Coronavirus
#5026
Re: Coronavirus
Regardless of all this i am convinced we will not see any significant difference in case counts just because masks have been mandated again, it certainly made no difference here as such.
#5027
Account Closed
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: Coronavirus
So that proves my point, if there is no mandate a lot of people aren't wearing them regardless of any recommendations. Clearly we are not so concerned about others as some people seem to think we should be but rather we do it because its the rules. The original remit was "wear a mask to protect others" yet as a general rule we don't give a damn about others in reality, in fact i always classed mask wearers in 2 categories, one because its the law and two because i don't want to catch your germs. I am pretty sure few wore one because they didn't want to infect some stranger in Costco.
Regardless of all this i am convinced we will not see any significant difference in case counts just because masks have been mandated again, it certainly made no difference here as such.
Regardless of all this i am convinced we will not see any significant difference in case counts just because masks have been mandated again, it certainly made no difference here as such.
#5028
Re: Coronavirus
The vaccine is certainly doing its job but we've always known that variants of the original virus were possible. We know this to be true with one variant that spreads more quickly but isn't more dangerous while another variant doesn't spread so quickly but is more, let's say, problematic.
What happens if the next one is a bit of both? It seems foolhardy to not worry about a virus spreading when there's a strong possibility of further mutation.
The least we can do is continue to wear masks - as uncomfortable as it is - where appropriate - indoors with other people, outdoors in crowded areas. Carry on with everything else by all means.
What happens if the next one is a bit of both? It seems foolhardy to not worry about a virus spreading when there's a strong possibility of further mutation.
The least we can do is continue to wear masks - as uncomfortable as it is - where appropriate - indoors with other people, outdoors in crowded areas. Carry on with everything else by all means.
Mistakes were made. The borders were not shut down soon enough, Canada's ability to produce its own vaccines was prevented by this government's decision to punish big pharma to the extent they left, old people's homes failed to protect their residences and multi-generational residences ensured easy transmission between family members (remember how I was criticized for asking whether the "everyone should wear masks also wore them at home).
You may recall that dbd33 and I had a bit of banter regarding the "waves". Please tell me when the first wave ended, and the second wave started? Are we still going to be debating whether it is appropriate to open up society in 5 years time when we are in the midst of the 50th wave?
I am on the side of the experts that are advocating that the world will have to learn to live with this. The world has learned enough that all should be able to keep themselves safe and, as with most things in life, it will come down to one's personal risk tolerance.
#5029
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2020
Location: Ontario
Posts: 761
Re: Coronavirus
To give that number the correct context, we will have to see how much a reduction in the death rate is for the periods of time in the future. If you care to look at the excess deaths rates in the UK, you will see that, after the peak, they quickly reduced to an amount significantly below the norm. Governments all over the world still allow people to purchase cigarettes and alcohol, which kill far more people than this virus is likely to.
Good point about cigarettes but in a way it does not matter. Cigarettes do not shut down economies, do not bankrupt good businesses and do not disrupt social life so that young people are driven to drugs and suicide. Covid does all of it. For good or bad, the society has shown that its not prepared to let people die because hospitals are unable to cope with the demand. Yes, hospitals did cope but only because of the shut downs.
While we don’t know the future, based on the current trends it looks like vaccines will help us avoid further shut downs and we can continue to reopen safely. Even in the US. If politicians had the backbone to introduce vaccine passports across N America we would be in an even stronger position and businesses are doing their bit.
#5030
Re: Coronavirus
We do know that the life expectancy has dropped in a statistically significant way. There was a good summary by country in the Economist a couple of months back.
Good point about cigarettes but in a way it does not matter. Cigarettes do not shut down economies, do not bankrupt good businesses and do not disrupt social life so that young people are driven to drugs and suicide. Covid does all of it. For good or bad, the society has shown that its not prepared to let people die because hospitals are unable to cope with the demand. Yes, hospitals did cope but only because of the shut downs.
While we don’t know the future, based on the current trends it looks like vaccines will help us avoid further shut downs and we can continue to reopen safely. Even in the US. If politicians had the backbone to introduce vaccine passports across N America we would be in an even stronger position and businesses are doing their bit.
Good point about cigarettes but in a way it does not matter. Cigarettes do not shut down economies, do not bankrupt good businesses and do not disrupt social life so that young people are driven to drugs and suicide. Covid does all of it. For good or bad, the society has shown that its not prepared to let people die because hospitals are unable to cope with the demand. Yes, hospitals did cope but only because of the shut downs.
While we don’t know the future, based on the current trends it looks like vaccines will help us avoid further shut downs and we can continue to reopen safely. Even in the US. If politicians had the backbone to introduce vaccine passports across N America we would be in an even stronger position and businesses are doing their bit.
There are States in the US that have, and have not, locked down, with similar results. I have emergency physicians and nurses as clients here in Calgary. They report to me that capacity has never been an issue, despite what the media portrays. They simply do not understand why the media is reporting as it is.
Like most issues, there is more than one opinion as to how to best deal with this issue. The media appears to trot out the same experts each and every day that have nothing to say but, "...if we don't ... then the numbers will be ...." They never seem to go back to those experts and say, "Hold on a minute, you said that by now there would be ... and that hasn't happened. Why should we believe what you are saying now?" How many people have heard of the Great Barrington Declaration? Why are the media not reporting that other experts believe there is a different way?
I have received two vaccines. So I believe that the vaccines will do more good than harm. We cannot avoid opening society simply to ensure that those that don't want to get the vaccines have more time to do so as, if we do, there will never be an end to this.
The current obsession with vaccine passports is, in my opinion, ludicrous too. If you don't wish to travel on an aeroplane, don't travel on one. If you do, accept that you may pick up an infection and take all steps you wish to take to ensure you don't. The world doesn't require proof of a tuberculosis vaccine to be able to fly? Why not and, if that is acceptable, why shouldn't the same apply to covid too?
#5031
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2020
Location: Ontario
Posts: 761
Re: Coronavirus
They report to me that capacity has never been an issue, despite what the media portrays. They simply do not understand why the media is reporting as it is.
The current obsession with vaccine passports is, in my opinion, ludicrous too. If you don't wish to travel on an aeroplane, don't travel on one. If you do, accept that you may pick up an infection and take all steps you wish to take to ensure you don't. The world doesn't require proof of a tuberculosis vaccine to be able to fly? Why not and, if that is acceptable, why shouldn't the same apply to covid too?
Vaccination isn’t just an issue of your own protection but public health. There is a long history of enforcement. UK introduced vaccination act in the 19th century (if my memory serves me right). The purpose of vaccine passports is to encourage vaccination uptake as a public health measure. It works. Accelerated uptake dramatically in other countries, like France.
This should be done ASAP at the federal level but unfortunately the leadership is lacking a backbone and/or understanding.
Last edited by Mordko; Aug 27th 2021 at 4:12 pm.
#5032
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2013
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 3,874
Re: Coronavirus
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Mistakes were made. The borders were not shut down soon enough, Canada's ability to produce its own vaccines was prevented by this government's decision to punish big pharma to the extent they left, old people's homes failed to protect their residences and multi-generational residences ensured easy transmission between family members (remember how I was criticized for asking whether the "everyone should wear masks also wore them at home).
.............................
I am on the side of the experts that are advocating that the world will have to learn to live with this. The world has learned enough that all should be able to keep themselves safe and, as with most things in life, it will come down to one's personal risk tolerance.
Mistakes were made. The borders were not shut down soon enough, Canada's ability to produce its own vaccines was prevented by this government's decision to punish big pharma to the extent they left, old people's homes failed to protect their residences and multi-generational residences ensured easy transmission between family members (remember how I was criticized for asking whether the "everyone should wear masks also wore them at home).
.............................
I am on the side of the experts that are advocating that the world will have to learn to live with this. The world has learned enough that all should be able to keep themselves safe and, as with most things in life, it will come down to one's personal risk tolerance.
It was not THIS government, it was good old Stephen Harper's Conservative government that begin dismantling basic research as soon as they took office back in 2006. It got worse in his later governments. The excuse of course was balancing the budget, and "other countries were doing it so we had no need to duplicate the research".
They are the ones who cut back grants and aid, shut down research labs including at least one with the highest level of security leaving only the one in Winnipeg, who drove scientists at all levels from post-docs to senior researchers out of the country.
They are the ones who cut money to Parks Canada leaving at one point only ONE park ranger in the Rocky Mountains with the status to determine animal and plant viability, other than handling visitors.
He won't be forgiven for that for many years to come.
THIS government was left without any suitable laboratories under NRC OR private control to take on the job of researching and producing vaccines. They have actually had to build research labs from scratch so that we can begin to produce vaccines under license from Pfizer or Astro-Zeneca or Moderna. That takes time, and one heck of a lot of money.
The country did fortunately have a number of privately-funded labs able to do research, hence the ones in Vancouver working with the manufacturers of Pfizer vaccines, they had the know-how to produce the carrier to get the mRNA into the cells.
Most of that funding of course came from outside the country. Ironic, eh??
I do agree with your last comment ................... we are going to have to learn to live with this, as we have learnt to live with flu or any other of the now common infectious diseases that once killed people.
If that means getting a booster shot at least once a year, as with the flu vaccine, then so be it
If that means living with having to wear masks at least part of the time, then so be it.
#5033
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2013
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 3,874
Re: Coronavirus
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Vaccination isn’t just an issue of your own protection but public health. There is a long history of enforcement. UK introduced vaccination act in the 19th century (if my memory serves me right). The purpose of vaccine passports is to encourage vaccination uptake as a public health measure. It works. Accelerated uptake dramatically in other countries, like France.
This should be done ASAP at the federal level but unfortunately the leadership is lacking a backbone and/or understanding.
Vaccination isn’t just an issue of your own protection but public health. There is a long history of enforcement. UK introduced vaccination act in the 19th century (if my memory serves me right). The purpose of vaccine passports is to encourage vaccination uptake as a public health measure. It works. Accelerated uptake dramatically in other countries, like France.
This should be done ASAP at the federal level but unfortunately the leadership is lacking a backbone and/or understanding.
Don't forget we are a FEDERATION, not a country.
France is a country, the government in Paris has a complete say.
England is a country, Westminster has a complete say for England and for Wales by agreement, but not have complete say in Scotland or northern Ireland.
The Federal government in Canada only governs certain things, such as defense, entry at the country's border, transport, etc
The provinces have much control over what happens in their provinces.
Thus the Feds can order vaccine "passports" for people entering the country and travelling on planes, trains and boats, but cannot mandate for movement within the country by car. Only BC, ONT, etc can mandate within their own borders.
Hence we're going to get a patchwork across the country .................. I might well need a vaccine "passport" to go places in BC, or to board a plane or train as they are controlled by the Federal Transport authority, but not need one to drive into AB if they decide not to have one.
I only wish they did not use the word "passport" as that is what is causing much of the hatred towards them.
Proof of vaccination is what it is, just as I once had to have proof of a smallpox vaccination to enter the US because we were on a 6 month entry, or daughter had to have proof in the form of a doctor's letter because she could NOT have a smallpox vaccination to enter Australia back in the mid-1970s.
#5034
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2020
Location: Ontario
Posts: 761
Re: Coronavirus
^ Does not matter. We need a document with a decent level of protection which works across the country. Covid and Canadians move between provinces quite a bit. The Federal Government can and should impose requirements in Federal corporations and federally regulated businesses. Private businesses will do the rest.
#5035
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2011
Location: Somewhere between Vancouver & St Johns
Posts: 19,851
Re: Coronavirus
Be interesting to see how these vaccine passports will work between Provinces if travelling. My Province is issuing vaccine cards with a QR code however it is tied to the Provincial website so if I am in Ontario will it work? I have an actual paper certificate which is 8.5 x 11 in size with my personal details and vaccine dates. Do I carry it with me if travelling and show it to whoever? I don't carry a smart phone so I guess I would have to carry it providing other Provinces will accept it.
#5036
Re: Coronavirus
I take it you are referring to the study where the lead researcher continued to recommend mask wearing. It seems you have been sharing the same stuff that deniers have been sharing.
The study did not investigate whether masks prevented those infected with Covid-19 from infecting other people.
Experts swiftly pointed out that the study has many limitations, including low compliance (many people did not complete the study, and a high percentage of people who were supposed to wear masks did not) and that it took place in a population where spread of Covid-19 was already low.
Experts swiftly pointed out that the study has many limitations, including low compliance (many people did not complete the study, and a high percentage of people who were supposed to wear masks did not) and that it took place in a population where spread of Covid-19 was already low.
#5037
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2020
Location: Ontario
Posts: 761
Re: Coronavirus
Incorrect.
It was not THIS government, it was good old Stephen Harper's Conservative government that begin dismantling basic research as soon as they took office back in 2006. It got worse in his later governments. The excuse of course was balancing the budget, and "other countries were doing it so we had no need to duplicate the research".
It was not THIS government, it was good old Stephen Harper's Conservative government that begin dismantling basic research as soon as they took office back in 2006. It got worse in his later governments. The excuse of course was balancing the budget, and "other countries were doing it so we had no need to duplicate the research".
#5038
Re: Coronavirus
Incorrect.
It was not THIS government, it was good old Stephen Harper's Conservative government that begin dismantling basic research as soon as they took office back in 2006. It got worse in his later governments. The excuse of course was balancing the budget, and "other countries were doing it so we had no need to duplicate the research".
They are the ones who cut back grants and aid, shut down research labs including at least one with the highest level of security leaving only the one in Winnipeg, who drove scientists at all levels from post-docs to senior researchers out of the country.
They are the ones who cut money to Parks Canada leaving at one point only ONE park ranger in the Rocky Mountains with the status to determine animal and plant viability, other than handling visitors.
He won't be forgiven for that for many years to come.
THIS government was left without any suitable laboratories under NRC OR private control to take on the job of researching and producing vaccines. They have actually had to build research labs from scratch so that we can begin to produce vaccines under license from Pfizer or Astro-Zeneca or Moderna. That takes time, and one heck of a lot of money.
The country did fortunately have a number of privately-funded labs able to do research, hence the ones in Vancouver working with the manufacturers of Pfizer vaccines, they had the know-how to produce the carrier to get the mRNA into the cells.
Most of that funding of course came from outside the country. Ironic, eh??
I do agree with your last comment ................... we are going to have to learn to live with this, as we have learnt to live with flu or any other of the now common infectious diseases that once killed people.
If that means getting a booster shot at least once a year, as with the flu vaccine, then so be it
If that means living with having to wear masks at least part of the time, then so be it.
It was not THIS government, it was good old Stephen Harper's Conservative government that begin dismantling basic research as soon as they took office back in 2006. It got worse in his later governments. The excuse of course was balancing the budget, and "other countries were doing it so we had no need to duplicate the research".
They are the ones who cut back grants and aid, shut down research labs including at least one with the highest level of security leaving only the one in Winnipeg, who drove scientists at all levels from post-docs to senior researchers out of the country.
They are the ones who cut money to Parks Canada leaving at one point only ONE park ranger in the Rocky Mountains with the status to determine animal and plant viability, other than handling visitors.
He won't be forgiven for that for many years to come.
THIS government was left without any suitable laboratories under NRC OR private control to take on the job of researching and producing vaccines. They have actually had to build research labs from scratch so that we can begin to produce vaccines under license from Pfizer or Astro-Zeneca or Moderna. That takes time, and one heck of a lot of money.
The country did fortunately have a number of privately-funded labs able to do research, hence the ones in Vancouver working with the manufacturers of Pfizer vaccines, they had the know-how to produce the carrier to get the mRNA into the cells.
Most of that funding of course came from outside the country. Ironic, eh??
I do agree with your last comment ................... we are going to have to learn to live with this, as we have learnt to live with flu or any other of the now common infectious diseases that once killed people.
If that means getting a booster shot at least once a year, as with the flu vaccine, then so be it
If that means living with having to wear masks at least part of the time, then so be it.
In any event, I suggest you have a read of these:
Vaccine envy: Why can't Canada make COVID-19 doses at home? | CBC News
COVID-19 vaccine maker Providence says it's leaving Canada after calls for more federal support go unanswered | CBC News
#5039
Re: Coronavirus
That's at least twice now you've posted something about masks protecting the wearer rather than wearing them to protect others as per "Multiple studies (that) have found that mask wearing has a big impact on Covid-19"
I take it you are referring to the study where the lead researcher continued to recommend mask wearing. It seems you have been sharing the same stuff that deniers have been sharing.
I take it you are referring to the study where the lead researcher continued to recommend mask wearing. It seems you have been sharing the same stuff that deniers have been sharing.
Unlike some on here, I am happy to consider other people's perspective and do so without political affiliation. If Trudeau ever has an original thought that makes sense, I will applaud him for it, just as I would if O'Toole or Singh did.
Last edited by Almost Canadian; Aug 27th 2021 at 7:57 pm.
#5040
Re: Coronavirus
Unpersuasive. In Ontario we had to fly in medical professionals from the other provinces. That’s not media’s fault. And the numbers kept going up at an accelerating rate until more and more strict lockdowns were introduced. Media was doing its job. They could have covered up what happened in hospitals in Italy but that’s not its role. Field hospitals in the streets of major US cities seemed to suggest that they may have had a wee bit of a problem too.
Vaccination isn’t just an issue of your own protection but public health. There is a long history of enforcement. UK introduced vaccination act in the 19th century (if my memory serves me right). The purpose of vaccine passports is to encourage vaccination uptake as a public health measure. It works. Accelerated uptake dramatically in other countries, like France.
This should be done ASAP at the federal level but unfortunately the leadership is lacking a backbone and/or understanding.
This should be done ASAP at the federal level but unfortunately the leadership is lacking a backbone and/or understanding.