PM Boris

Old Nov 6th 2019, 11:34 am
  #871  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
Perhaps I'm missing something here.
Of course.
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Old Nov 6th 2019, 11:59 am
  #872  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Here's documentation of some recent Johnson lies about the EU:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/06/brexit-has-made-britains-problems-worse-says-juncker
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Old Nov 21st 2019, 11:57 pm
  #873  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Johnson was briefed on declaring friendships before he met Jennifer Arcuri
Johnson and his staff were given compulsory training on the importance of acknowledging personal friendships months before he met the US businesswoman Jennifer Arcuri, and just after he was rebuked for failing to declare an interest with another woman, the Guardian can reveal. City Hall’s standards committee recommended the governance training after a panel found that Johnson had failed to acknowledge a personal interest in Helen Macintyre. It later emerged that Macintrye, who held an unpaid advisory post, had an extramarital affair with Johnson and gave birth to his daughter in 2008.

According to the panel’s report, in November 2010 the mayor acknowledged that he should have declared an interest and pledged to “bear in mind the definition of close associate in the future”
That decision is now being reviewed by a City Hall watchdog as part of its investigation into allegations that Johnson used his influence to favour Arcuri.
Innocent until proven guilty and all that but people have been stood down - at least temporarily - for less even in these shameless times.
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Old Nov 22nd 2019, 10:59 am
  #874  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by dave_j View Post
Perhaps I'm missing something here.
I don't remember the Leave campaign's promise to break up the UK, nor do I remember seeing a pledge to declare war on Eire. As for the claim that that the Leave campaign was going to 'cede control of the economy to Donald Trump', well that's simply a rant from the bottom of a glass of bad wine.
What I do remember reading are threats from the likes of the SNP to throw their teddy, once again, from the pram and cry foul if England votes leave, as it did in 2016, and drag Scotland into the North Sea to drown without trace.
What I also remember are threats from Irish thugs to increase their murderous conflict, that have never gone away, and revel in the exciting business of blowing arms and legs from innocent people.
The argument that the UK should vote Remain because there are minority factions who threaten mayhem if they don't get their own way is something that's muttered by shadowy people in dark places where none can hear lest they be found out.
The Leave campaign didn't promise to break up the UK, but given that two parts of the UK wanted to,stay, then that's what it turned out to be. Also the fact that trade relations have been forefront in the discussions, with the US saying that the NHS would be part of the deaal, despite Johnsons denials, but the redacted document the government provided as an answer to a FOI request by Labour, where almost every line was redacted certainly made it seem that the NHS DID feature prominently in those discussions, Johnson and Trump are cut from the same cloth where truthfulness is concerned, and both have proved it. I wouldput the chance of the NHS not being for sale in the same class as he wasn't shagging Acuri
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Old Nov 22nd 2019, 11:30 am
  #875  
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Default Re: PM Boris

As an example of how poor the Brexit debate is in the UK (amongst the media and politicians) when assertions are made about the US buying the NHS, very little real analysis is done. Wouldn't it be better for the debate to consider how Canada, for example, is able to provide public healthcare without the US buying up the entire system.
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Old Nov 22nd 2019, 11:41 am
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Default Re: PM Boris

Just the phrase “selling off our NHS”, whilst working wonderfully as an anti-Tory/Brexit soundbite, is pretty meaningless. It conjures up ideas of wholesale privatisation when the actual risks are more like potentially higher drug prices.
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Old Nov 22nd 2019, 11:43 am
  #877  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Can anyone provide an example of how the average UK citizen might benefit if US firms were allowed access to the NHS?
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Old Nov 22nd 2019, 1:04 pm
  #878  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty View Post
Can anyone provide an example of how the average UK citizen might benefit if US firms were allowed access to the NHS?
Probably not ...
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Old Nov 22nd 2019, 1:19 pm
  #879  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty View Post
Can anyone provide an example of how the average UK citizen might benefit if US firms were allowed access to the NHS?
If independent health specialists were allowed to set up in the UK, not specifically American ones but ones using an American approach, then an average citizen in need of specialized care, who is willing to pay for it, could access that care directly. The sort of thing one sees in Canada is franchised heart care and, in the US, providers of capital intensive care such as scans by MRI machines. One would have the choice of waiting for service under the NHS or selling the car and having it now. This would be something like going to Cuba for an operation but onshore.

It's a benefit to the few, those who can pay, and it makes things worse for the many as the government would doubtless use the providers as an excuse to run down the NHS, but "from the many to the few" is the crux of modern Conservatism.
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Old Nov 22nd 2019, 1:56 pm
  #880  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
If independent health specialists were allowed to set up in the UK, not specifically American ones but ones using an American approach, then an average citizen in need of specialized care, who is willing to pay for it, could access that care directly. The sort of thing one sees in Canada is franchised heart care and, in the US, providers of capital intensive care such as scans by MRI machines. One would have the choice of waiting for service under the NHS or selling the car and having it now. This would be something like going to Cuba for an operation but onshore.

It's a benefit to the few, those who can pay, and it makes things worse for the many as the government would doubtless use the providers as an excuse to run down the NHS, but "from the many to the few" is the crux of modern Conservatism.
Exactly. t'll be just like the education system in the UK. You can buy the best if you can afford it, and if you can afford to buy the best, why would you want to pay taxes to fund the rest of the plebs? I wouldn't be surprised if new private health facilities set themselves up as charities, just like private schools do, to avoid tax.

But... blue passports!!!
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Old Nov 22nd 2019, 3:37 pm
  #881  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty View Post
Can anyone provide an example of how the average UK citizen might benefit if US firms were allowed access to the NHS?
This is looking at it the wrong way around. If one applies a Trump thought process, one sees that US access to the NHS - was it "nothing is off the table" or "everything is on the table" I don't remember - would be the result of a Tory government and that means everybody in the UK would be better off. Most just wouldn't realise it.
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Old Nov 22nd 2019, 3:49 pm
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty View Post
Exactly. t'll be just like the education system in the UK. You can buy the best if you can afford it, and if you can afford to buy the best, why would you want to pay taxes to fund the rest of the plebs? I wouldn't be surprised if new private health facilities set themselves up as charities, just like private schools do, to avoid tax.

But... blue passports!!!
That's a risk, but don't we already have some degree of private healthcare in the UK already? I know that a twin tier system is against the ethos of the NHS, but surely there is a way to use private payment to fund better healthcare for all.
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Old Nov 22nd 2019, 4:02 pm
  #883  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by Shard View Post
That's a risk, but don't we already have some degree of private healthcare in the UK already? I know that a twin tier system is against the ethos of the NHS, but surely there is a way to use private payment to fund better healthcare for all.
You know that the US has a national single payer healthcare system, right? Arguably it's world's largest. You know who used it for his recent heart attack/stroke/whatever it was? Trump. There may be room for private providers in a public healthcare system; people in Canada do get treatment comparable to that available from the NHS, but there is no way that the current US administration can sell the NHS anything that's not better bought in the UK.
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Old Nov 22nd 2019, 4:10 pm
  #884  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Originally Posted by dbd33 View Post
If independent health specialists were allowed to set up in the UK, not specifically American ones but ones using an American approach, then an average citizen in need of specialized care, who is willing to pay for it, could access that care directly. The sort of thing one sees in Canada is franchised heart care and, in the US, providers of capital intensive care such as scans by MRI machines. One would have the choice of waiting for service under the NHS or selling the car and having it now. This would be something like going to Cuba for an operation but onshore.

It's a benefit to the few, those who can pay, and it makes things worse for the many as the government would doubtless use the providers as an excuse to run down the NHS, but "from the many to the few" is the crux of modern Conservatism.
This has been going on in the UK for decades. When I was a personal injury lawyer in the UK, I learned that the private care surgeons and the NHS surgeons were the same people (wearing different hats depending upon what day of the week it is) and that, when patients asked them, "When will my hip replacement operation be?" their answer was likely to be, "On the NHS, 18 months from now; if you wish to pay me privately, I can do it next week."

If you ask me, it is the perfect solution to wait times (excepting employing more surgeons on the NHS) as the one person that decides to go private, automatically frees up a place in the NHS's queue.

One can argue about how sensible it is to pay a surgeon to perform the operation privately when s/he is operating during their NHS's rest day, but if one is willing to take a chance ...
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Old Nov 22nd 2019, 4:17 pm
  #885  
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Default Re: PM Boris

Imagine you have a surgeon who can perform 10 operations a week. His NHS contract allows him to work 1 day a week privately, so he sees 2 private patients and 8 NHS patients a week.

If the NHS itself is run along more commercial lines, the 2 fully private patients will still be seen,but the 8 NHS patients will then be divided into a "pay something" or "pay nothing" camp. Meaning that those who can pay nothing (except the National Insurance) end up third class citizens, always at the back of a queue that people with money can jump. If that isn't a betrayal of what the NHS stands for, I don't know what is.
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