Why? Debate is good

OK, I agree there are some jobs in shops and pubs you have mentioned
But unemployment is is about 2.5 million

We are talking about a specific group of people and I dont think they have the same possibilities of finding employment in C&A as a shop assistant as a middle class posh girl in Solihull

Mm.

Doesn't seem to apply to his bedfellows the NOW staff, for example.

I think you will find that there has been riots in the past - certainly in both Gremany and France.

Dread - x

I am neither middle class or posh and I do not come from Solihull. I come from the North East, Solihull is in the Midlands. I grew up on a council estate and although my father was in work it was always low paid and with three children to feed and clothe we did not have much. Most of my clothes were second hand (except my knickers!) and we did not have holidays or even a tv until I was in my teens and my Grandmother died. The little that she left paid for a second hand portable tv. I had to leave school after O levels as my parents could not afford to keep supporting me and I obtained my accounting qualification through night classes. Don't get me wrong, I have great admiration for my parents for managing to feed us and bring us up to be productive law abiding adults and I am also quite proud of myself for what I have achieved. I do realise that not all parents are good parents and I feel very sorry for those who have suffered a bad upbringing but I still say we are all responsible for our own lives and if these people need a light at the end of their tunnel it is up to them to create it and not by setting fire to buildings and rioting. We can not do it for them although we may be able to give them a helping hand along the way. Incidently, we moved south for work some years ago.

if this was facebook id just click the "like" button..
Parts of that were not directed towards you but to everyone in general.
People just seem to forget.. I dont mean just having memories of being young
but really truly feeling the feelings you did when you were young & thereby
understanding a bit more..
loves what you said though

well said.sums the reality up of young ones in poor areas

I don't claim to know all the answers...
but when there was fear of the 'big stick' at school
and jail terms were longer and befitting to the crime committed
and the benefits system was not so easy to turn into a 'career'
and people considered or feared the consequences resultant from bad behaviour
and you got a smack from your parents for stepping out of line
And kids were fed on proper food not frozen regurgitated chicken and oven chips..........

This country was a damned better place to live and there was far less crime and disorder !!!

So what exactly has this softly softly approach served to achieve exactly?
And what exactly will a softly softly approach achieve in the future?

Dread - x

And i guess living in a two up two down with 11 kids with no hot water and a toilet out the back shared by 6 houses ,just like my grand parents had . All the time the landed gentry and royalty are looking down on the masses while they indulge in their sexual deviances and people were deported for stealing a loaf of bread becuase they were starving . ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh happy days, i remember the good old days of the stick at school , sure the first time i got it it frightened me to death ,by the time i left school i looked forward to a good beating on a winters day just to warm me up .Shows if you beat someone enough they become immune and remain standing and the problem remains ,the only way youngsters today are going to become less of aproblem is a fair shake financially and not blamed for societys ills when the economy goes tits up .

OK Lion

You seem to infer that some of the recent sentences given out to rioters are disproportionate to the crime....

.....please do share with us what you would deem a proportioante sentence for such conduct

Dread - x

What do you suggest then Fatbrit?
From what I have seen,the softly softly approach, and the trying to understand the causes has definitely not worked.
For many years there have been a succession of public funded enquiries costing billions in public moiney to look at causes and every time changes brought in for those who start the offence. Despite making changes to laws, the police, the NHS, the benefits system, schools, etc etc etc, at the behest of the less well off, it basically has done nothing to improve things.
Doubtless this latest debacle will result in another public enquiry costing millions, with more changes to pacify the rioters.... and what will it achieve exactly?

Dread - x

King kong

You obviously think it is acceptable to respond in this patronising tone and take the pxxs out of my post, but at no time did I mention some of the poorer conditions for large familes in pre war times and the deportations as they happened many generations ago. I am referring to more recent terms in my lifetime.
What I am trying to illustrate is the lack of discipline and the failure of people taking responsibility for theirs and their childrens actions, and the fact that there are few if any consequences for choosing to behave in an anti social and lawless manner.
You may have enjoyed the cane by your own admissions, but I know for a fact that many were deterred from going further in bad behaviour because of its existance, same applies with the fear of consequences from parents.

People have a right to make a point, and do so without you responding in such an offensive and obnoxious fashion, so unless you can be a little more respectful of other people on this forum, like we have all been in response your posts, go back to the TIO where it seems acceptable to behave like a tool when people don't kowtow to your inflated sense of ego.

By all means disagree with someone's view, but please do so without the attitude.

Dread - x

Well said Dread, innit?


.

Dread ............no way i was talking down to you , what i wrote is fact . Thats what people lived like , my grandparents didnt get a toilet inside un till the 1970s . people were deported for pathetic crimes etc etc . You i guess advocate the big stick approach , sure you can do that for a while .I suggest a more even distribution of wealth and education and creating more of the community feel we have lost .
I advocate losing selfishness and stop thinking about what we can gain instead of lose by isolating a portion of the population economically ,something pensioners suffer from too but havent got the fight in them anymore .
I advocate the old one of the proper bobby on the beat and keeping him/her on that beat. Maybe im living in the past i dont know , but i do know militarizing our police and cameras everywhere havent stoped the violence or the rapes or the burglarys .
The government here has created a society that is no longer together where the people hardly know there neighbours , they live in fear of getting to know anyone .All this because we need the added protection from terrorists and badmen traipzing our streets at night .
There is a system in place here as a society that encourages people to kick back , we are laughed at on the continent with our cameras and silly fluro jackets ,like we have lost our identity .What ever happened to the british bulldog spirit , stiff upper lip ,a born fighter against oppression . guess what the british are being oppressed and they dont even know it .
sorry for rant ,but just my opinion

I question the suggestion that the strongly-strongly approach works. Those who incarcerate a larger proportion of their population don't seem to enjoy lower crime rates. In fact, the opposite seems to be the case. Perhaps we should look here?

One idea that springs to mind looking at those who enjoy lower crime rates is that they all seem to have less disparity in incomes. Wouldn't surprise me if this were a major factor.

Not sure that is the answer either. Russia in its communist days where virtually no disparity of wealth existed (or so it was supposed to be) still had one of the highest crime rates in the world, and still, does with the new regime, which kind of dispels your argument.
On the other hand, some of the Arab states who have severe punishments have some of the lowest rates of crime and disorder and there is certainly disparity of wealth in those countries. Having been to several I have seen plenty of poverty and begging.
That said I certainly do not advocate some of the barbaric practices they have by any means ! Gross!

The point I am making is that for decades there has been public enquiry after public enquiry after every incident of disorder where so called causes are examined. This has cost the country absolutely billions in public funds, and has led to changes in laws, added restrictions on the police and other public bodies, additional benefits made available, and the removal of all deterrents. This has worked in the favour of the criminal and the lazy. Billions is spent in legal aid for appeals on home office refusals to grant permanent stay, and to fight appeals and extradiction for convicted terrorists. People are no longer expected to take responsibility for themsleves, and the blame culture is rife.
This very money could have been put to better use creating industry and jobs - thereby reducing wealth disparity. All this has done is make lawyers and peers more wealthy.

There will always be rich and poor, this has been ongoing for centuries. People had so much less in years gone by, but did they riot and loot?

Something has to change because the way things have been done to date does not work.

Dread - x