UK RIOTS
#226
Forum Regular


Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 76
From: London

Interesting to see how much discussion this has provoked...It's a complex scenario and not helped by any hasty simplification. If I had more time, I would certainly be posting. And I most certainly would be pointing you in all in the direction of some interesting stuff to read - stuff that you will never find in the Daily Mail, which seems to be extensively referenced here! A shame, given it is inflammatory, often inaccurate, hysterical, misinformed, underresearched, and seems intent on inciting xenophobia and intolerance.
#227
Interesting to see how much discussion this has provoked...It's a complex scenario and not helped by any hasty simplification. If I had more time, I would certainly be posting. And I most certainly would be pointing you in all in the direction of some interesting stuff to read - stuff that you will never find in the Daily Mail, which seems to be extensively referenced here! A shame, given it is inflammatory, often inaccurate, hysterical, misinformed, underresearched, and seems intent on inciting xenophobia and intolerance.
British Newspapers have very clear target audiences:

#228
Interesting to see how much discussion this has provoked...It's a complex scenario and not helped by any hasty simplification. If I had more time, I would certainly be posting. And I most certainly would be pointing you in all in the direction of some interesting stuff to read - stuff that you will never find in the Daily Mail, which seems to be extensively referenced here! A shame, given it is inflammatory, often inaccurate, hysterical, misinformed, underresearched, and seems intent on inciting xenophobia and intolerance.
#229
As one of the comments says below that article.
"This remark has been taken out of context. The Prince I think means that the gang culture is a form of "family" to these yobs or young people most from broken homes. He believes in a national community service scheme for the young to give structure, purpose, skills, a release of energy, and discipline...similar to National Service but not military. Via the Princes Trust he has given £2.5m to those affected by these riots. "
Many on this forum are calling for the exact same thing as Charles is, lower down in that article - community service, structure, learning of skills and discipline, and respect. Surely this beats waiting until we have to lock them all up? We already have the highest incarceration rate of young people in the EU.
"This remark has been taken out of context. The Prince I think means that the gang culture is a form of "family" to these yobs or young people most from broken homes. He believes in a national community service scheme for the young to give structure, purpose, skills, a release of energy, and discipline...similar to National Service but not military. Via the Princes Trust he has given £2.5m to those affected by these riots. "
Many on this forum are calling for the exact same thing as Charles is, lower down in that article - community service, structure, learning of skills and discipline, and respect. Surely this beats waiting until we have to lock them all up? We already have the highest incarceration rate of young people in the EU.
Decipline
#230
Forum Regular



Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 234
From: Lydd Kent











Interesting to see how much discussion this has provoked...It's a complex scenario and not helped by any hasty simplification. If I had more time, I would certainly be posting. And I most certainly would be pointing you in all in the direction of some interesting stuff to read - stuff that you will never find in the Daily Mail, which seems to be extensively referenced here! A shame, given it is inflammatory, often inaccurate, hysterical, misinformed, underresearched, and seems intent on inciting xenophobia and intolerance.
#232
Interesting to see how much discussion this has provoked...It's a complex scenario and not helped by any hasty simplification. If I had more time, I would certainly be posting. And I most certainly would be pointing you in all in the direction of some interesting stuff to read - stuff that you will never find in the Daily Mail, which seems to be extensively referenced here! A shame, given it is inflammatory, often inaccurate, hysterical, misinformed, underresearched, and seems intent on inciting xenophobia and intolerance.
The pictures in the Mail don't lie.
#235










Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,507

Now there is a naive statement if I ever saw one.
Not just selection as Bipat says, but decisions on location, composition, cropping, editing, depth of field choice, choices of juxtaposition, layout, even decisions on exposure can change the meaning and what an image in a publication communicates.
Not to mention photoshopping.
Not just selection as Bipat says, but decisions on location, composition, cropping, editing, depth of field choice, choices of juxtaposition, layout, even decisions on exposure can change the meaning and what an image in a publication communicates.
Not to mention photoshopping.
Last edited by kimilseung; Aug 18th 2011 at 5:58 am.
#236
kimilseung I suggest you put some Urls on so that I can be educated to your standards.
Last edited by noni; Aug 18th 2011 at 6:01 am.
#237
Judges are there to uphold the law according to the constitution of the U.K.
They are not there to sentence according to who screams the loudest, be it the public or the politicians. If they were to do that, we wouldn't have law we would have mob rule.
If you hand out a sentence of 2 years to Person A, because people are up in arms about the issue, but a sentence of only 6 months to Person B who was convicted of exactly the same crime but whose victim had no one yelling and screaming on his behalf, you are saying that the victim of Person B is worth less under the law than the victim of Person A. Equally, you have no guarantee that anyone up before the courts will not simply be released if the judge happens to know him or his family, for example.
This is why we have law, not mob rule, and judges in the UK are appointed. They are not elected and are not there to represent us, like the politicians are. They are there to represent our constitution which in turn is there for all of us.
They are not there to sentence according to who screams the loudest, be it the public or the politicians. If they were to do that, we wouldn't have law we would have mob rule.
If you hand out a sentence of 2 years to Person A, because people are up in arms about the issue, but a sentence of only 6 months to Person B who was convicted of exactly the same crime but whose victim had no one yelling and screaming on his behalf, you are saying that the victim of Person B is worth less under the law than the victim of Person A. Equally, you have no guarantee that anyone up before the courts will not simply be released if the judge happens to know him or his family, for example.
This is why we have law, not mob rule, and judges in the UK are appointed. They are not elected and are not there to represent us, like the politicians are. They are there to represent our constitution which in turn is there for all of us.
And why should the victims views not be taken into account, the person charged with a crime gets a defence council, quite often paid for by our (the general public's) taxes, to represent them.
Unequal sentencing is nothing new, it happens all the time with all sorts of crime because judges are allowed discretion.
As for suggesting that judges would break the rules which bar them from taking a case in which they have any personal relationship with the defendant, that is insulting to our judges.
#238










Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,507

A place to start might be The Glasgow Media Group.
The Guardian points of view skinhead advert is something you may remember that illustrates how an image can mis-communicate.
One notable example is the Retuers Beruit bombing photo, and this only came to light after publication because the photoshopping was so bloody bad. The question to ask is about the good quality ones that remain unknown.
Another is the staged landings on Somali beaches.
Stalins famous removal of denounced party members.
http://www.fourandsix.com/photo-tampering-history/
The big problem is not knowing, when we see a photo, we do not know the oppurtunity cost of that photo. We can not see beyond the frame.
Consider how many talking heads of middle class origin are positioned in front of bookcases and sat at desks, this is not an accident, it is chosen, to suggest that the person is learned and to be trusted. Then ask yourself about photos of working class people that you may see in the Daily Mail for example, in social scrounger stories, and ask what are they juxtapsed with? Do none of them read? Often they will be photographed with tacky wallpaper in the background (or in the garden with a mess in the background), this again is done with consideration, to get middle class snobs to dislike them before they even read the story.
#239










Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,507

“competence in reading visual imagery is an acquired skill similar to the process
of learning language, a social activity defined by the norms of a particular
culture.â€
George Legrady, “Image, Language, and Belief in Synthesis,†Art Journal 116 (1990)
Traditional photographs - the ones our culture has always put so
much trust in - have never been “true†in the first place.
Photographers intervene in every photograph they make, whether
by orchestrating or directly interfering in the scene being imaged;
by selecting, cropping, excluding, and in other ways making
pictorial choices as they take the photograph; by enhancing,
suppressing, and cropping the finished print in the darkroom; and,
finally, by adding captions and other contextual elements to their
image to anchor some potential meanings and discourage others.
Geoffrey Batchen, “Phantasm: Digital Imaging and the Death of Photography,â€
The meaning of a photographic image is built up by an interaction
of such schemas or codes, which vary greatly in their degree of
schematisation. The image is therefore to be seen as a composite
of signs, more to be compared with a complex sentence than a
single word. Its meanings are multiple, concrete, and, most
important, constructed.
John Tagg, The Burden of Representation
on the one hand, a press photograph is an object worked up,
selected, composed, constructed, treated according to various
professional, aesthetic, or ideological norms which are so many
connotation-factors; and, on the other hand, this same photograph
is not only perceived, received, it is read, attached – more or less
consciously by the public which consumes it – to a traditional stock
of signs
Roland Barthes, “The Photographic Message,â€
of learning language, a social activity defined by the norms of a particular
culture.â€
George Legrady, “Image, Language, and Belief in Synthesis,†Art Journal 116 (1990)
Traditional photographs - the ones our culture has always put so
much trust in - have never been “true†in the first place.
Photographers intervene in every photograph they make, whether
by orchestrating or directly interfering in the scene being imaged;
by selecting, cropping, excluding, and in other ways making
pictorial choices as they take the photograph; by enhancing,
suppressing, and cropping the finished print in the darkroom; and,
finally, by adding captions and other contextual elements to their
image to anchor some potential meanings and discourage others.
Geoffrey Batchen, “Phantasm: Digital Imaging and the Death of Photography,â€
The meaning of a photographic image is built up by an interaction
of such schemas or codes, which vary greatly in their degree of
schematisation. The image is therefore to be seen as a composite
of signs, more to be compared with a complex sentence than a
single word. Its meanings are multiple, concrete, and, most
important, constructed.
John Tagg, The Burden of Representation
on the one hand, a press photograph is an object worked up,
selected, composed, constructed, treated according to various
professional, aesthetic, or ideological norms which are so many
connotation-factors; and, on the other hand, this same photograph
is not only perceived, received, it is read, attached – more or less
consciously by the public which consumes it – to a traditional stock
of signs
Roland Barthes, “The Photographic Message,â€
#240










Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,507

Green Helmet Guy at Qana
http://www.slublog.com/archives/2006...assion_of.html
This killing was real, but the execution was moved outside to facilitate journalists
http://www.petapixel.com/2010/07/05/...t-cover-photo/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...oom-photo.html
http://themoderatevoice.com/46605/ph...torial-fakery/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ph-7-7-bombers
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...tilla-1.294780
http://bigjournalism.com/oceren/2010...tions-instead/
I'm done with Google for now.
http://www.slublog.com/archives/2006...assion_of.html
This killing was real, but the execution was moved outside to facilitate journalists
http://www.petapixel.com/2010/07/05/...t-cover-photo/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...oom-photo.html
http://themoderatevoice.com/46605/ph...torial-fakery/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ph-7-7-bombers
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...tilla-1.294780
http://bigjournalism.com/oceren/2010...tions-instead/
I'm done with Google for now.



