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Let's talk about cars

Let's talk about cars

Old Jul 11th 2013, 4:56 am
  #211  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
Subarus are generally solid cars. The driving experience is a matter of taste. They all have AWD and boxer engines, which may or may not float your boat. Subaru also uses CVTs, which almost always detract from the driving experience. (Conventional automatics, as compromised as they can be, are usually preferable to CVTs.)

The 2014 Forester will be a new model. There will be a new Outback for the 2015 model year (which means that it will be out sometime in 2014, probably in the summer or autumn.)

Subaru sales are climbing; you may find that this reduces your ability to negotiate. You should certainly consider the alternatives, particularly if you don't need AWD (which many people don't really need, even in snow country.)
I haven't actually test driven one yet, so I can't comment on the CVT. Though from my reading around they are becoming more common probably due to their better fuel efficiency. Subaru lists their as a few mpg better than the manual.

I have friends who have Outbacks and love them and I have noticed that it is hard to get hold of good secondhand ones. People just seem to keep them.
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 7:03 am
  #212  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

It pays to be green. I did 30 miles this morning, used 2hrs of electric to recharge at a grand cost of $1 and I didn't contribute to global warming directly (smug mode on).

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Old Jul 11th 2013, 7:11 am
  #213  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by sir_eccles
I haven't actually test driven one yet, so I can't comment on the CVT. Though from my reading around they are becoming more common probably due to their better fuel efficiency. Subaru lists their as a few mpg better than the manual.

I have friends who have Outbacks and love them and I have noticed that it is hard to get hold of good secondhand ones. People just seem to keep them.
Yes, CVTs are becoming more common because of their superior fuel economy. As far as driving them, they tend to range from tolerable to awful. You'll want to thoroughly test drive the CVT equipped cars to make sure that you can live with them.

Subarus sell in low numbers, but they also have a devoted following among those who do buy them. One reason you might have trouble finding a used one is that there weren't that many sold in the first place compared to their competition, and there isn't much else quite like them for those who are fans of the brand. It's a niche brand, for sure.
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 8:21 am
  #214  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
Yes, CVTs are becoming more common because of their superior fuel economy. As far as driving them, they tend to range from tolerable to awful. You'll want to thoroughly test drive the CVT equipped cars to make sure that you can live with them.

Subarus sell in low numbers, but they also have a devoted following among those who do buy them. One reason you might have trouble finding a used one is that there weren't that many sold in the first place compared to their competition, and there isn't much else quite like them for those who are fans of the brand. It's a niche brand, for sure.
The other advantages of Subarus are they are reliable and hold their value well. We had a 2005 Outback and put on about 150,000 miles and the only repair other than routine maintence was having to replace a broken CV joint after being a little too rough offroading one time.

It was easily the best car I've had simply because it did everything I ever needed. 1,000 mile Interstate trip, mountain roads, offroad, karting the kids around town, towing a trailer, dog in the back. Plus they are highly rated safety wise. The only criticism is the poor fuel effieciency which tended to average around 26mpg.

I can't comment on CVT though as our car didn't have it. Also they've had big sales increases recently, so aren't as much of a niche brand as you suggest.
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 9:06 am
  #215  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Brit3964
It pays to be green. I did 30 miles this morning, used 2hrs of electric to recharge at a grand cost of $1 and I didn't contribute to global warming directly (smug mode on).
???WTF??? And where did the power come from?
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 9:13 am
  #216  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Mr Weeze
???WTF??? And where did the power come from?
The consumer draws power from the local distribution line, which itself emerges from a local substation, fed by high voltage transmission wires on telegraph (sorry, 'utility' ) poles coming from a nearby high voltage substation/switchyard, itself fed by high voltage pylons (sometimes themselves coming from another switchyard), from a step-up transformer in the substation fed by the local power plant.

If the local power plant is not nuclear, then I think this might actually qualify as indirectly contributing to global warming
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 9:16 am
  #217  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by zargof
Also they've had big sales increases recently, so aren't as much of a niche brand as you suggest.
So far this year, Subaru sales are about on par with Volkswagen. Subaru sold about as many vehicles as Toyota sold Camrys. (And Subaru has seven nameplates in total.) It's a relatively small player, even after this year's sales surge.
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 9:16 am
  #218  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Mr Weeze
???WTF??? And where did the power come from?
Brit3964 has a bicycle powered generator in his basement.

However, he also eats Taco Bell, so does actually contribute to global warming.
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 9:18 am
  #219  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by zargof
However, he also eats Taco Bell, so does actually contribute to global warming.
Biofuel
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 9:19 am
  #220  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing
The consumer draws power from the local distribution line, which itself emerges from a local substation, fed by high voltage transmission wires on telegraph (sorry, 'utility' ) poles coming from a nearby high voltage substation/switchyard, itself fed by high voltage pylons (sometimes themselves coming from another switchyard), from a step-up transformer in the substation fed by the local power plant.

If the local power plant is not nuclear, then I think this might actually qualify as indirectly contributing to global warming
To be fair, the EVs contribute less to climate change than do conventional cars. They have much higher thermal efficiency. That doesn't mean that they contribute zero, but it is an improvement.
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 9:20 am
  #221  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing
Biofuel
I would classify Taco Bell as being more of a waste product.
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 9:22 am
  #222  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

It's the indirectly bit I don't get. What is not direct about this? Consumer needs power, consumer takes power. The consumption by the consumer has a direct result on CO2 emissions, given the mix of power generation in this country (I'm making assumptions that FL is not 100% nuclear/renewable - and that's ignoring the life cycle CO2 cost; we'll just look at incremental/point forward emissions).

The Tesla is a great car - you don't need to indulge in greenwashing.
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 9:24 am
  #223  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Mr Weeze
It's the indirectly bit I don't get. What is not direct about this?
I don't know to be honest, but it does follow a rather convoluted path to get to us and also, in the US - we don't flick a switch, it's always there. I'm not taking the blame for that
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 9:29 am
  #224  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by Mr Weeze
It's the indirectly bit I don't get.
On a "tank to wheels" basis, the EV produces no tailpipe emissions. That's what makes Brit3--- so happy.

On a "well to wheels" basis, it isn't as clean because that measure includes the production of the energy and moving it to the point at which it enters the tank, although it still should come out ahead. (The thermal losses at the typical power production plant are less than the heat losses of an internal combustion engine.)

On a "life cycle" basis, the advantage decreases further because it accounts for the resources used to produce the vehicle, and then what can be recycled at the end. (EVs need a lot more resources to produce, but even so, they still come out ahead.)

Last edited by RoadWarriorFromLP; Jul 11th 2013 at 9:31 am.
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Old Jul 11th 2013, 10:03 am
  #225  
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Default Re: Let's talk about cars

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
On a "tank to wheels" basis, the EV produces no tailpipe emissions. That's what makes Brit3--- so happy.

On a "well to wheels" basis, it isn't as clean because that measure includes the production of the energy and moving it to the point at which it enters the tank, although it still should come out ahead. (The thermal losses at the typical power production plant are less than the heat losses of an internal combustion engine.)

On a "life cycle" basis, the advantage decreases further because it accounts for the resources used to produce the vehicle, and then what can be recycled at the end. (EVs need a lot more resources to produce, but even so, they still come out ahead.)
I get all that. I just don't believe anyone would really think it makes zero contribution, unless they have a solar recharger.
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