Coronavirus

Old Aug 29th 2021, 6:13 am
  #5056  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Mordko
That’s awful. Can you illustrate this with a real life example of someone actually saying this about people who can’t be vaccinated for medical reasons?
Yes. I have several 'friends' who require documentary evidence of my being vaccinated or they won't meet with me (disregarding that I have no wish to meet them with that attitude!)... I have explained countless times the reasons why I am unable to be vaccinated at this time.. to no avail. Covidiots. I have another friend who has similar health issues to me who has been told she can't be vaccinated at this time, friends have been quite unkind to her, shouting at her that she is choosing to put them at risk and she should be ashamed of herself (I heard them say it during a video call) and refusing to allow her to attend any function they will be at, and refusing an invitation during the summer to her house (which is large with a huge garden and easy to 'socially distance' at. The result of this has been to send her in a spiral of depression, feelings of isolation.

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Old Aug 29th 2021, 7:42 am
  #5057  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Siouxie
Yes. I have several 'friends' who require documentary evidence of my being vaccinated or they won't meet with me (disregarding that I have no wish to meet them with that attitude!)... I have explained countless times the reasons why I am unable to be vaccinated at this time.. to no avail. Covidiots. I have another friend who has similar health issues to me who has been told she can't be vaccinated at this time, friends have been quite unkind to her, shouting at her that she is choosing to put them at risk and she should be ashamed of herself (I heard them say it during a video call) and refusing to allow her to attend any function they will be at, and refusing an invitation during the summer to her house (which is large with a huge garden and easy to 'socially distance' at. The result of this has been to send her in a spiral of depression, feelings of isolation.
In a hypothetical situation of someone not being able to be vaccinated because their immunity is being compromised, it might be reasonable for people who work in an office or use public transport to avoid social contact with them for their sake.

Under all scenarios this seems a tad different from “putting against the wall to be shot”. Surely one can decide who they want to meet and why without being called an idiot? But I take your point about emotions running high and some of the language starting to resemble that of Trump supporters.

Last edited by Mordko; Aug 29th 2021 at 7:48 am.
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Old Aug 29th 2021, 8:21 am
  #5058  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Mordko
In a hypothetical situation of someone not being able to be vaccinated because their immunity is being compromised, it might be reasonable for people who work in an office or use public transport to avoid social contact with them for their sake.

Under all scenarios this seems a tad different from “putting against the wall to be shot”. Surely one can decide who they want to meet and why without being called an idiot? But I take your point about emotions running high and some of the language starting to resemble that of Trump supporters.
Do you walk in my shoes? NO.

It's NOT hyperthetical, I can assure you.. I'm not talking about an office or public transit. I'm talking about people who have been friends for YEARS deciding that anyone not vaccinated is a pariah and must be shunned.. my friend was devastated to be screamed at in this way. These people require everyone to show their vaccine certificate to even be at the same place (not even going there to meet them specifically) - socially distanced and masked or not!

Do you have any clue how this feels? I have literally been told that I should be ashamed of myself.. that it's "people like you who make people like us sick - you don't deserve to be here".

Isolation does our heads in!

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Old Aug 29th 2021, 11:38 am
  #5059  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Siouxie
Do you walk in my shoes? NO.

It's NOT hyperthetical, I can assure you.. I'm not talking about an office or public transit. I'm talking about people who have been friends for YEARS deciding that anyone not vaccinated is a pariah and must be shunned.. my friend was devastated to be screamed at in this way. These people require everyone to show their vaccine certificate to even be at the same place (not even going there to meet them specifically) - socially distanced and masked or not!

Do you have any clue how this feels? I have literally been told that I should be ashamed of myself.. that it's "people like you who make people like us sick - you don't deserve to be here".

Isolation does our heads in!
I don’t walk in your shoes and don’t know your situation - or that of your friends’ friends.

My friend’s dad is dying from Covid. He is vaccinated but old so vaccines don’t work as well. Got it from my friend’s cousin who is an anti-vaxxer. My friend is furious with his cousin. Justifiably so.

People who have elderly parents (as an example) may well be very cautious. Certainly does not justify screaming or calling people idiots.

We’ll get through this. vaccination rates are going up and vaccine passports (when we eventually have them) will push the rates even higher. Will likely need booster shots but normality is coming in the not too distant future.
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Old Aug 29th 2021, 12:16 pm
  #5060  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Mordko
Forgive me for going with the position expressed in a peer reviewed paper published by experts in a reputable journal as opposed to someone on social media who says “it is clear” followed by a series of unsupported claims.

Here is a brief summary written by an expert but in simple terms which you may find helpful: https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/202...D19BDwHUGdMnUQ
Well who would have thought it a brief summary that is very long and what is it telling me? Masks work (in some situations) Masks don't let you expel all that nasty viral stuff. Well that's not really news here and not what i was referring to. We have mask mandates all over yet those mandates alone do little to curb the spread and almost always end up having other restrictions added to bring down numbers. I am talking here about real world situations not ideal situations. In an ideal world we would all wear good quality approved masks correctly all the time and there would be no spread but this isn't the case. We have bandanas, bits of cloth, masks below nose, masks with zero filters and even people with their shirt pulled up and then we have all the areas we don't wear them as in restaurants, pubs, coffee shops while seated in groups.
I look at real world situations like Scotland for example who relaxed lots of restrictions a couple weeks after England but they decided to keep the masks because they wanted to be careful and open up slowly and masks were helping. Fast forward to today and Scotland is seeing large increases in cases and considering what they call "circuit breaker" lockdowns to curb the spread, even their big chief Nicola Sturgeon is currently isolating due to contact with a positive case. So please tell me how keeping the masks helped them?
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Old Aug 29th 2021, 3:02 pm
  #5061  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Mordko
I don’t walk in your shoes and don’t know your situation - or that of your friends’ friends.

My friend’s dad is dying from Covid. He is vaccinated but old so vaccines don’t work as well. Got it from my friend’s cousin who is an anti-vaxxer. My friend is furious with his cousin. Justifiably so.

People who have elderly parents (as an example) may well be very cautious. Certainly does not justify screaming or calling people idiots.

We’ll get through this. vaccination rates are going up and vaccine passports (when we eventually have them) will push the rates even higher. Will likely need booster shots but normality is coming in the not too distant future.
I'm sorry to learn of your friend's father, a horrible situation... and I can understand how furious he must feel - I hope he recovers, despite the prognosis.

Sadly it shows that even being vaccinated doesn't preclude anyone from catching it - nor passing it on.

I'm no spring chicken - I'm the eldest of my friends.. over retirement age - as is my friend. I am more than cautious, as has already been explained - unlike my former friends who have been vaccinated.

Vaccine passports will be of absolutely no use to me or my friend, as we may be unable to be vaccinated according to our medical specialists. We will still find ourselves shunned by those who are small minded and don't understand that we are more at risk from them than they are from us.. If they bring in vaccine passports it will likely mean that neither of us will be able to go anywhere at all.. because we won't have one.



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Old Aug 30th 2021, 4:02 am
  #5062  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

It is my understanding that having both doses of vaccine does not prevent one from getting covid, nor does it prevent one from spreading covid. I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong and I appreciate that it may reduce the chance of getting covid in the first place and it may reduce the likelihood of a vaccinated person passing it on.

If I am not wrong, what are the vaccine passport supposed to demonstrate, other than "I have the vaccine"? Why should those with such a passport be permitted to do things that others aren't?
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Old Aug 30th 2021, 5:27 am
  #5063  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
It is my understanding that having both doses of vaccine does not prevent one from getting covid, nor does it prevent one from spreading covid. I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong and I appreciate that it may reduce the chance of getting covid in the first place and it may reduce the likelihood of a vaccinated person passing it on.

If I am not wrong, what are the vaccine passport supposed to demonstrate, other than "I have the vaccine"? Why should those with such a passport be permitted to do things that others aren't?
Results suggest that outbreaks of the delta variant in unvaccinated populations might lead to a greater burden on health-care services than the alpha variant. I guess the governments are trying their hardest to prevent hospital admissions by preventing the unvaccinated from going to places where it seems to spread the most, i.e.- indoor gatherings etc.

Harsh but fair in my opinion.

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Old Aug 30th 2021, 6:10 am
  #5064  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
It is my understanding that having both doses of vaccine does not prevent one from getting covid, nor does it prevent one from spreading covid. I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong and I appreciate that it may reduce the chance of getting covid in the first place and it may reduce the likelihood of a vaccinated person passing it on.

If I am not wrong, what are the vaccine passport supposed to demonstrate, other than "I have the vaccine"? Why should those with such a passport be permitted to do things that others aren't?
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Old Aug 30th 2021, 6:12 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Danny B
Results suggest that outbreaks of the delta variant in unvaccinated populations might lead to a greater burden on health-care services than the alpha variant. I guess the governments are trying their hardest to prevent hospital admissions by preventing the unvaccinated from going to places where it seems to spread the most, i.e.- indoor gatherings etc.

Harsh but fair in my opinion
.

But in doing so you also preclude people like myself and others who are unable to be vaccinated at this time.,


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Old Aug 30th 2021, 6:20 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
It is my understanding that having both doses of vaccine does not prevent one from getting covid, nor does it prevent one from spreading covid. I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong and I appreciate that it may reduce the chance of getting covid in the first place and it may reduce the likelihood of a vaccinated person passing it on.

If I am not wrong, what are the vaccine passport supposed to demonstrate, other than "I have the vaccine"? Why should those with such a passport be permitted to do things that others aren't?
No vaccine is 100% efficient. The effectiveness is represented in terms of probabilities. The effectiveness of various Covid vaccines in reducing the potential of a vaccinated person to spread the virus is substantial.

That's in addition to the fact that vaccinated people are far less likely to burden the healthcare system during an epidemic - and ultimately slow down the reopening or even force shut-downs and hence cause further loss of lives and wide-spread economic damage .

Vaccine passports are designed to incentivize vaccination which is the way of minimizing impact on public health and wide-spread economic damage. And they work. We have experience from other countries where lots of previously unvaccinated people rushed to get vaccinated after introductions of vaccine passports.

Of course in the context of a business office, vaccination among employees also reduces the risk to a company. It's a real issue - when planning projects at the height of epidemic, businesses had to plan for lots of employees getting sick from an outbreak.

Similarly for schools, public events, etc.

Last edited by Mordko; Aug 30th 2021 at 6:28 am.
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Old Aug 30th 2021, 6:25 am
  #5067  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by printer
Well who would have thought it a brief summary that is very long and what is it telling me? Masks work (in some situations) Masks don't let you expel all that nasty viral stuff. Well that's not really news here and not what i was referring to. We have mask mandates all over yet those mandates alone do little to curb the spread and almost always end up having other restrictions added to bring down numbers. I am talking here about real world situations not ideal situations. In an ideal world we would all wear good quality approved masks correctly all the time and there would be no spread but this isn't the case. We have bandanas, bits of cloth, masks below nose, masks with zero filters and even people with their shirt pulled up and then we have all the areas we don't wear them as in restaurants, pubs, coffee shops while seated in groups.
I look at real world situations like Scotland for example who relaxed lots of restrictions a couple weeks after England but they decided to keep the masks because they wanted to be careful and open up slowly and masks were helping. Fast forward to today and Scotland is seeing large increases in cases and considering what they call "circuit breaker" lockdowns to curb the spread, even their big chief Nicola Sturgeon is currently isolating due to contact with a positive case. So please tell me how keeping the masks helped them?
You were already provided with a quote from a peer reviewed journal from an article written by experts who rigorously reviewed multiple cases. And that quote told you that masks, regardless of quality, work in real world situations. You have a different opinion. And you seem to be very certain. Perhaps you should submit your opinion and the basis for it to a reputable journal. Let us know once its published.

Last edited by Mordko; Aug 30th 2021 at 6:27 am.
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Old Aug 30th 2021, 6:27 am
  #5068  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Siouxie

But in doing so you also preclude people like myself and others who are unable to be vaccinated at this time.,
For the folks who cannot be vaccinated due to medical reasons, I 100% agree with you, it sucks. I'm not sure on numbers, but I bet you that there are more anti-vaxxers than there are people in your situation.
For example, If I was a double vaxxed person who was booked in for surgery at the hospital and it was cancelled because my bed was now taken up by an unvaxxed Karen who believed the vaccine contained a micro chip, I'd be bloody furious.



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Old Aug 30th 2021, 6:34 am
  #5069  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Siouxie

Sadly it shows that even being vaccinated doesn't preclude anyone from catching it - nor passing it on.



.
That's not what it shows. We already know that older populations do not develop protection as a result of vaccination like the younger people do. What it shows is that my friends cousin ended up killing his father by being fearful of vaccination and a conspiracist.
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Old Aug 30th 2021, 6:40 am
  #5070  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

With regards to people who can't get vaccinated, here is how it works in Quebec:

What about people who can't get vaccinated for medical reasons?

Dr. Horacio Arruda, Quebec's director of public health, said it is extremely rare that somebody can't get vaccinated for medical reasons, especially given the type of vaccines being offered. In that rare case, their doctors can fill out a document and the person will be issued a QR code to access non-essential services.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...pply-1.6151912

In other words, its a non-issue.
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