your sentiments - amount to indications that he is not up to the job.

I agree that his government has been somewhat inept in its handling of relations with China. Although, as I suspect you know, more progress is likely to be made in diplomatic channels outside the public view, and I'm quite sure there will have been representations through those channels about the spurious tariffs and restrictions that China has placed on Canadian farm produce. Conversely, both Trudeau and Freeland have done pretty well dealing with the Trump administration, which while it's been full of bluster has got away with damaging Canada less (with the exception of steel and aluminium tariffs) than it has almost any other national administration.

The SNC Lavalin investigation/prosecution appears to me to have ended with a victory for the rule of law over political interference. For sure, Trudeau and his office didn't handle the communication well, and he lost two good ministers as a result of that mismanagement. Both Philpott and Wilson-Raybould resigned over a matter of principle, which is more or less what you'd expect to happen when a senior cabinet member disagrees with the position of the government.

I would not have chosen to enact the child benefit legislation the way the government has done so. But again, that's a policy disagreement, not an indication of unfitness for office.

Conversely, I think the way Trudeau has imposed a carbon tax on those provinces whose governments are so pig-headedly ignorant as to have ignored the need for immediate and decisive action on climate change is an excellent thing. Andrew Scheer voted against Canada's ratification of the Paris Accord in 2016. I note that you're in Alberta, whose government has, in a manner right up there with the behaviour of the most petulant three-year-olds, undone a slew of environmental legislation simply because it had been enacted by the previous government. Mr Kenney, to whom Mr Scheer appears to answer on environmental matters, is well known for his vacillation and equivocation on anthropogenic climate change.

You asked where the current government has succeeded. Off the top of my head, I'd say benefits have included legislation to reinforce the independence of Statistics Canada, to appoint the first federal Chief Science Officer, to restore oversight of Elections Canada to Parliament rather than Government, adn other administrative changes. Concluding the negotiations for CETA and ratifying the protocol, rather than throwing out the previous Conservative government's efforts, is another (it should also be noted that Harper's government acted in good faith in doing the legwork for this after the groundwork was laid down in the Canada-EU summit of 2004 under Paul Martin's premiership). Negotiating the USMCA and the interim discussions surrounding NAFTA would be in there too.

Of course, there have been political failures as well. The most egregious, IMO, is the failure to enact any reform to the electoral process, especially after making clear platform promises that the 2015 election would be the last held under a first-past-the-post system. That is very disappointing, but I don't think speaks to Trudeau's unsuitability or unreadiness for the job of prime minister.

The whole "he's just not ready" meme was always a weak and lazy jibe. It's even less appropriate now he's actually been prime minister for four years. How much experience does Andrew Scheer have of managing anything?
I can agree with virtually all of what you have said. I have never expressed any admiration of Scheer.

I suspect that you may not know how Kenney intends to deal with "climate change" issues in Alberta. I am no fan of his either, but, if you take a few moments to learn what it is that he is proposing, I believe that you will find it hard to disagree that it is likely to have more of an effect of achieving the goals, that it appears most in the civilised world wish to achieve, when compared to simply taxing everyone at such a low level so as to have almost no prospect of hitting those goals.

I am not a lefty or a righty. I see myself more as a "if it looks like it will work - it is good and should be supported" rather than holding onto any form of ideological banner and refusing to accept what others may think.
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Old Jul 26th 2019, 7:38 pm
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by dbd33
Apart from Boris, which national leaders would you characterize as intellectuals?
Are you talking national or international or past or present? There isn't a lot to choose from nowadays! and the people that possess these qualities are not leaders, or even politicians.

A leader doesn't need to be an intellectual, but obviously must have a certain level for that job combined with statesmanship qualities.
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Old Jul 26th 2019, 9:17 pm
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by Paul_Shepherd
A leader doesn't need to be an intellectual, but obviously must have a certain level for that job combined with statesmanship qualities.
So that puts Trudeau miles ahead of Trump then.
(not that difficult obviously) I've not seen Trudeau push past any prime ministers.





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Old Jul 27th 2019, 6:32 am
  #84  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty
Some wit pointed out that Johnson was elected PM with 92,000 votes. Boaty McBoatface won with 124,000 votes but that was overruled because it was stupid.
more karma. That cracked me up , it did.

I voted Boaty McBoatface.
I felt such a name would pull people & families in to actually follow and care about some stuff, perhaps. Mind you the name Attenborough should do the same but maybe not with younger folk and it is the young ones now that need to engage .
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Old Jul 29th 2019, 2:30 pm
  #85  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by BEVS
more karma. That cracked me up , it did.

I voted Boaty McBoatface.
I felt such a name would pull people & families in to actually follow and care about some stuff, perhaps. Mind you the name Attenborough should do the same but maybe not with younger folk and it is the young ones now that need to engage .
I'm hopeful that Boaty McBoatface will continue to capture the imagination of the public. While the ship was named RRS Sir David Attenborough (and is currently nearing the completion of fitting out, after the hull was launched by Attenborough himself almost exactly a year ago), one of the NOC's autonomous submersibles, used extensively by the BAS, is indeed called Boaty McBoatface https://noc.ac.uk/education/educatio...aty-mcboatface
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Old Aug 6th 2019, 9:01 pm
  #86  
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Default Re: PM Boris

As much as I'd like to, I simply can't allow this thread to slip away like some old long lost smelly sock with a hole in it.
Time is passing and we still don't know whether those rarities, the bull's cajones, will come to rest to the east or the west of the English Channel, or La Manche as those non-english speakers among us would prefer.
In the Blue Corner you have the would-be son of Boudicca (even if he's really a hun) who would see himself as St George slaying the dragon.
And in the Red Corner you have none other but the dragon himself, spitting fire from across the sea and trampling under claw any who would seek to quench the flames.
But those cajones.. at the moment they're drifting aimlessly through the channel, drifting with the tides unable to make up their minds who deserves them the most.
Will it be Sir Boris the Bold or Smaug the Greedy, hoarder of gold and jewels?
It's still warm.. but winter is coming..
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Old Aug 7th 2019, 7:08 am
  #87  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by dave_j
As much as I'd like to, I simply can't allow this thread to slip away like some old long lost smelly sock with a hole in it.
Time is passing and we still don't know whether those rarities, the bull's cajones, will come to rest to the east or the west of the English Channel, or La Manche as those non-english speakers among us would prefer.
In the Blue Corner you have the would-be son of Boudicca (even if he's really a hun) who would see himself as St George slaying the dragon.
And in the Red Corner you have none other but the dragon himself, spitting fire from across the sea and trampling under claw any who would seek to quench the flames.
But those cajones.. at the moment they're drifting aimlessly through the channel, drifting with the tides unable to make up their minds who deserves them the most.
Will it be Sir Boris the Bold or Smaug the Greedy, hoarder of gold and jewels?
It's still warm.. but winter is coming..
Jacob Ree-Smaug?
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Old Aug 7th 2019, 2:51 pm
  #88  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty
Jacob Ree-Smaug?
very good..

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Old Aug 8th 2019, 3:35 pm
  #89  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by dave_j
very good..
What I find rather bizarre is at this time of national urgency with the clock ticking, the MPs are on their August hols?! Very, very hard to believe.
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Old Aug 8th 2019, 4:12 pm
  #90  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by Shard
What I find rather bizarre is at this time of national urgency with the clock ticking, the MPs are on their August hols?! Very, very hard to believe.
What's the urgency? The PM has said it will happen "come what may" and it would appear that the EU is not prepared to move from its current position, which has already been rejected by Parliament on 3 previous occasions. If you believe that there is a solution that doesn't involve the EU changing its position, that will be able to get through Parliament, I suggest you courier it to the PM's office asap.

Like it or not, it is looking like the UK will leave the EU later this year without any form of agreement, which, of course, has already been agreed by Parliament. The UK and the EU being able to agree upon any form of withdrawal agreement is a bonus but the exit will happen, notwithstanding the fact that those that didn't like the outcome of referendum wish to avoid the exit.

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