OrangeMango

I find it terrifying as well.

And yes, returning citizens after life abroad and immigrants can't seriously be classified as "non-essential travel". It would be essential travel in my opinion, as it's neither a holiday or any other leisure trip. Starting a new life as an immigrant in a new country, or a returning Canadian, who is returning because a job is finished, or a visa in a foreign country is about to expire is hardly non-essential. Essential travel would also include unavoidable business trips, or other trips, like visiting doctors or medical treatment overseas on various critical matters which may not be done in Canada for whatever reason. ( OHIP is not always known as the best choice.... )

And also, if there is a legal background for this, there has to be a bill, and then royal ascent, at least under normal circumstances. Otherwise there is no legal basis for this. And even if you're in a government mandated quarantine accommodation, they just can't "take you somewhere". You would have to know the address and you would have to be able to communicate this address to your relatives, friends or loved ones.

To me the only real practical solution would be the one, which is being practiced in Alberta. I would make that process obligatory for all the other Canadian airports where they accept arrivals from overseas.

Jerseygirl

I know you have strong views about restrictions in the UK, they have been worse here and it looks like being the same for many months ahead.

DigitalGhost

Oh the restrictions aren't the problem. I would need to deal with those in the UK anyway. It's the uncertainty of it all that scares me atm. I accepted a job and was due to move to Toronto and start it towards the end of February but today's announcements have cast a lot of doubt on that. It's kind of feeling like it just wasn't meant to happen and I should just take a hint really.

OrangeMango

The difference between Canada and the UK is the UK only forces somebody to stay in a hotel and expect to pay for that, if one arrives from certain counties.
In Canada that new regulation seems to be for all countries.
At least that's how I understand it.

DigitalGhost

Almost. In the UK if you are on the hotel quarantine list then you're stuck there for 10 days which may sound harsh but at least you know where you stand.

This Canadian system is kind of cruel because it offers a glimmer of hope that some people may find taken away from them through no fault of their own. The terms "government installation" and "government facility" also scare the living hell out of me.

Jerseygirl

That is because they are trying to stop everyone from entering Canada...almost total lockdown. They should have done this months ago IMO. Every day people were flying into Pearson, infected with Covid.

OrangeMango

I don't think there is a specific list for specific individuals. There is only a list of countries where you're entering from and this seems to concern various countries with specific virus mutations, such as South Africa or Brazil amongst others.

I honestly don't think that the current plans, and they are "announced plans", they have in Canada are legally tight. There is also no clear understanding what is "essential" and "non-essential" travel. ( I take it we can all assume that pleasure trips will be seen as non essential, but that's understood and expected ) The term "government installation" and "government facility" sounds like prison or barbed wire to me and even worse, if they don't name a location where and how you can receive mail. Even prisoners can receive mail.

If you do have a valid job offer in Canada, why don't you get the HR department of your new employer to write some kind of reference letter for the purpose of the trip, stating that the trip is deemed a necessary business trip to commence employment. It might not help upon arrival, but maybe it also might........ It would certainly put your intentions of travel in a better light.

DigitalGhost

So in your honest opinion, should I cancel my plans? It does seem like that's what the government might want me to do.

Siouxie

Should this come into effect soon, it will detail exactly what the requirements will be - not sure why you call it 'cruel' - when it does come into effect everyone will be required to stay in a hotel for 3 days on arrival AND have a plan / arrangements in place for the following 11 days (total of 14 days self isolation)... so the only difference will be going to a hotel first.. provided you don't have one of the new variations.. If you were unfortunate enough to have one then I presume you would be placed in a secure facility - much like the cruise passengers were last year. This is where they stayed after flying into RAF Trenton - it doesn't look as bad as you might think. https://navcentre.ca/
(Those that became seriously ill were transferred to hospital https://eohu.ca/files/resources/64-0...pdf?c96389542f )

No point in worrying about something that hasn't been put into place yet.
My concern is for those people who don't have the funds to support staying in a hotel for 3 days - perhaps with a family - costing thousands of dollars at a time when jobs are few and far between and finances are already tight.

You have had this planned for a long time and if you don't return soon, you might not meet the residency requirements to retain your PR status - you don't want that to happen.

You have your PRTD already, you have a job to come to... personally, I'd bring forward your plans and fly over asap before these new regulations come into force. Arrange for any shipment to be held in storage at one end or the other, making arrangements for delivery once you have completed your 14 days.

DigitalGhost

Thank you. I was already looking at the temporary storage option anyway in case I failed the pre-flight test between my things being collected and my scheduled flight. I've given myself the weekend to make a decision on this as I would need to move out of my current flat in just over 2 weeks either way and I have packing and things to prepare this weekend.

I think the earliest I could realistically travel would be the 9th or 10th but I really don't know if that will make much difference because their timeline on implementing this is so intentionally vague.

darkneal

i've just come to accept this new measure, i think they are a good idea to essentially stop anyone travelling on a whim, its just a shame its in my time line for travel. The earliest i can leave is the 1st march so i imagine by then that will probably be the first week the new rules will be in full effect...personally, ive had so many things happen that have prevented me from travelling in my life since the original plan of last september that this new curve ball doesn't surprise me at all. If I wait a bit longer and cancel again im pretty sure things will be even harder to travel down the linel, there will be another curve ball.

only thing im worried about is the conditions of the hotel for those 3 days, and what happens with meals. I'm Gluten Free and generally just have a fussy belly so can't just eat any trash they throw at me!

DigitalGhost

I think the only ways in which they could make it harder than this would be to enforce a full 2 week hotel quarantine on everyone, (although that could possibly work out easier for some people), introduce a travel exemption system similar to Australia or require pre-flight testing within a few hours before travel like Japan and a couple of European countries do atm.

I wouldn't worry too much about your dietary requirements. Canada is pretty much the most woke country on earth and a large number of people doing this will be vegan or need a kosher or halal menu. Your gluten intolerance is unlikely to be too much of a problem.

Jerseygirl

It is not my place to tell you whether you should move to Canada or not. In previous posts you have been very vocal about the restrictions the UK government have put into place. There seems to have been more restrictions in the GTA than in the UK. These have been in place since end of November and there is talk that these will last for many more months to come. Goodness knows when the vaccine will be available to young people such as yourself. The rate we are going it will be some time next year.

The government want to stop people from departing Canada, they also want to stop people coming into the country. As I have already stated, IMO this should have happened months ago. Every day infected people are entering and now we have the more serious, hybrid versions of Covid.

DigitalGhost

I understand. Thank you for replying honestly anyway. As you rightly say, it isn't your place but I'm just interested in the opinion of others tbh.

Former Lancastrian

My 2 cents. I have no problem with Canadian citizens or Permanent residents wanting to return to Canada if they can and will adhere by the quarantine rules being put into place. I highly doubt CBSA will be writing up a PR for not meeting their residency obligation where it can be shown that COVID 19 was a reason for them being unable to return and that they have returned at the earliest opportunity. Of course getting a flight is now going to be a challenge.