Almost Canadian

I appreciate that the EU wishes to maintain cohesion amongst its members, at least at this time.

The comments I made above were in response to the suggestion that the EU wanted to deal with all matters at the same time (including discussing a trade agreement), something that the facts show is demonstrably untrue.

I accept that, from a trade perspective, the EU is way more powerful than the UK is, in some ways. One could argue that its size restricts it from being as flexible as the UK on its own.

But, one only has to look at how it has reacted to issues such as Iran breaching its nuclear obligations (which the EU seems to accept that the US is correct about) to see that, like other huge organisations such as the UN, it lacks the will to do anything other than "strongly condemn" Iran's actions. Of course, history shows that states such as Iran always give in to such condemnation.

Shard

You're joking right? We'll be America's chief lapdog post Brexit. Already happening the Gulf.

Shard

Are you glued to Fox News? Absolute nonsense on Iran. Bolton is forcing Iran into a corner, something that would be far less likely to happen were Britain not nervous about Brexit and fully committed to the EU.

dave_j

That remains to be seen, but I remember that the UK said No to the US in a meaningful expression of independence when Harold Wilson refused to send troops to Vietnam.. and the UK wasn't then part of the EU. I suspect that Wilson still remembered how badly the US had treated the UK following WW2 and recognised the US for what it was.
We'll have to see whether backbone is still present in UK political circles these days, they could certainly do with a few lessons on history.

dbd33

Boris, backbone? Not in this context, he's prone before any of Trump's courtiers.

Almost Canadian

Are you suggesting that it is nonsense that Iran has breached its obligations or that the EU has admitted that Iran has?

Tumbling_Dice

I have to disagree with this. The vote was for the UK to leave the EU, not parts of it.

I am from NI, and a unionist. I have, however, long been of the opinion that if there was a case for a united Ireland, I would be prepared to listen. No party, Northern or Southern, that desires a united Ireland, has put forth any kind of reason or vision beyond "Brits Out". The SNP at least have a vision and reasons they believe are routed in economic and political reality. They produced that rather large tome, erroneous though some of its assumptions were. No Irish party has done anything like that work. So, long winded way of saying, especially in light of the Brexit shambles, a united Ireland is a very long way off, if ever. Varadkar realises that.

None of which is to say that Boris and co, and our rubbish parliamentarians, don't need to pull the finger out.

dave_j

As we have seen, the major problem with referenda is that outcomes are frequently uncertain, dependant as they are on a number of factors.
When I was a teenager I shared a few drinks with a pair of catholics from NI. I have to say two things stamped themselves on my memory. The first was the shocking emotional invective that they showed, the second was a description of the discrimination they said was their experience. Thus would have been before the troubles in about 1965 and they may or may not have been telling the truth.
We all know what's happened in the years since then and today we have a system at Stormont that betrays the inability of either side to accommodate the other, something that's now echoed in Brexit.
As with brexit, there comes a point when people say enough is enough and for whatever reason, logical or not, they seek tp follow a way that normalises everyday life and this could say 'yes' to a united Ireland.
But, as you all out there realise, I'm writing from the point of view as a vaguely interested outsider and as such simply can't understand, much as I couldn't understand my two catholics, views that arise from decades of personal experience that are alien to me.
But referenda.... they should carry a health notice... 'Referenda can seriously damage your perception of reality'

dave_j

Like it not, Boris turns the screw....
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49493632
Move puts Remainers into check threatens checkmate.....

Novocastrian

It's more likely to topple King Boris.

dbd33

VoNC. Pre-Brexit election. Anyone's guess what happens after that. Cameron really has been the ruin of the country.

Almost Canadian

Speaking of which:

dbd33

Ha! Can't argue with any of that.

magnumpi

dave_j

Absolutely, but at last the UK has a negotiating position with a clear exit.
Remember, the UK parliament voted to leave on 31st October (after the 6 month extension after the two week extension).
And all of this following three failed votes on an agreed bad deal and umpteen failed votes on alternative arrangements.
As I've often observed, people don't know what they want until they see what they don't want. MP's are no different and have shown themselves, so far, to be unable to make any decision that could conceivably rebound on them personally.
All being well, on 1st November either the EU will have conceded a technological solution to the Irish Border problem or everyone will be coming to terms with a no deal.
All not being well, then Remainers will have thrown a spanner at Boris and we'll be back where we were with MPs who never, in their wildest nightmares, thought that the PEOPLE would vote to leave the EU and still refuse to accept it.
One wonders whether Remainers, having learned their lesson from the referendum, dare open the Pandora's Box that'll be a General Election.
I strongly suspect that they'll bleet 'Undemocratic' but act ineptly so as to allow Boris to get his no deal in order to shout out loud 'I Told You So' if it all goes pear shaped and to make sure it does if at all possible, but then I've always been a cynic.
Either way, it'll all make very interesting TV.