Wikiposts

UK RIOTS

Thread Tools
 
Old Aug 18th 2011 | 12:45 am
  #226  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 76
From: London
Shasha is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: UK RIOTS

Interesting to see how much discussion this has provoked...It's a complex scenario and not helped by any hasty simplification. If I had more time, I would certainly be posting. And I most certainly would be pointing you in all in the direction of some interesting stuff to read - stuff that you will never find in the Daily Mail, which seems to be extensively referenced here! A shame, given it is inflammatory, often inaccurate, hysterical, misinformed, underresearched, and seems intent on inciting xenophobia and intolerance.
 
Old Aug 18th 2011 | 12:50 am
  #227  
Lion in Winter's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 79,375
From: East Seaxe
Lion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK RIOTS

Originally Posted by Shasha
Interesting to see how much discussion this has provoked...It's a complex scenario and not helped by any hasty simplification. If I had more time, I would certainly be posting. And I most certainly would be pointing you in all in the direction of some interesting stuff to read - stuff that you will never find in the Daily Mail, which seems to be extensively referenced here! A shame, given it is inflammatory, often inaccurate, hysterical, misinformed, underresearched, and seems intent on inciting xenophobia and intolerance.
The Daily Wail has always been that way.

British Newspapers have very clear target audiences:

 
Old Aug 18th 2011 | 1:08 am
  #228  
kernowpisky's Avatar
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 196
From: Guirim, Mapusa.
kernowpisky is a jewel in the roughkernowpisky is a jewel in the roughkernowpisky is a jewel in the roughkernowpisky is a jewel in the rough
Default Re: UK RIOTS

Originally Posted by Shasha
Interesting to see how much discussion this has provoked...It's a complex scenario and not helped by any hasty simplification. If I had more time, I would certainly be posting. And I most certainly would be pointing you in all in the direction of some interesting stuff to read - stuff that you will never find in the Daily Mail, which seems to be extensively referenced here! A shame, given it is inflammatory, often inaccurate, hysterical, misinformed, underresearched, and seems intent on inciting xenophobia and intolerance.
Mail was always a tory rag, wouldnt expect nothing else.
 
Old Aug 18th 2011 | 1:59 am
  #229  
noni's Avatar
Thread Starter
 
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,227
From: Noni the Indian Goan Beach Mulberry
noni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK RIOTS

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
As one of the comments says below that article.

"This remark has been taken out of context. The Prince I think means that the gang culture is a form of "family" to these yobs or young people most from broken homes. He believes in a national community service scheme for the young to give structure, purpose, skills, a release of energy, and discipline...similar to National Service but not military. Via the Princes Trust he has given £2.5m to those affected by these riots. "

Many on this forum are calling for the exact same thing as Charles is, lower down in that article - community service, structure, learning of skills and discipline, and respect. Surely this beats waiting until we have to lock them all up? We already have the highest incarceration rate of young people in the EU.

Decipline
 
Old Aug 18th 2011 | 4:00 am
  #230  
Forum Regular
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 234
From: Lydd Kent
SteveKingswear is a splendid one to beholdSteveKingswear is a splendid one to beholdSteveKingswear is a splendid one to beholdSteveKingswear is a splendid one to beholdSteveKingswear is a splendid one to beholdSteveKingswear is a splendid one to beholdSteveKingswear is a splendid one to beholdSteveKingswear is a splendid one to beholdSteveKingswear is a splendid one to beholdSteveKingswear is a splendid one to beholdSteveKingswear is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: UK RIOTS

Originally Posted by Shasha
Interesting to see how much discussion this has provoked...It's a complex scenario and not helped by any hasty simplification. If I had more time, I would certainly be posting. And I most certainly would be pointing you in all in the direction of some interesting stuff to read - stuff that you will never find in the Daily Mail, which seems to be extensively referenced here! A shame, given it is inflammatory, often inaccurate, hysterical, misinformed, underresearched, and seems intent on inciting xenophobia and intolerance.
Not a fan of the Daily Mail then Shasha? Are you suggesting that our ever alert and vigilant press, the upholders of everything that is good about Britain might actually be sleazy lieing scum bags? I'm shocked and surprised;Not.
 
Old Aug 18th 2011 | 4:26 am
  #231  
noni's Avatar
Thread Starter
 
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,227
From: Noni the Indian Goan Beach Mulberry
noni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK RIOTS

Originally Posted by kernowpisky
Mail was always a tory rag, wouldnt expect nothing else.
Tory rag! are the others any better.
 
Old Aug 18th 2011 | 4:31 am
  #232  
noni's Avatar
Thread Starter
 
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,227
From: Noni the Indian Goan Beach Mulberry
noni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK RIOTS

Originally Posted by Shasha
Interesting to see how much discussion this has provoked...It's a complex scenario and not helped by any hasty simplification. If I had more time, I would certainly be posting. And I most certainly would be pointing you in all in the direction of some interesting stuff to read - stuff that you will never find in the Daily Mail, which seems to be extensively referenced here! A shame, given it is inflammatory, often inaccurate, hysterical, misinformed, underresearched, and seems intent on inciting xenophobia and intolerance.


The pictures in the Mail don't lie.
 
Old Aug 18th 2011 | 5:02 am
  #233  
Lion in Winter's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 79,375
From: East Seaxe
Lion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond reputeLion in Winter has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK RIOTS

Originally Posted by noni
[/COLOR]

The pictures in the Mail don't lie.
In what way?
 
Old Aug 18th 2011 | 5:09 am
  #234  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 21,295
Bipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond reputeBipat has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK RIOTS

Originally Posted by noni
[/COLOR]

The pictures in the Mail don't lie.
But--- they make a selection of pictures that will help to produce/or enhance the reactions that Shasha describes. As with all newspapers they target a specific audience.
 
Old Aug 18th 2011 | 5:49 am
  #235  
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,507
kimilseung has disabled reputation
Default Re: UK RIOTS

Originally Posted by noni
[/COLOR]

The pictures in the Mail don't lie.
Now there is a naive statement if I ever saw one.

Not just selection as Bipat says, but decisions on location, composition, cropping, editing, depth of field choice, choices of juxtaposition, layout, even decisions on exposure can change the meaning and what an image in a publication communicates.

Not to mention photoshopping.

Last edited by kimilseung; Aug 18th 2011 at 5:58 am.
 
Old Aug 18th 2011 | 5:55 am
  #236  
noni's Avatar
Thread Starter
 
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,227
From: Noni the Indian Goan Beach Mulberry
noni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond reputenoni has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: UK RIOTS

Originally Posted by Bipat
But--- they make a selection of pictures that will help to produce/or enhance the reactions that Shasha describes. As with all newspapers they target a specific audience.
Bipat/Lion That may be true, but you see the same pictures of the same rioters on TV and in all the nationals.
kimilseung I suggest you put some Urls on so that I can be educated to your standards.

Last edited by noni; Aug 18th 2011 at 6:01 am.
 
Old Aug 18th 2011 | 6:30 am
  #237  
k800mer's Avatar
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,199
k800mer is a splendid one to beholdk800mer is a splendid one to beholdk800mer is a splendid one to beholdk800mer is a splendid one to beholdk800mer is a splendid one to beholdk800mer is a splendid one to beholdk800mer is a splendid one to beholdk800mer is a splendid one to beholdk800mer is a splendid one to beholdk800mer is a splendid one to beholdk800mer is a splendid one to behold
Default Re: UK RIOTS

Originally Posted by Lion in Winter
Judges are there to uphold the law according to the constitution of the U.K.

They are not there to sentence according to who screams the loudest, be it the public or the politicians. If they were to do that, we wouldn't have law we would have mob rule.

If you hand out a sentence of 2 years to Person A, because people are up in arms about the issue, but a sentence of only 6 months to Person B who was convicted of exactly the same crime but whose victim had no one yelling and screaming on his behalf, you are saying that the victim of Person B is worth less under the law than the victim of Person A. Equally, you have no guarantee that anyone up before the courts will not simply be released if the judge happens to know him or his family, for example.

This is why we have law, not mob rule, and judges in the UK are appointed. They are not elected and are not there to represent us, like the politicians are. They are there to represent our constitution which in turn is there for all of us.
I never suggested that the judges should hand down sentences that exceed those laid down in the rules but quite often they are too soft on criminals. Public opinion should be taken into account when the rules are written. That does not mean that mob rule would happen in fact it was mob rule (riots) that started this thread.
And why should the victims views not be taken into account, the person charged with a crime gets a defence council, quite often paid for by our (the general public's) taxes, to represent them.
Unequal sentencing is nothing new, it happens all the time with all sorts of crime because judges are allowed discretion.
As for suggesting that judges would break the rules which bar them from taking a case in which they have any personal relationship with the defendant, that is insulting to our judges.
 
Old Aug 18th 2011 | 6:30 am
  #238  
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,507
kimilseung has disabled reputation
Default Re: UK RIOTS

Originally Posted by noni
Bipat/Lion That may be true, but you see the same pictures of the same rioters on TV and in all the nationals.
kimilseung I suggest you put some Urls on so that I can be educated to your standards.
I do not have any to hand but I'll do a quick google,
A place to start might be The Glasgow Media Group.
The Guardian points of view skinhead advert is something you may remember that illustrates how an image can mis-communicate.
One notable example is the Retuers Beruit bombing photo, and this only came to light after publication because the photoshopping was so bloody bad. The question to ask is about the good quality ones that remain unknown.
Another is the staged landings on Somali beaches.
Stalins famous removal of denounced party members.
http://www.fourandsix.com/photo-tampering-history/

The big problem is not knowing, when we see a photo, we do not know the oppurtunity cost of that photo. We can not see beyond the frame.
Consider how many talking heads of middle class origin are positioned in front of bookcases and sat at desks, this is not an accident, it is chosen, to suggest that the person is learned and to be trusted. Then ask yourself about photos of working class people that you may see in the Daily Mail for example, in social scrounger stories, and ask what are they juxtapsed with? Do none of them read? Often they will be photographed with tacky wallpaper in the background (or in the garden with a mess in the background), this again is done with consideration, to get middle class snobs to dislike them before they even read the story.
 
Old Aug 18th 2011 | 7:20 am
  #239  
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,507
kimilseung has disabled reputation
Default Re: UK RIOTS

“competence in reading visual imagery is an acquired skill similar to the process
of learning language, a social activity defined by the norms of a particular
culture.”

George Legrady, “Image, Language, and Belief in Synthesis,” Art Journal 116 (1990)

Traditional photographs - the ones our culture has always put so
much trust in - have never been “true” in the first place.
Photographers intervene in every photograph they make, whether
by orchestrating or directly interfering in the scene being imaged;
by selecting, cropping, excluding, and in other ways making
pictorial choices as they take the photograph; by enhancing,
suppressing, and cropping the finished print in the darkroom; and,
finally, by adding captions and other contextual elements to their
image to anchor some potential meanings and discourage others.

Geoffrey Batchen, “Phantasm: Digital Imaging and the Death of Photography,”

The meaning of a photographic image is built up by an interaction
of such schemas or codes, which vary greatly in their degree of
schematisation. The image is therefore to be seen as a composite
of signs, more to be compared with a complex sentence than a
single word. Its meanings are multiple, concrete, and, most
important, constructed.

John Tagg, The Burden of Representation

on the one hand, a press photograph is an object worked up,
selected, composed, constructed, treated according to various
professional, aesthetic, or ideological norms which are so many
connotation-factors; and, on the other hand, this same photograph
is not only perceived, received, it is read, attached – more or less
consciously by the public which consumes it – to a traditional stock
of signs

Roland Barthes, “The Photographic Message,”
 
Old Aug 18th 2011 | 7:38 am
  #240  
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 19,507
kimilseung has disabled reputation
Default Re: UK RIOTS

Green Helmet Guy at Qana

http://www.slublog.com/archives/2006...assion_of.html

This killing was real, but the execution was moved outside to facilitate journalists

http://www.petapixel.com/2010/07/05/...t-cover-photo/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...oom-photo.html

http://themoderatevoice.com/46605/ph...torial-fakery/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ph-7-7-bombers

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...tilla-1.294780

http://bigjournalism.com/oceren/2010...tions-instead/

I'm done with Google for now.
 


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices

Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.