You saw sheep! arrived late, and used more petrol than you would have used by using the bridge. Stop doing an English moan. You loved the Gower and it's real ale.

That was in the North - Goa is far more dangerous and stop picking on me.

[COLOR="Blue"]Come home to a real fire, buy a cottage in Wales", copyright Not the Nine-o-Clock News.

Now that is racist!

Mother who shopped her own Olympic ambassador daughter after riots weeps as she's locked upRead more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1VJlVcMQI

Don't think she should be jailed, or fined just stop her attending the Olympic Games.


Looter who stole from Argos with her toddler in tow and teen 'who killed with one punch'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1VJmQxYEH

Yes they are worse - because people have been brutally murdered and seriously harmed by rioters.
That said I am of the opinion that all of the other elements you mention above who are on the take by illicit fraudulent means are just as much scumbags as those who have rioted.
Unfortunately we live in a generation where the decent hard working folk get penalised and the lazy and/or dishonest are rewarded !

Dread - x

Correct Bipat !
Goanstay are you just anti police or something?

Dread - x

It isn't what's being said that I take issue with, it's who is saying it. Which is to say people directly involved in the NOW scandal of bribery, corruption and hacking. Specifically, Campbell has been in bed with NOW, and NOW has been hacking and bribing police. It's the failure lead by example I dislike, and this makes his pronouncements hypocritical, which I despise. And if you can get a six month sentence for stealing a case of water, but nothing at all for high-level corruption, what does that say to the rest of society? Grab what you can while the going's good. I am NOT saying that any of this makes the rioters correct or better. Different thing.

Agreed.


It isn't their job to remain in power. It's their job to represent us - in the UK we are governed by consent. It's our job, among other things, to remove them from power at the ballot box if they don't do a good job of representing us. I'm not suggesting ignoring upstanding politicians. I'm suggesting that until the House cleans up its act - no expense fiddling, no corruption, for example - then their ability to be effective leaders of society as an institution is compromised. Again, the message given out, unintentionally, is "grab what you can when you can."


Agreed. Don't need everything all cleaned up. Sometimes, however, when people speak out they reveal things. And some of the things revealed by some people are appalling - I'm not talking about a loss of temper or angry words exchanged in the heat of the moment, but truly appalling fundamental attitudes. We may all have different ideas about what constitute appalling, but I find bigotry appalling and where I find it I am likely to call it as I see it.


Because somewhere along the line we have to make judgements about what is right and what is wrong. We judge the rioters, do we not? Not a matter of opinion for most on this forum. I judge bigots, because I've seen the harm they can do on every level, from personal to international . I don't think it's ever ok. And if we don't speak up, people start to think it's ok and very nasty stuff happens as a result. The Jim Crow laws in the U.S. were one example, that the country and its people are still paying for today. [/Quote]

As a rule I agree. Yet sometimes they just have to be fought - verbally, and on occasion even literally. Racism spreads in a very nasty way. When I was in Guatemala, for example, the government was touring villages promoting sterilization to young indigenous Guatemalan woman (this was just after the major killing of the 80s had calmed down a bit) as reversible birth control. Guatemala has a large indigenous population, and there was clearly a move to reduce it - and many people had no problem with that. Racism is never ok in my book, and I will never agree to differ on it. Sorry.

Not in any way disagreeing that people should take responsibility for themselves and their actions. It's just that that means all of us, or the problems won't be fixed. It's just too easy to blame the rioters and move on, doing nothing really. It's already almost off the news, except for debates over appropriate sentencing.

Worrying, isn't it?

As a rule I agree. Yet sometimes they just have to be fought - verbally, and on occasion even literally. Racism spreads in a very nasty way. When I was in Guatemala, for example, the government was touring villages promoting sterilization to young indigenous Guatemalan woman (this was just after the major killing of the 80s had calmed down a bit) as reversible birth control. Guatemala has a large indigenous population, and there was clearly a move to reduce it - and many people had no problem with that. Racism is never OK in my book, and I will never agree to differ on it.

Not in any way disagreeing that people should take responsibility for themselves and their actions. It's just that that means all of us, or the problems won't be fixed. It's just too easy to blame the rioters and move on, doing nothing really. It's already almost off the news, except for debates over appropriate sentencing.

Worrying, isn't it?[/QUOTE]




Agree with all your post

I intended to agree with all of Lion in Winter's post. Some of his post became deleted in my reply. Apologies.

Some people are saying that the sentencing is a 'knee jerk' reaction to public opinion and aimed at appeasing the 'general public', well why not, we are after all the people who pay their exorbitant salaries. The 'general publics' views on the sentences handed out to criminals have been ignored for too long and what are Judges there for if not to uphold the law as required by the 'general public' rather than as required by a few 'do gooders' who have just about ruined this country by being soft on criminals.

Quite so.......


.

'A cry for help': Prince Charles' extraordinary verdict on gang culture as he meets riot victims


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1VNLKfdii

Is he real!

About time.

Judges are there to uphold the law according to the constitution of the U.K.

They are not there to sentence according to who screams the loudest, be it the public or the politicians. If they were to do that, we wouldn't have law we would have mob rule.

If you hand out a sentence of 2 years to Person A, because people are up in arms about the issue, but a sentence of only 6 months to Person B who was convicted of exactly the same crime but whose victim had no one yelling and screaming on his behalf, you are saying that the victim of Person B is worth less under the law than the victim of Person A. Equally, you have no guarantee that anyone up before the courts will not simply be released if the judge happens to know him or his family, for example.

This is why we have law, not mob rule, and judges in the UK are appointed. They are not elected and are not there to represent us, like the politicians are. They are there to represent our constitution which in turn is there for all of us.

As one of the comments says below that article.

"This remark has been taken out of context. The Prince I think means that the gang culture is a form of "family" to these yobs or young people most from broken homes. He believes in a national community service scheme for the young to give structure, purpose, skills, a release of energy, and discipline...similar to National Service but not military. Via the Princes Trust he has given £2.5m to those affected by these riots. "

Many on this forum are calling for the exact same thing as Charles is, lower down in that article - community service, structure, learning of skills and discipline, and respect. Surely this beats waiting until we have to lock them all up? We already have the highest incarceration rate of young people in the EU.