UK RIOTS
Aug 19th 2011 | 10:33 am
#301
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 21,295
Re: UK RIOTS
Of course the one with the bullet hole in the glass door and where your feet stick to the carpet and you can't see through the smoke haze stays in the memory. The majority are not like this.
Where however councils put several problem families together in the same area; so called 'sink estates' this can create trouble.
Anti-social behaviour also occurs in youngsters from modern private estates, they tend to gang up away from home though.
'Human rights' -- the term is often used loosely by people when they have a grievance, and bears no relation to the actual European Human Rights Convention, or the UK Human Rights Act.
Aug 19th 2011 | 10:42 am
#302
poole ,dorset . love it
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,281
Re: UK RIOTS
My father came from one of the worse council house estates in the UK. His family were so poor they drank from jam jars and his mother made socks from discarded pullovers. There was no social security in those days. He grew up learning you get what you pay for, you're responsible for your own actions and you get back from life what you put in. He didn't riot or loot or steal from people, in fact he was taught to respect himself and others. He worked hard all his life, luckily he went to school albeit rough and ready and he must have had the making of brains cos he made himself a fantastic career, always paid his debts, kept his nose clean and brought up four children in a loving home, far more loving than his own where he was just another mouth to feed. He has earned the right to a great life in Aus, with a beautiful house and swimming pool and the ability to retire in a fantastic country in the autumn of his life. He got nothing as a start to his life. He put everything in and got something out before he dies.
There is absolutely NO excuse for this shite behavior and many people are sick to the back teeth of hearing it. Poor social living? My arse. These people get social security to help them live. Enough to buy cigs and beer and go to the club. Yeh not loads, but more than my father and his generation got.
There is NO excuse for this other than people need to get back to basics and learn you get out of life what you put in. Manners, social responsibility, respect...and the ability to man up to your actions and be punished accordingly if not.
No more excuses. It don't wash any more.
There is absolutely NO excuse for this shite behavior and many people are sick to the back teeth of hearing it. Poor social living? My arse. These people get social security to help them live. Enough to buy cigs and beer and go to the club. Yeh not loads, but more than my father and his generation got.
There is NO excuse for this other than people need to get back to basics and learn you get out of life what you put in. Manners, social responsibility, respect...and the ability to man up to your actions and be punished accordingly if not.
No more excuses. It don't wash any more.
This is the problem , yes your right they do get social security and if the government stopped paying it there would be lots of people homeless , either because they couldnt pay or because the wannabee mum and dad landlords who indirectly are taking benefit money cant afford their investment property anymore .
I had this debate with a friend of mine who is rather fond of criticising the young mums with kids but doesnt mind them in his rentals . I said ''well your on the dole '' he said ''i aint '' i said ''sure you are all yer tenants are ,your part of the system just like them ,except your really making money out the taxpayer '' .
Aug 19th 2011 | 10:58 am
#303
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,227
From: Noni the Indian Goan Beach Mulberry
Re: UK RIOTS
Kimilseung they should be grateful to have their homes subsidised and look after them, And yes, I know because I have worked in their communities. They make me so mad, they take, destroy, don't look after the housing which we subsidise. I don't mind helping those genuinely less fortunate, but when they take the piss and don't look after their home, they don't deserve them. So please don't give me any more of this crap, I have more pressing and personal problems to worry about than those who do not appreciate the help given them. hopefully the rioters will get what they deserve. Send them all to Afganistan and show them real men.
Last edited by noni; Aug 19th 2011 at 4:24 pm.
Aug 19th 2011 | 12:12 pm
#304
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 79,378
From: East Seaxe
Re: UK RIOTS
Most of what we are arguing about here still comes down to the difference in meaning between "excuse" and "cause." Until we are clear that they do not mean the same thing, we are unlikely to make much progress with the discussion.
Those who (like me) say that the riots had causes, are usually not saying that the rioters had valid excuses.
And if we don't sort out the causes, we will get a lot more rioters and crime with no excuses.
Those who (like me) say that the riots had causes, are usually not saying that the rioters had valid excuses.
And if we don't sort out the causes, we will get a lot more rioters and crime with no excuses.
Aug 19th 2011 | 4:29 pm
#305
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,227
From: Noni the Indian Goan Beach Mulberry
Re: UK RIOTS
Most of what we are arguing about here still comes down to the difference in meaning between "excuse" and "cause." Until we are clear that they do not mean the same thing, we are unlikely to make much progress with the discussion.
Those who (like me) say that the riots had causes, are usually not saying that the rioters had valid excuses.
And if we don't sort out the causes, we will get a lot more rioters and crime with no excuses.
Those who (like me) say that the riots had causes, are usually not saying that the rioters had valid excuses.
And if we don't sort out the causes, we will get a lot more rioters and crime with no excuses.
Aug 19th 2011 | 4:47 pm
#306
Septicity
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 23,762
Re: UK RIOTS
And this gets you precisely nowhere. If you steadfastly define any explanation of the rioters behavior as an excuse, you cannot understand the reasons for the rioting and, hence, cannot even start to investigate any strategy for preventing its recurrence.
Aug 19th 2011 | 5:02 pm
#307
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,227
From: Noni the Indian Goan Beach Mulberry
Re: UK RIOTS
we grew up learning you get what you pay for, you're responsible for your own actions and you get back from life what you put in. He didn't riot or loot or steal from people, in fact he was taught to respect himself and others. He worked hard all his life, luckily he went to school albeit rough and ready and he must have had the making of brains cos he made himself a fantastic career, always paid his debts, kept his nose clean and brought up four children in a loving home, far more loving than his own where he was just another mouth to feed. He has earned the right to a great life in Aus, with a beautiful house and swimming pool and the ability to retire in a fantastic country in the autumn of his life. He got nothing as a start to his life. He put everything in and got something out before he dies.
There is absolutely NO excuse for this shite behavior and many people are sick to the back teeth of hearing it. Poor social living? My arse. These people get social security to help them live. Enough to buy cigs and beer and go to the club. Yeh not loads, but more than my father and his generation got.
There is NO excuse for this other than people need to get back to basics and learn you get out of life what you put in. Manners, social responsibility, respect...and the ability to man up to your actions and be punished accordingly if not.
No more excuses. It don't wash any more.[/QUOTE]
There is absolutely NO excuse for this shite behavior and many people are sick to the back teeth of hearing it. Poor social living? My arse. These people get social security to help them live. Enough to buy cigs and beer and go to the club. Yeh not loads, but more than my father and his generation got.
There is NO excuse for this other than people need to get back to basics and learn you get out of life what you put in. Manners, social responsibility, respect...and the ability to man up to your actions and be punished accordingly if not.
No more excuses. It don't wash any more.[/QUOTE]
Aug 19th 2011 | 5:28 pm
#308
poole ,dorset . love it
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,281
Re: UK RIOTS
i agree , but if all the doomsayers are right with the state of uk economy and us economy and potential eurozone meltdown then once perfectly respectable mums and dads start getting kicked out of their homes and people are traipzing the streets and eating the bottom of their shoes like they had to in the good old days of the Depression , then just then we may just see the futility of the greed system that has created a youth that feels its entitled to everything the generations since the second world war feel they are entitled too .
The fact is when a whole section of our society is in such a poor financial position and are the strongest amongst the population and with the least to lose and with the least to fear when challenging the law , there is very little any of us can do .
Sure cut back on police but militarize them so much the youth will challenge them even more , cheap alternative to trying to really sort out what is happening economically and giving everyone a fair shake .
wether people like it or not but if there was such a system where everyone had a job and enough money then these types of riotus behaviour most likely wouldnt happen , sure youll have the diehard bludgers but they could be dealt with .
There is pots and pots of money in the uk and the US , both especially the US has huge social problems developing , im not advocating communism just some kind of eqilibrium or just get used to more riots .
The fact is when a whole section of our society is in such a poor financial position and are the strongest amongst the population and with the least to lose and with the least to fear when challenging the law , there is very little any of us can do .
Sure cut back on police but militarize them so much the youth will challenge them even more , cheap alternative to trying to really sort out what is happening economically and giving everyone a fair shake .
wether people like it or not but if there was such a system where everyone had a job and enough money then these types of riotus behaviour most likely wouldnt happen , sure youll have the diehard bludgers but they could be dealt with .
There is pots and pots of money in the uk and the US , both especially the US has huge social problems developing , im not advocating communism just some kind of eqilibrium or just get used to more riots .
Aug 19th 2011 | 8:30 pm
#309
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,199
Re: UK RIOTS
The riots in my view were caused by sheer greed and people wanting something for nothing. Greed because they wanted to destroy or steal something they do not have but in the main are not prepared to earn and wanting something for nothing because they are so used to living off the rest of us they beleive they should get everything for nothing. Explanations are nothing but excuses by another name.
Aug 19th 2011 | 9:36 pm
#310
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,680
Re: UK RIOTS
Yes; I agree with all your reasons but the truth is that the majority of young people are not violent thugs, and they all have the same influences. They all watch TV. Also I have met many youngsters from 'awful' homes with poor parenting yet they still manage to become useful citizens.
For probably the first time ever I totally agree with you on this.
Which is exactly why it is inexcusable to use such excuses for those who CHOOSE to become violent thugs, drug dealers and persistant criminals !!!
It is about time that people in the UK started to take responsibility for their own actions instead of blaming the world around them.
Dread - x
Aug 19th 2011 | 9:40 pm
#311
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,680
Re: UK RIOTS
I see them that way......and I left the UK while Thatcher was still in power. I don't think we've had a left wing government here in the US since Roosevelt....so that's obviously not what's influencing my perception.
I was actually in the UK during the riots visiting mater and pater with her-indoors. It was quite horrendous. Pater had just returned from Headingly and was ranting over the riot reports in the morning paper. He took immediate action: the dogs were thrown out into the yard to protect the property, he called the cleaner to tell her she needn't come in if she thought it was too dangerous, and he cancelled his hotel reservation for Edgbaston -- it's bound to spread. No punishment was too much for these rioters.
Strangely enough, mother had been ranting the day before how the 10-year sentence for the local Tory counsellor for buggering little boys had been excessive. Surely the disgrace was enough of a punishment? And he was such a nice man! So polite!
Not much changes in the UK as far as I can see.
I was actually in the UK during the riots visiting mater and pater with her-indoors. It was quite horrendous. Pater had just returned from Headingly and was ranting over the riot reports in the morning paper. He took immediate action: the dogs were thrown out into the yard to protect the property, he called the cleaner to tell her she needn't come in if she thought it was too dangerous, and he cancelled his hotel reservation for Edgbaston -- it's bound to spread. No punishment was too much for these rioters.
Strangely enough, mother had been ranting the day before how the 10-year sentence for the local Tory counsellor for buggering little boys had been excessive. Surely the disgrace was enough of a punishment? And he was such a nice man! So polite!
Not much changes in the UK as far as I can see.
Dread - x
Aug 19th 2011 | 9:59 pm
#312
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,680
Re: UK RIOTS
My father came from one of the worse council house estates in the UK. His family were so poor they drank from jam jars and his mother made socks from discarded pullovers. There was no social security in those days. He grew up learning you get what you pay for, you're responsible for your own actions and you get back from life what you put in. He didn't riot or loot or steal from people, in fact he was taught to respect himself and others. He worked hard all his life, luckily he went to school albeit rough and ready and he must have had the making of brains cos he made himself a fantastic career, always paid his debts, kept his nose clean and brought up four children in a loving home, far more loving than his own where he was just another mouth to feed. He has earned the right to a great life in Aus, with a beautiful house and swimming pool and the ability to retire in a fantastic country in the autumn of his life. He got nothing as a start to his life. He put everything in and got something out before he dies.
There is absolutely NO excuse for this shite behavior and many people are sick to the back teeth of hearing it. Poor social living? My arse. These people get social security to help them live. Enough to buy cigs and beer and go to the club. Yeh not loads, but more than my father and his generation got.
There is NO excuse for this other than people need to get back to basics and learn you get out of life what you put in. Manners, social responsibility, respect...and the ability to man up to your actions and be punished accordingly if not.
No more excuses. It don't wash any more.
There is absolutely NO excuse for this shite behavior and many people are sick to the back teeth of hearing it. Poor social living? My arse. These people get social security to help them live. Enough to buy cigs and beer and go to the club. Yeh not loads, but more than my father and his generation got.
There is NO excuse for this other than people need to get back to basics and learn you get out of life what you put in. Manners, social responsibility, respect...and the ability to man up to your actions and be punished accordingly if not.
No more excuses. It don't wash any more.
And we forget that a couple of generations ago they were living through the war and had to live hand to mouth on rations.
I don't see how excuses can be made about poverty etc. I bet every one of those who chose to take part in these riots has access to or owns a car , has satellite TV, plasma screen, Nintendo Wii, Playstation, Xbox, computers, Blu ray DVD, goes to the pub, wears designer trainers and clothing, a collection of their chosen teams football shirts, goes out to pubs and clubs etc etc etc, - hardly what I would describe as 'poverty' !!!
Dread - x
Aug 19th 2011 | 10:04 pm
#313
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,680
Re: UK RIOTS
The 'nanny state' needs to be overhauled.
Dread - x
Aug 19th 2011 | 10:11 pm
#314
no stressin no fussin....
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,616
From: Fantasy Island....
Re: UK RIOTS
ABSOLUTELY 100% with you on this one Sonnymewalter.
And we forget that a couple of generations ago they were living through the war and had to live hand to mouth on rations.
I don't see how excuses can be made about poverty etc. I bet every one of those who chose to take part in these riots has access to or owns a car , has satellite TV, plasma screen, Nintendo Wii, Playstation, Xbox, computers, Blu ray DVD, goes to the pub, wears designer trainers and clothing, a collection of their chosen teams football shirts, goes out to pubs and clubs etc etc etc, - hardly what I would describe as 'poverty' !!!
Dread - x
And we forget that a couple of generations ago they were living through the war and had to live hand to mouth on rations.
I don't see how excuses can be made about poverty etc. I bet every one of those who chose to take part in these riots has access to or owns a car , has satellite TV, plasma screen, Nintendo Wii, Playstation, Xbox, computers, Blu ray DVD, goes to the pub, wears designer trainers and clothing, a collection of their chosen teams football shirts, goes out to pubs and clubs etc etc etc, - hardly what I would describe as 'poverty' !!!
Dread - x
And the doo gooders still talk about cause and effect but come up with no reasons for the cause other than these people come from poor disadvantaged backgrounds
My arse. In my early days I used to envy my work mates who could afford holidays aboard every year and go to the club every weekend and short holidays to France on the ciggie and drinks runs...whilst I had a mortgage to pay, no money and lived off cheap pies and mash until I could afford real meat. These work mates lived the life of riley and funny enough lived on council estates with subsidized housing. Every Xmas their kids had the best designer gear on with the most expensive toys whilst my kids had cheap toys bought all year in the sales.
Don't give me that shite about cause and effect and disadvantaged poor. Never heard as much claptrap by excuse makers. People need to man up and get a grip.
Cause the crime pay the time. Simple.
