I see them that way......and I left the UK while Thatcher was still in power. I don't think we've had a left wing government here in the US since Roosevelt....so that's obviously not what's influencing my perception.

I was actually in the UK during the riots visiting mater and pater with her-indoors. It was quite horrendous. Pater had just returned from Headingly and was ranting over the riot reports in the morning paper. He took immediate action: the dogs were thrown out into the yard to protect the property, he called the cleaner to tell her she needn't come in if she thought it was too dangerous, and he cancelled his hotel reservation for Edgbaston -- it's bound to spread. No punishment was too much for these rioters.
Strangely enough, mother had been ranting the day before how the 10-year sentence for the local Tory counsellor for buggering little boys had been excessive. Surely the disgrace was enough of a punishment? And he was such a nice man! So polite!
Not much changes in the UK as far as I can see.

What is the point of the article?

Is it to inform us of facts? That an adult youth will remain in cutody, if so it would have been a two-liner.

So what was the point?

The only purpose I can see in the article, is to remind readers that not only are the poor not really poor, they hate their children too. Also it is saying that those who may lose their homes did not deserve them in the first place.

The headline includes 'bans', the photo tag states 'abandonned', however we are not given any information that suggests either word applies, all we are told is that she would not state that her adult child lives with her (when he doesn't) on a document; she refused to lie, this will result in him spending one night in jail. She is protecting the roof over the head of her up to eight other children, so from being a concened, protecting mother she is now a child abandoner.

We are then informed that this house (we are seeing that the story is not about the alleged crime, it is about the mother) lives in a house with a garden strewn with rubbish; use of the word garden is important as it indicates a luxury that this type of person does not deserve; though we see that there is no garden, just a small yard space, we can see something on the ground, but this is London and we see rubbish on the ppavement anyway. We are not told where the rubbish originated or when, blowen in from the street, dropped by garabge colectors 10 minutes ago; we do not know. We are also told that one of the upstairs windows is smashed, but again not when or how or by whom. For all we know it was in the riots, or by a some local racist, we are not told, so we do not know. We are just left with the question of why we have been informed about an apparent unrelated piece of irrelevance.

From the limited information that we are given, there could have been a variety of stories.

- Mother refuses to lie.
- Mother given Sophies Choice over which children to protect.
- Mother makes dificult decision to defend roof over her children.
- Council decisions results in over crowding in jails.
- Council decision results in break up of families.

Or the one that they went with

- Poor are not really poor, and they hate their children.

Again I would ask what is the truth that you see in the article?

The fact is if there was no unemployment at all in the uk and everyone had enough to pay their bills and housing was affordable especially for the youth of today and politicians stopped pontificating and everything was equal then the chances of a riot at the first oppurtunity wouldnt happen .
Id hate to be young in the uk , its still a great country but with housing costs unaffordable and wages rock bottom and jobs if you can get one are subject to stupid 20 hour contracts so the employer doesnt have to pay as much NI ,its hard for a a young couple to pay out 1000 a month with council tax and do it on 6 pound an hour , infact id say it was impossible and raise children too .
We should stop lambasting our youth and look at their parents generation and the generations since the second world war to see where the greed is , see the ones with the decent pension plans and houses worth 400000 ete ect.
The uk does need a social correction somehow , i dont have the answer and sure the shooting of an alleged drug dealer shouldnt spark this kind of reaction but in reality there are only two sets of people making real money in the uk and thats politicians and drug dealers .

Welcome King Kong - What is needed is parents/teachers being able to reprimand children like they did 50 years ago. A good slap on the legs and privileges taken away did not do us any harm, and made us better people We had respect for our elders and would never have thought of damaging peoples property like teenagers do to-day. We were not perfect, but not like the yobs terrorising their neighbours in the poorer parts of the town.


For the snobs, this must be correct because it is from the Guardian and I hope this does happen.


England riots: foreign rioters will be deported

Foreigners who took part in last week's rioting will be deported to "send a tough message to troublemakers," it has emerged.

England rioters: young, poor and unemployed

Guardian data project reveals link between economic hardship and those taking part in last week's riots

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk

Oh buggar.....don't let truth get in the way of a good argument......

Jeez...I've never seen so much rioting in Goa since Ghandi had his sandals stolen

Although i do agree with some of your sentiment noni , it wont help the real issue of a whole generation locked out of getting ahead .
I lived in birmingham back in the day of the early riots , infact the next suburb on from handsworth in aston . Things were bad enough then and living and growing up in a predomanently black environment ,it was a tough existance but a time i wont forget .
Fundamentally though i got out because one i am white and two the economics of the time although bad were in no way as bad as they are now ,for example as a bricklayer in 1985 i was earning 200 a week and my first house was 29990 , simple economics dictates it was affordable . I had a lovely new wife at the time and a littleun and i worked hard blah blah . I had a chance and i done it .
But now i have children who are 22 and 26 in australia , living hand to mouth , dossing down where ever they can because they cant afford independance . This is the same in the uk . Its going to cause huge social problems with a whole generation disenfranchised because even young people with respectable tradesmen jobs can barely afford rent ,especially if they have kiddies .
Discipline is lacking in our schools and the lunatics are running the asylum , but whos to blame ,my generation . Our kids are leaving school either uneducated and cant get work or the ones that put their heads down and study leave school and still cant get a job that can cement them a decent future . No wonder gang violence ,drugs are a welcome relief for some wayward young men and women , the belonging away from a society that expects them to work for jack shit ,criticized and blamed and expected to pay off the debts of previous generations on 6 quid an our and a squat to live in . If i was them id be sticking the finger up too .
All this may sound like a big rant , but my greatest concern at the moment is my two lads who are both young men living in the best place on earth to work[west australia ] , still they cant afford to settle down and have the dream just like i did . They get angry and i dont blame them .

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/au...oor-unemployed

King kong I agree with you 100%, but I blame it all on "human rights"
it comes to something when your grandchildren give you cheek and say "you can't do anything about it". I can assure you I did, and have got respect.
What really makes me mad is the PC crowd who say about council houses, most are paid for by us - but do they look after them, no way, grotty gardens, litter, graffiti, smashed window, boarded up, and no respect for the property we pay for out of our taxes. We give them an opportunity, and the abuse it.
Now I stand back for the PC brigade to have a pop.

Its the extrapolation that I object to. Most people in council housing do look after them, and no one is more a victim of the anti-social behavior than those who live near the anti-social, that is people who live in council houses.

Are you serious?

Noni ,i agree with the PC malarchy and believe me i aint no bleeding heart ,sure discipline has gone but my generation decided that , we cant blame the children .
Inregards to council housing ,yes i agree but it is a generalistionand you are just as likely to have social disfunctional behavoiur in your average housing estate due to the high number of private landlords renting out homes at 600 a month plus council tax , the only ones who can afford that are those on benefits ie young mums with 3 kids .
It doesnt make the young mum bad it makes the system of social security bad , the over inflated prices of homes bad and the employer attitude of paying nothing for a days pay inrelation to true living costs .
My generation enjoyed easy credit ,the land valuers bumped up the price of land artificially , people panicked to get on the property ladder , the banks would go bust if values halved but that is what is needed if our children get to have a chance of a normal life .

My father came from one of the worse council house estates in the UK. His family were so poor they drank from jam jars and his mother made socks from discarded pullovers. There was no social security in those days. He grew up learning you get what you pay for, you're responsible for your own actions and you get back from life what you put in. He didn't riot or loot or steal from people, in fact he was taught to respect himself and others. He worked hard all his life, luckily he went to school albeit rough and ready and he must have had the making of brains cos he made himself a fantastic career, always paid his debts, kept his nose clean and brought up four children in a loving home, far more loving than his own where he was just another mouth to feed. He has earned the right to a great life in Aus, with a beautiful house and swimming pool and the ability to retire in a fantastic country in the autumn of his life. He got nothing as a start to his life. He put everything in and got something out before he dies.

There is absolutely NO excuse for this shite behavior and many people are sick to the back teeth of hearing it. Poor social living? My arse. These people get social security to help them live. Enough to buy cigs and beer and go to the club. Yeh not loads, but more than my father and his generation got.

There is NO excuse for this other than people need to get back to basics and learn you get out of life what you put in. Manners, social responsibility, respect...and the ability to man up to your actions and be punished accordingly if not.

No more excuses. It don't wash any more.