Gibraltar
Jan 21st 2015 | 12:01 am
#2281
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,548
Re: Gibraltar
Been reading this interesting thread for some time and thought I would add to it. From what I gather Spain and EMR are concerned that Gib has a quota of 10,000, sorry, 10 (TEN) tonnes of bluefin tuna and, guess what, they are making money from it.
Also it ‘is purely profit driven and makes a mockery of Gibraltar's claims to be environmentally responsible’.
Then I have a look around and I find that ‘The Spanish tuna fishing fleet has raised a complaint against European Commissioner, Maria Damanaki for “shameful†attitude in supporting a halt on the increase of the Atlantic bluefin tuna catch quota. The bluefin limit for the Spanish fleet will remain at the 2,504 ton volume for 2014, as it was this year.’ And the ‘Spanish Ministry of Agriculture said that the efforts of Spain and the inferred consent of other member states fell on deaf ears.’
Yes, you read that right, 2,504 tonnes, and they wanted more.
But then I read that ‘the country's (SPAIN’S) fishing fleets reported having completed their 2,540 metric ton quota (2014) in under 48 hours -- a record time.
And ‘"We expect to continue seeing swarms of tuna crossing the Mediterranean until late in June," "The state of the species' stock is great, as the record, historic time in which quotas have been fished shows."
And, when talking about Gib being purely profit driven, the Spanish company I am quoting states that they ‘posted €32.4 million in sales last year, slightly lower than 2012's €35.4m, but almost doubled net profits to €0.74m.’
And ‘Serrano said the (SPANISH) company has bought an additional 450t of catches from the Basque fleet and another 100t from Andalusian longliners to meet its customers' needs.’
And "Environmental organizations must acknowledge now that stock levels are extremely healthy. It is true that six years ago there was overexploitation, but not that bluefin tuna was approaching extinction," he (Serrano) told Undercurrent.
And ‘The Spanish government hailed the record speed of this year's season."This general secretary for fishing affairs celebrates the spectacular recovery of bluefin tuna stock in a short period of time,’
And ‘For the Spanish administration there is no possible doubt or uncertainty about the recovery of the bluefin tuna stock.’
Puts Gib’s 10,000, sorry, 10 (TEN) tonnes into perspective, doesn’t it.
Also it ‘is purely profit driven and makes a mockery of Gibraltar's claims to be environmentally responsible’.
Then I have a look around and I find that ‘The Spanish tuna fishing fleet has raised a complaint against European Commissioner, Maria Damanaki for “shameful†attitude in supporting a halt on the increase of the Atlantic bluefin tuna catch quota. The bluefin limit for the Spanish fleet will remain at the 2,504 ton volume for 2014, as it was this year.’ And the ‘Spanish Ministry of Agriculture said that the efforts of Spain and the inferred consent of other member states fell on deaf ears.’
Yes, you read that right, 2,504 tonnes, and they wanted more.
But then I read that ‘the country's (SPAIN’S) fishing fleets reported having completed their 2,540 metric ton quota (2014) in under 48 hours -- a record time.
And ‘"We expect to continue seeing swarms of tuna crossing the Mediterranean until late in June," "The state of the species' stock is great, as the record, historic time in which quotas have been fished shows."
And, when talking about Gib being purely profit driven, the Spanish company I am quoting states that they ‘posted €32.4 million in sales last year, slightly lower than 2012's €35.4m, but almost doubled net profits to €0.74m.’
And ‘Serrano said the (SPANISH) company has bought an additional 450t of catches from the Basque fleet and another 100t from Andalusian longliners to meet its customers' needs.’
And "Environmental organizations must acknowledge now that stock levels are extremely healthy. It is true that six years ago there was overexploitation, but not that bluefin tuna was approaching extinction," he (Serrano) told Undercurrent.
And ‘The Spanish government hailed the record speed of this year's season."This general secretary for fishing affairs celebrates the spectacular recovery of bluefin tuna stock in a short period of time,’
And ‘For the Spanish administration there is no possible doubt or uncertainty about the recovery of the bluefin tuna stock.’
Puts Gib’s 10,000, sorry, 10 (TEN) tonnes into perspective, doesn’t it.
Jan 21st 2015 | 12:17 am
#2282
Banned
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
Re: Gibraltar
Been reading this interesting thread for some time and thought I would add to it. From what I gather Spain and EMR are concerned that Gib has a quota of 10,000, sorry, 10 (TEN) tonnes of bluefin tuna and, guess what, they are making money from it.
Also it ‘is purely profit driven and makes a mockery of Gibraltar's claims to be environmentally responsible’.
Then I have a look around and I find that ‘The Spanish tuna fishing fleet has raised a complaint against European Commissioner, Maria Damanaki for “shameful†attitude in supporting a halt on the increase of the Atlantic bluefin tuna catch quota. The bluefin limit for the Spanish fleet will remain at the 2,504 ton volume for 2014, as it was this year.’ And the ‘Spanish Ministry of Agriculture said that the efforts of Spain and the inferred consent of other member states fell on deaf ears.’
Yes, you read that right, 2,504 tonnes, and they wanted more.iw
But then I read that ‘the country's (SPAIN’S) fishing fleets reported having completed their 2,540 metric ton quota (2014) in under 48 hours -- a record time.
And ‘"We expect to continue seeing swarms of tuna crossing the Mediterranean until late in June," "The state of the species' stock is great, as the record, historic time in which quotas have been fished shows."
And, when talking about Gib being purely profit driven, the Spanish company I am quoting states that they ‘posted €32.4 million in sales last year, slightly lower than 2012's €35.4m, but almost doubled net profits to €0.74m.’
And ‘Serrano said the (SPANISH) company has bought an additional 450t of catches from the Basque fleet and another 100t from Andalusian longliners to meet its customers' needs.’
And "Environmental organizations must acknowledge now that stock levels are extremely healthy. It is true that six years ago there was overexploitation, but not that bluefin tuna was approaching extinction," he (Serrano) told Undercurrent.
What is your point.I agree that the quotas for Spain etc are too high anyway.
And ‘The Spanish government hailed the record speed of this year's season."This general secretary for fishing affairs celebrates the spectacular recovery of bluefin tuna stock in a short period of time,’
And ‘For the Spanish administration there is no possible doubt or uncertainty about the recovery of the bluefin tuna stock.’
Puts Gib’s 10,000, sorry, 10 (TEN) tonnes into perspective, doesn’t it.
Also it ‘is purely profit driven and makes a mockery of Gibraltar's claims to be environmentally responsible’.
Then I have a look around and I find that ‘The Spanish tuna fishing fleet has raised a complaint against European Commissioner, Maria Damanaki for “shameful†attitude in supporting a halt on the increase of the Atlantic bluefin tuna catch quota. The bluefin limit for the Spanish fleet will remain at the 2,504 ton volume for 2014, as it was this year.’ And the ‘Spanish Ministry of Agriculture said that the efforts of Spain and the inferred consent of other member states fell on deaf ears.’
Yes, you read that right, 2,504 tonnes, and they wanted more.iw
But then I read that ‘the country's (SPAIN’S) fishing fleets reported having completed their 2,540 metric ton quota (2014) in under 48 hours -- a record time.
And ‘"We expect to continue seeing swarms of tuna crossing the Mediterranean until late in June," "The state of the species' stock is great, as the record, historic time in which quotas have been fished shows."
And, when talking about Gib being purely profit driven, the Spanish company I am quoting states that they ‘posted €32.4 million in sales last year, slightly lower than 2012's €35.4m, but almost doubled net profits to €0.74m.’
And ‘Serrano said the (SPANISH) company has bought an additional 450t of catches from the Basque fleet and another 100t from Andalusian longliners to meet its customers' needs.’
And "Environmental organizations must acknowledge now that stock levels are extremely healthy. It is true that six years ago there was overexploitation, but not that bluefin tuna was approaching extinction," he (Serrano) told Undercurrent.
What is your point.I agree that the quotas for Spain etc are too high anyway.
And ‘The Spanish government hailed the record speed of this year's season."This general secretary for fishing affairs celebrates the spectacular recovery of bluefin tuna stock in a short period of time,’
And ‘For the Spanish administration there is no possible doubt or uncertainty about the recovery of the bluefin tuna stock.’
Puts Gib’s 10,000, sorry, 10 (TEN) tonnes into perspective, doesn’t it.
Jan 21st 2015 | 12:25 am
#2283
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,548
Re: Gibraltar
What is your point all commercial overfishing where ever it is is unacceptale. I would have no complaint if Gibraltar lived up to its environmental credentials and allowed catch and release only. It seems yet again that if it is good enough for Spain then its OK for GiB no matter how weak the case. Of course even better if there is a profit to be made. I forecast now that GiB has permitted commercial fishing run ins with the Spanish navy will increase as GiB has given them yet another excuse.
What is your point all commercial overfishing where ever it is is unacceptale.
I quote again, "Environmental organizations must acknowledge now that stock levels are extremely healthy. And, "The state of the species' stock is great, as the record, historic time in which quotas have been fished shows."
I do not support killing animals, but I must question your concerns. Are they against Gib or Bluefin tuna fishing? And don’t whine on again about Gib making a profit. The Spanish company ‘posted €32.4 million in sales last year, slightly lower than 2012's €35.4m, but almost doubled net profits to €0.74m.’
Jan 21st 2015 | 12:41 am
#2284
Banned
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 19,367
From: Mallorca
Re: Gibraltar
The tuna issue has been put to rest ad-nauseum. You just did it again.
Before that, it was gambling (which, by the way, is legal almost everywhere in Europe, and most of the world).
Failing that, it was the "tax haven" (which Gib doesn't qualify for - by any standard - although it imposes lower taxes than most of Europe, which apparently is a reason why it's bad).
Then it was "tobacco smuggling" - but that happens anywhere that tobacco is cheaper on the other side of a border from where it's expensive.
Then it was the "nuclear pollution" (which actually never happened).
Somewhere in-between there was something about global warming - which of course, Gib has nothing to do with.
You can draw your own conclusions. But thanks for supporting the show. If nothing else, it beats Jeremy Kyle.
Jan 21st 2015 | 12:57 am
#2285
Dunroaming back in UK
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 11,521
From: Expat in Yorkshire now
Re: Gibraltar
This isn't about fishing. It's a passionate desire to believe that Gibraltar is uniquely dubious in some way - somehow. But that's what keeps it entertaining.
The tuna issue has been put to rest ad-nauseum. You just did it again.
Before that, it was gambling (which, by the way, is legal almost everywhere in Europe, and most of the world).
Failing that, it was the "tax haven" (which Gib doesn't qualify for - by any standard - although it imposes lower taxes than most of Europe, which apparently is a reason why it's bad).
Then it was "tobacco smuggling" - but that happens anywhere that tobacco is cheaper on the other side of a border from where it's expensive.
Then it was the "nuclear pollution" (which actually never happened).
Somewhere in-between there was something about global warming - which of course, Gib has nothing to do with.
You can draw your own conclusions. But thanks for supporting the show. If nothing else, it beats Jeremy Kyle.
The tuna issue has been put to rest ad-nauseum. You just did it again.
Before that, it was gambling (which, by the way, is legal almost everywhere in Europe, and most of the world).
Failing that, it was the "tax haven" (which Gib doesn't qualify for - by any standard - although it imposes lower taxes than most of Europe, which apparently is a reason why it's bad).
Then it was "tobacco smuggling" - but that happens anywhere that tobacco is cheaper on the other side of a border from where it's expensive.
Then it was the "nuclear pollution" (which actually never happened).
Somewhere in-between there was something about global warming - which of course, Gib has nothing to do with.
You can draw your own conclusions. But thanks for supporting the show. If nothing else, it beats Jeremy Kyle.
Jan 21st 2015 | 1:25 am
#2286
Thread Starter
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,759
From: Land of no recession
Jan 21st 2015 | 3:28 am
#2287
Banned
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
Re: Gibraltar
I have never read such complete bollocks as the last two posts. As I stated repeatedly I believe that GiB should remain British but that there is a price for that. rules regarding tax.,business and the envirionment should be those which apply in the UK. If Gibraltar does not want to be part of the UK it should sink or swim. The UK foreign office and Government should treat GiB as it would any other country. Given that Gibraltar rather than taking the high moral ground continues. To behave in the same way as Spain why should we have any sympathy or support them.. La Mancha is right in that I do not believe that the seas of Europe should be devasted to satisfy the Japanese sushi eater. Gibraltar has no need to harvestvtuna perhaps Fred can tell us who and why the quota was. Instigated rather than just enforce a catch and release policy for sports fishing ?
Jan 21st 2015 | 4:45 am
#2288
Banned
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 19,367
From: Mallorca
Re: Gibraltar
I have never read such complete bollocks as the last two posts. As I stated repeatedly I believe that GiB should remain British but that there is a price for that. rules regarding tax.,business and the envirionment should be those which apply in the UK. If Gibraltar does not want to be part of the UK it should sink or swim. The UK foreign office and Government should treat GiB as it would any other country. Given that Gibraltar rather than taking the high moral ground continues. To behave in the same way as Spain why should we have any sympathy or support them.. La Mancha is right in that I do not believe that the seas of Europe should be devasted to satisfy the Japanese sushi eater. Gibraltar has no need to harvestvtuna perhaps Fred can tell us who and why the quota was. Instigated rather than just enforce a catch and release policy for sports fishing ?
And apparently, now Gib behaves just like Spain. Well, I reckon one could reasonably say that would be dubious, depending on which behaviors you're referring to. But just out of curiosity, since when has Gibraltar behaved anything like Spain?
Perhaps it would benefit you to read up a bit about the behaviours of the two, and the resulting tensions. Actually reading some of the information provided in this thread might be a good start.
Jan 21st 2015 | 4:55 am
#2289
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,548
Re: Gibraltar
I have never read such complete bollocks as the last two posts. As I stated repeatedly I believe that GiB should remain British but that there is a price for that. rules regarding tax.,business and the envirionment should be those which apply in the UK. If Gibraltar does not want to be part of the UK it should sink or swim. The UK foreign office and Government should treat GiB as it would any other country. Given that Gibraltar rather than taking the high moral ground continues. To behave in the same way as Spain why should we have any sympathy or support them.. La Mancha is right in that I do not believe that the seas of Europe should be devasted to satisfy the Japanese sushi eater. Gibraltar has no need to harvestvtuna perhaps Fred can tell us who and why the quota was. Instigated rather than just enforce a catch and release policy for sports fishing ?
But let us go on and hear what others have to say.
November 2014. The European Union has welcomed the International Commission for the Conservation of Atlantic's Tuna (ICCAT) decision to increase the quota for Eastern and Mediterranean Bluefin tuna by just under 20% a year over the next three years. This moderate increase is fully in line with scientific advice and comes after several years of prudent management following the near collapse of the stock.
The EU Member States actively involved in the Bluefin tuna fishery are Spain, France, Italy, Greece, Portugal, Malta, and Cyprus. The 8 countries share the EU quota, with Spain and France having the largest parts.
The seas of Europe are not being devastated. Are we clear on that?
Now can we leave the Bluefin tuna to rest?
As for what you think Gib’s status should be, these are your own beliefs. Many of us have personal beliefs about things, but we are not obsessed by them, as you seem to be. Tuna, nuclear leaks, tax havens and the rest of it are all an invention in your head or are legal. Get over this obsession with Gib. Besides the repetition, you have nothing new to add.
Jan 21st 2015 | 5:51 am
#2290
Banned
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
Re: Gibraltar
WWF 5 most endangered species in the world . No 5 Bluefin tuna of these the Atlantic tuna is the most endangered. Obviously vested interests in the fishing and suppliers to Japan and the sushi trade will want to paint a different picture. Next we will here from the Chinese medicine industry that there is no risk to the tiger or Rhino. As I reminded Fred this is a Gibraltar thread therefore anything that relates to actions and activities on GiB is fair game and relevant.. I hope you are not suggesting that this thread is just for Fred's daily bulletins from the GiB ministry of information ?
Jan 21st 2015 | 6:14 am
#2291
Thread Starter
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,759
From: Land of no recession
Re: Gibraltar
However I will oblige you once you have satisfactorily address the points below.
Jan 21st 2015 | 7:20 am
#2292
Banned
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 26,724
Re: Gibraltar
2 ) The sports fishing boat operators charge a fee to their customers and if they have got their sums right make a profit. They also get to keep the catch which they can sell on 100% profit.
3) As is done with other bluefin fisheries in the world the prepared fish is deep chilled \ frozen and is airfreighted to Japan or other mar!ets within hours of being landed. I am assuming that GiB has cold stores and daily scheduled flights to hubs like Heathrow with a number of daily flights to markets for tuna.
This is an established global market.
I have answered your questions now please answer mine. Why was a quota for one of the most valuable fish in the world created when in your own words Gibraltar does not have a fishing industry. Where will the catch end up.??
Jan 21st 2015 | 4:52 pm
#2293
Thread Starter
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,759
From: Land of no recession
Re: Gibraltar
Obviously not, I made seven posts two of which were pertinent to this subject
That depends on the number of clients, the allowed catch if any is caught, operational costs etc. which does not guarantee a profit.
Gibraltar does not have a fishery therefore the basic infrastructure is not in place which of course you would know if you took a positive interest in Gibraltar.
So please explain the logistics.
When you have offered realistic answers I will answer your question.
3) As is done with other bluefin fisheries in the world the prepared fish is deep chilled \ frozen and is airfreighted to Japan or other mar!ets within hours of being landed. I am assuming that GiB has cold stores and daily scheduled flights to hubs like Heathrow with a number of daily flights to markets for tuna.
So please explain the logistics.
When you have offered realistic answers I will answer your question.
Jan 21st 2015 | 5:06 pm
#2294
Banned
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 19,367
From: Mallorca
Re: Gibraltar
1) I responded at the time stating that I read and understood your post.
2 ) The sports fishing boat operators charge a fee to their customers and if they have got their sums right make a profit. They also get to keep the catch which they can sell on 100% profit.
3) As is done with other bluefin fisheries in the world the prepared fish is deep chilled \ frozen and is airfreighted to Japan or other mar!ets within hours of being landed. I am assuming that GiB has cold stores and daily scheduled flights to hubs like Heathrow with a number of daily flights to markets for tuna.
This is an established global market.
I have answered your questions now please answer mine. Why was a quota for one of the most valuable fish in the world created when in your own words Gibraltar does not have a fishing industry. Where will the catch end up.??
2 ) The sports fishing boat operators charge a fee to their customers and if they have got their sums right make a profit. They also get to keep the catch which they can sell on 100% profit.
3) As is done with other bluefin fisheries in the world the prepared fish is deep chilled \ frozen and is airfreighted to Japan or other mar!ets within hours of being landed. I am assuming that GiB has cold stores and daily scheduled flights to hubs like Heathrow with a number of daily flights to markets for tuna.
This is an established global market.
I have answered your questions now please answer mine. Why was a quota for one of the most valuable fish in the world created when in your own words Gibraltar does not have a fishing industry. Where will the catch end up.??
So, I reckon the comparatively few tuna the Gib sport fisherman catch would have to go straight to Spain for processing.
So there you go: A secret conspiracy to legally process tuna, legally fished from the med.
Jan 21st 2015 | 6:50 pm
#2295
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,675
Re: Gibraltar
I have never read such complete bollocks as the last two posts. As I stated repeatedly I believe that GiB should remain British but that there is a price for that. rules regarding tax.,business and the envirionment should be those which apply in the UK. If Gibraltar does not want to be part of the UK it should sink or swim. The UK foreign office and Government should treat GiB as it would any other country. Given that Gibraltar rather than taking the high moral ground continues. To behave in the same way as Spain why should we have any sympathy or support them.. La Mancha is right in that I do not believe that the seas of Europe should be devasted to satisfy the Japanese sushi eater. Gibraltar has no need to harvestvtuna perhaps Fred can tell us who and why the quota was. Instigated rather than just enforce a catch and release policy for sports fishing ?
So, in the UK tax is levied on the wealth making economic assets which include manufacturing, services, employment (income), natural resources etc etc. Gibraltar, since the reduction of the British naval presence east of Suez and the work in the Naval dockyard diminished, has had to be more imaginative about its tax-take as it does not have the same range of economic assets as the UK. So it taxes economic activity including (mainly) financial services and whatever service based industries it can attract by having appealing tax levels - including, for example - gambling and has spent some of these taxes implementing some of the best infrastructure to support these services. So why shouldn't they reap the benefits?
