Let's talk about cars
Jul 11th 2013, 4:56 am
#211
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Mar 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 8,106
Re: Let's talk about cars
Subarus are generally solid cars. The driving experience is a matter of taste. They all have AWD and boxer engines, which may or may not float your boat. Subaru also uses CVTs, which almost always detract from the driving experience. (Conventional automatics, as compromised as they can be, are usually preferable to CVTs.)
The 2014 Forester will be a new model. There will be a new Outback for the 2015 model year (which means that it will be out sometime in 2014, probably in the summer or autumn.)
Subaru sales are climbing; you may find that this reduces your ability to negotiate. You should certainly consider the alternatives, particularly if you don't need AWD (which many people don't really need, even in snow country.)
The 2014 Forester will be a new model. There will be a new Outback for the 2015 model year (which means that it will be out sometime in 2014, probably in the summer or autumn.)
Subaru sales are climbing; you may find that this reduces your ability to negotiate. You should certainly consider the alternatives, particularly if you don't need AWD (which many people don't really need, even in snow country.)
I have friends who have Outbacks and love them and I have noticed that it is hard to get hold of good secondhand ones. People just seem to keep them.
Jul 11th 2013, 7:03 am
#212
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: South Florida
Posts: 2,068
Re: Let's talk about cars
It pays to be green. I did 30 miles this morning, used 2hrs of electric to recharge at a grand cost of $1 and I didn't contribute to global warming directly 
(smug mode on).
(smug mode on).
Last edited by Brit3964; Jul 11th 2013 at 7:07 am.
Jul 11th 2013, 7:11 am
#213
Bloody Yank
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 4,186
Re: Let's talk about cars
I haven't actually test driven one yet, so I can't comment on the CVT. Though from my reading around they are becoming more common probably due to their better fuel efficiency. Subaru lists their as a few mpg better than the manual.
I have friends who have Outbacks and love them and I have noticed that it is hard to get hold of good secondhand ones. People just seem to keep them.
I have friends who have Outbacks and love them and I have noticed that it is hard to get hold of good secondhand ones. People just seem to keep them.
Subarus sell in low numbers, but they also have a devoted following among those who do buy them. One reason you might have trouble finding a used one is that there weren't that many sold in the first place compared to their competition, and there isn't much else quite like them for those who are fans of the brand. It's a niche brand, for sure.
Jul 11th 2013, 8:21 am
#214
I love my brick!
Joined: May 2007
Location: Peachy
Posts: 9,304
Re: Let's talk about cars
Yes, CVTs are becoming more common because of their superior fuel economy. As far as driving them, they tend to range from tolerable to awful. You'll want to thoroughly test drive the CVT equipped cars to make sure that you can live with them.
Subarus sell in low numbers, but they also have a devoted following among those who do buy them. One reason you might have trouble finding a used one is that there weren't that many sold in the first place compared to their competition, and there isn't much else quite like them for those who are fans of the brand. It's a niche brand, for sure.
Subarus sell in low numbers, but they also have a devoted following among those who do buy them. One reason you might have trouble finding a used one is that there weren't that many sold in the first place compared to their competition, and there isn't much else quite like them for those who are fans of the brand. It's a niche brand, for sure.
It was easily the best car I've had simply because it did everything I ever needed. 1,000 mile Interstate trip, mountain roads, offroad, karting the kids around town, towing a trailer, dog in the back. Plus they are highly rated safety wise. The only criticism is the poor fuel effieciency which tended to average around 26mpg.
I can't comment on CVT though as our car didn't have it. Also they've had big sales increases recently, so aren't as much of a niche brand as you suggest.
Jul 11th 2013, 9:06 am
#215
The worse half of Weeze
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: Back in TX
Posts: 3,231
Jul 11th 2013, 9:13 am
#216
I have a comma problem
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Fox Lake, IL (from Carrickfergus NI)
Posts: 49,598
Re: Let's talk about cars
The consumer draws power from the local distribution line, which itself emerges from a local substation, fed by high voltage transmission wires on telegraph (sorry, 'utility' 
) poles coming from a nearby high voltage substation/switchyard, itself fed by high voltage pylons (sometimes themselves coming from another switchyard), from a step-up transformer in the substation fed by the local power plant.
If the local power plant is not nuclear, then I think this might actually qualify as indirectly contributing to global warming
) poles coming from a nearby high voltage substation/switchyard, itself fed by high voltage pylons (sometimes themselves coming from another switchyard), from a step-up transformer in the substation fed by the local power plant.If the local power plant is not nuclear, then I think this might actually qualify as indirectly contributing to global warming
Jul 11th 2013, 9:16 am
#217
Bloody Yank
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 4,186
Re: Let's talk about cars
So far this year, Subaru sales are about on par with Volkswagen. Subaru sold about as many vehicles as Toyota sold Camrys. (And Subaru has seven nameplates in total.) It's a relatively small player, even after this year's sales surge.
Jul 11th 2013, 9:16 am
#218
I love my brick!
Joined: May 2007
Location: Peachy
Posts: 9,304
Jul 11th 2013, 9:19 am
#220
Bloody Yank
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 4,186
Re: Let's talk about cars
The consumer draws power from the local distribution line, which itself emerges from a local substation, fed by high voltage transmission wires on telegraph (sorry, 'utility' ) poles coming from a nearby high voltage substation/switchyard, itself fed by high voltage pylons (sometimes themselves coming from another switchyard), from a step-up transformer in the substation fed by the local power plant.
If the local power plant is not nuclear, then I think this might actually qualify as indirectly contributing to global warming
) poles coming from a nearby high voltage substation/switchyard, itself fed by high voltage pylons (sometimes themselves coming from another switchyard), from a step-up transformer in the substation fed by the local power plant.If the local power plant is not nuclear, then I think this might actually qualify as indirectly contributing to global warming
Jul 11th 2013, 9:22 am
#222
The worse half of Weeze
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: Back in TX
Posts: 3,231
Re: Let's talk about cars
It's the indirectly bit I don't get. What is not direct about this? Consumer needs power, consumer takes power. The consumption by the consumer has a direct result on CO2 emissions, given the mix of power generation in this country (I'm making assumptions that FL is not 100% nuclear/renewable - and that's ignoring the life cycle CO2 cost; we'll just look at incremental/point forward emissions).
The Tesla is a great car - you don't need to indulge in greenwashing.
The Tesla is a great car - you don't need to indulge in greenwashing.
Jul 11th 2013, 9:24 am
#223
I have a comma problem
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Fox Lake, IL (from Carrickfergus NI)
Posts: 49,598
Re: Let's talk about cars
Jul 11th 2013, 9:29 am
#224
Bloody Yank
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 4,186
Re: Let's talk about cars
On a "tank to wheels" basis, the EV produces no tailpipe emissions. That's what makes Brit3--- so happy.
On a "well to wheels" basis, it isn't as clean because that measure includes the production of the energy and moving it to the point at which it enters the tank, although it still should come out ahead. (The thermal losses at the typical power production plant are less than the heat losses of an internal combustion engine.)
On a "life cycle" basis, the advantage decreases further because it accounts for the resources used to produce the vehicle, and then what can be recycled at the end. (EVs need a lot more resources to produce, but even so, they still come out ahead.)
On a "well to wheels" basis, it isn't as clean because that measure includes the production of the energy and moving it to the point at which it enters the tank, although it still should come out ahead. (The thermal losses at the typical power production plant are less than the heat losses of an internal combustion engine.)
On a "life cycle" basis, the advantage decreases further because it accounts for the resources used to produce the vehicle, and then what can be recycled at the end. (EVs need a lot more resources to produce, but even so, they still come out ahead.)
Last edited by RoadWarriorFromLP; Jul 11th 2013 at 9:31 am.
Jul 11th 2013, 10:03 am
#225
The worse half of Weeze
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: Back in TX
Posts: 3,231
Re: Let's talk about cars
On a "tank to wheels" basis, the EV produces no tailpipe emissions. That's what makes Brit3--- so happy.
On a "well to wheels" basis, it isn't as clean because that measure includes the production of the energy and moving it to the point at which it enters the tank, although it still should come out ahead. (The thermal losses at the typical power production plant are less than the heat losses of an internal combustion engine.)
On a "life cycle" basis, the advantage decreases further because it accounts for the resources used to produce the vehicle, and then what can be recycled at the end. (EVs need a lot more resources to produce, but even so, they still come out ahead.)
On a "well to wheels" basis, it isn't as clean because that measure includes the production of the energy and moving it to the point at which it enters the tank, although it still should come out ahead. (The thermal losses at the typical power production plant are less than the heat losses of an internal combustion engine.)
On a "life cycle" basis, the advantage decreases further because it accounts for the resources used to produce the vehicle, and then what can be recycled at the end. (EVs need a lot more resources to produce, but even so, they still come out ahead.)
