Coronavirus

Old Aug 27th 2021, 8:34 am
  #5041  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

You are in Alberta but you did talk about the US rather than just Alberta. Yes, regions with larger cities and higher population densities tend to be impacted more.

We are talking about vaccination for contagious diseases. For many diseases that have been around for a while we have mandatory vaccination in kids. Thats why there is no need for routine vaccination status checks in adults. You mentioned tuberculosis. It is still mandatory in many countries. And used to be mandatory in others but the risk has been eliminated or reduced so its no longer needed. It was discontinued in Canada in the early 70s.

“Slippery slope” reminds me of Sir Humphrey. I am afraid we have been on this slippery slope for a very long time. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_

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Old Aug 27th 2021, 8:43 am
  #5042  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
And the science that are relying upon by way of rebuttal is....
very clearly in the article linked to.
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Old Aug 27th 2021, 9:10 am
  #5043  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Former Lancastrian
Be interesting to see how these vaccine passports will work between Provinces if travelling. My Province is issuing vaccine cards with a QR code however it is tied to the Provincial website so if I am in Ontario will it work? I have an actual paper certificate which is 8.5 x 11 in size with my personal details and vaccine dates. Do I carry it with me if travelling and show it to whoever? I don't carry a smart phone so I guess I would have to carry it providing other Provinces will accept it.
BC will accept visitors official vaccine record + photo idea, so whatever your provinces official record is should suffice if visiting BC. Foreign visitors need to provide whatever COVID documents they used to enter Canada with.

For BC residents there is the smart phone option, they will release a link and people can download the new vaccine record (they are redoing it as the current one can be faked in about 2 minutes in paint 3D on a PC by anyone) to their phone, those without smart phones will have to call in and presumably wait for it to arrive in the mail.

This only an interim card, as once the feds issue theirs, BC will switch over to the federal vaccine passport.

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Old Aug 27th 2021, 9:25 am
  #5044  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Mordko
You are in Alberta but you did talk about the US rather than just Alberta. Yes, regions with larger cities and higher population densities tend to be impacted more.

We are talking about vaccination of contagious diseases. For many diseases that have been around for a while we have mandatory vaccination in kids. Thats why there is no need for routine vaccination status checks in adults. You mentioned tuberculosis. It is still mandatory in many countries. And used to be mandatory in others but the risk has been eliminated or reduced so its no longer needed. It was discontinued in Canada in the early 70s.

“Slippery slope” reminds me of Sir Humphrey. I am afraid we have been on this slippery slope for a very long time. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_

In the US mandatory vaccines have a very long line of legal precedent in favor of the government, its certainly nothing new like some make it out to be there, everyone acting like its never been done before.

Heck 5-6 years ago California made measles, rubella and other vaccines mandatory, the courts upheld the mandate then, and for California you can go all the back to 1890 and find legal precedent for mandated vaccines to protect public health.

US supreme court also upheld mandates in 1905 and 1922 in regards to small pox vaccine being mandatory in some states or city's due to small pox outbreaks.

So yep in some countries/states the slope started a very long time ago, and certainly isn't anything new or shocking that governments may make contagious disease vaccines mandatory to prevent pandemics or try end end pandemics.







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Old Aug 27th 2021, 9:44 am
  #5045  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Almost Canadian
And the science that are relying upon by way of rebuttal is...

Unlike some on here, I am happy to consider other people's perspective and do so without political affiliation. If Trudeau ever has an original thought that makes sense, I will applaud him for it, just as I would if O'Toole or Singh did.
I agree about the mask science thing. If anyone questions whether masks are really the answer we are met with responses like "just think how bad it could be if we didn't wear them" or studies with videos showing how you cannot blow out candles with a mask on. There was even some story a while back about a barber shop with a positive case yet nobody else got it because they were all masked. So yes if we all wear good quality masks 100% of the time they work but we don't and never will. This whole idea of wearing one when entering a restaurant then removing it while seated for hour or so with mix of friends all unmasked is plain daft and will have no bearing on case numbers, similar thing in a large uncrowded mall or half empty Home Depot. But i can see the logic in a crowded plane or bus where there is no space. I look at our local numbers and see no significant drop in cases since masks were reinstated and of course further restrictions were announced shortly after anyway. So impossible to say that masks did the job.
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Old Aug 27th 2021, 10:04 am
  #5046  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

TBH - I think that people just 'feel safer' wearing a mask. It doesn't really matter if they don't work that well, it's a placebo to make the sheeple feel safe.
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Old Aug 27th 2021, 10:34 am
  #5047  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by printer
I agree about the mask science thing. If anyone questions whether masks are really the answer we are met with responses like "just think how bad it could be if we didn't wear them" or studies with videos showing how you cannot blow out candles with a mask on. There was even some story a while back about a barber shop with a positive case yet nobody else got it because they were all masked. So yes if we all wear good quality masks 100% of the time they work but we don't and never will. This whole idea of wearing one when entering a restaurant then removing it while seated for hour or so with mix of friends all unmasked is plain daft and will have no bearing on case numbers, similar thing in a large uncrowded mall or half empty Home Depot. But i can see the logic in a crowded plane or bus where there is no space. I look at our local numbers and see no significant drop in cases since masks were reinstated and of course further restrictions were announced shortly after anyway. So impossible to say that masks did the job.
If you are genuinely interested in studies without videos and candles then you could visit Google scholar.

Here is an example of one study which collated data from 35 studies: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7835129/

Findings:
Mathematical models indicated an important decrease in mortality when the population mask coverage is near-universal, regardless of mask efficacy.
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Old Aug 27th 2021, 11:02 am
  #5048  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Jsmth321
The concern at the moment is hospitalizations and ICU admissions are increasing not decreasing. Hospitalizations are up 100% from 2 weeks ago, and ICU up 53%.

Upside if your vaccinated you have a lower risk of hospitalization but the fully vaccinated still made up 14.4% of hospitalizations between Aug 9 & Aug 22 most recent data I could find.
You are dead right according to this UK study,

This large national study found a higher hospital admission or emergency care attendance risk for patients with COVID-19 infected with the delta variant compared with the alpha variant. Results suggest that outbreaks of the delta variant in unvaccinated populations might lead to a greater burden on health-care services than the alpha variant.

Lets blame the unvaxxed! just kidding, but it is getting very divisive right now. Kind of reminds me of Trump supporters vs anti-Trumps.
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Old Aug 27th 2021, 4:35 pm
  #5049  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Mordko
If you are genuinely interested in studies without videos and candles then you could visit Google scholar.

Here is an example of one study which collated data from 35 studies: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7835129/

Findings:
So from the quoted bit you highlighted:
Mathematical models indicated an important decrease in mortality when the population mask coverage is near-universal, regardless of mask efficacy.

What we don't have in BC is a mortality problem as is right now. We have had very very few deaths in last few weeks compared to previous times particularly pre vaccine. We do have lots of cases and todays was an all time high for long period. So people are getting sick and they are getting hospitalized but not dying as before. This is due to the vaccine rather than masks because if masks were decreasing deaths we could have saved a lot of money on vaccines.
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Old Aug 27th 2021, 7:36 pm
  #5050  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Good new is 75.8 per cent of BC residents 12 and older are now fully vaccinated.

8,000 something people on Thursday were vaccinated, and bookings for vaccines on Monday were 88% higher than the previous Monday, and Tuesday was 124% high than the week prior.


Between Aug. 11 and 24 82.4% of cases and 86.4% of hospitalizations were people not fully vaccinated.

Cases per 100,000 for Aug 18-24
199.5 not vaccinated
24.6 full vaccinated

The hospitals in the interior sound like a cluster, and staff shortages along with increased patient volume due to COVID is a nightmare of a storm and may lead to even worse staffing shortages because more people may quit.

https://www.citynews1130.com/2021/08...ted-hospitals/








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Old Aug 27th 2021, 10:03 pm
  #5051  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by printer
because if masks were decreasing deaths we could have saved a lot of money on vaccines.
This is a logical fallacy. The latter does not follow from the former. “Decrease” does not mean “eliminate”. Nor do we burn with desire for everyone to wear masks at all times in perpetuity, so vaccination is still a requirement.

Current mortality stats are a function of several public health measures and the timing of Delta spreading in Canada and a particular province. Levels and timing of vaccination are a crucial contributor, yes.

The significance of the reference is that there are sound reasons for public health measures such as masks and that these measures are not designed to fool “sheeple” as some are claiming.
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Old Aug 28th 2021, 3:07 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Mordko
This is a logical fallacy. The latter does not follow from the former. “Decrease” does not mean “eliminate”. Nor do we burn with desire for everyone to wear masks at all times in perpetuity, so vaccination is still a requirement.

Current mortality stats are a function of several public health measures and the timing of Delta spreading in Canada and a particular province. Levels and timing of vaccination are a crucial contributor, yes.

The significance of the reference is that there are sound reasons for public health measures such as masks and that these measures are not designed to fool “sheeple” as some are claiming.
My comment about saving money on vaccines was tongue in cheek of course.
You mention "public health measures" but of all the measures that have been applied over the duration it is clear that restricting numbers, social distance and closures are the major contributing factors in reducing cases and therefore deaths. Masks themselves have not had any direct affect on deaths which is what your highlighted comment from the study claims. We are still seeing high numbers and masks alone are not affecting this. Other more stringent restrictions will of course.
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Old Aug 29th 2021, 12:53 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by printer
My comment about saving money on vaccines was tongue in cheek of course.
You mention "public health measures" but of all the measures that have been applied over the duration it is clear that restricting numbers, social distance and closures are the major contributing factors in reducing cases and therefore deaths. Masks themselves have not had any direct affect on deaths which is what your highlighted comment from the study claims. We are still seeing high numbers and masks alone are not affecting this. Other more stringent restrictions will of course.
Forgive me for going with the position expressed in a peer reviewed paper published by experts in a reputable journal as opposed to someone on social media who says “it is clear” followed by a series of unsupported claims.

Here is a brief summary written by an expert but in simple terms which you may find helpful: https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/202...D19BDwHUGdMnUQ
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Old Aug 29th 2021, 2:50 am
  #5054  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Danny B
You are dead right according to this UK study,

This large national study found a higher hospital admission or emergency care attendance risk for patients with COVID-19 infected with the delta variant compared with the alpha variant. Results suggest that outbreaks of the delta variant in unvaccinated populations might lead to a greater burden on health-care services than the alpha variant.

Lets blame the unvaxxed! just kidding, but it is getting very divisive right now. Kind of reminds me of Trump supporters vs anti-Trumps.
I totally agree.. very divisive..


the have and the have not -- Vaccine, that is. It seems as if there is a large faction that would take anyone who has not been vaccinated outside and put them against a wall to be shot, or in total isolation somewhere, deprived of any medical assistance (no matter what it is for), any social life etc., etc., etc.,

Spare a thought for those of us who for reasons beyond our control (i.e. medical reasons) cannot be vaccinated at this time- not by choice!!

Some are lumping us in with the anti-vaxxers - and wanting us to suffer the same potential fate!
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Old Aug 29th 2021, 4:33 am
  #5055  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Siouxie
I totally agree.. very divisive..


the have and the have not -- Vaccine, that is. It seems as if there is a large faction that would take anyone who has not been vaccinated outside and put them against a wall to be shot, or in total isolation somewhere, deprived of any medical assistance (no matter what it is for), any social life etc., etc., etc.,

Spare a thought for those of us who for reasons beyond our control (i.e. medical reasons) cannot be vaccinated at this time- not by choice!!

Some are lumping us in with the anti-vaxxers - and wanting us to suffer the same potential fate!
That’s awful. Can you illustrate this with a real life example of someone actually saying this about people who can’t be vaccinated for medical reasons?
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