Growing financial crisis in Europe???
Feb 20th 2010, 12:30 pm
#76
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 547
Re: Growing financial crisis in Europe???
Susan anyone!
Feb 20th 2010, 12:45 pm
#77
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 217
Re: Growing financial crisis in Europe???
The difference then was ownership and accountability.
Try suggesting conscription in the UK now. Go to the unemployment office and tell them they have to go to defend the Falkland Isles. See what happens.
Some chav in a Jamaican patois speaking gangsta rap will tell you that you cant do that, he “got rights man”.
Try telling everyone they are going to be rationed at basic sustenance levels. (I still have my old ration card, and I was born in late 1953!!!!) Half would be rioting and the other half would be returning to some former colony saying “not my problem man, I’m not part of this”.
Try to keep a country running when the population are getting 2-3 hours sleep a night in a wet cold Anderson shelter. Then having to work 12 hour shifts for stuff all money in a munitions factory. Oh yes, after the shift finishes they are on fire watch duties on the roof. And when they get home they have to dig Mrs Jones body out of what was her house before it was hit.
Unions would shut the factory, OH&S would stop you for digging out Mrs Jones, and the International Court of some crap or other would stop you from sleeping in a wet cold shelter.
Do you think the UK is still like this? Positive thinking or not.....
Try suggesting conscription in the UK now. Go to the unemployment office and tell them they have to go to defend the Falkland Isles. See what happens.
Some chav in a Jamaican patois speaking gangsta rap will tell you that you cant do that, he “got rights man”.
Try telling everyone they are going to be rationed at basic sustenance levels. (I still have my old ration card, and I was born in late 1953!!!!) Half would be rioting and the other half would be returning to some former colony saying “not my problem man, I’m not part of this”.
Try to keep a country running when the population are getting 2-3 hours sleep a night in a wet cold Anderson shelter. Then having to work 12 hour shifts for stuff all money in a munitions factory. Oh yes, after the shift finishes they are on fire watch duties on the roof. And when they get home they have to dig Mrs Jones body out of what was her house before it was hit.
Unions would shut the factory, OH&S would stop you for digging out Mrs Jones, and the International Court of some crap or other would stop you from sleeping in a wet cold shelter.
Do you think the UK is still like this? Positive thinking or not.....
Perhaps deliberately, I have no way of knowing.
That whole post is largely irrelevant. Sorry, but it is.
I didn't say that there is still a 1940's wartime attitude in Britain, nor did I say that there ought to be. I doubt there is a 1940's wartime attitude ANYWHERE in the world. Likewise try getting most Aussies to conscript and fight in another Vietnam or Gallipoli and I am sure that you will not get many takers.
My point was that the UK has been faced with serious adversity in its history. A recent example of that is the Second World War.
My point was SOLELY that had people had the attitude that certain BE posters seem to favour back then in 1939 - an attitude of ''that's it! The UK is doomed! Let's all abandon ship!'' - then the war would have been lost before it had even begun.
There is, though you are obviously struggling to grasp this, the exact same predicament now. The UK has got problems - yes. But the ONLY way of going forward IF you care about the country (which I seriously doubt listening to a lot of people go on on BE) is to have a positive ''we shall overcome'' attitude, not an attitude of ''surrender''.
Do you still not understand this?
Feb 20th 2010, 1:21 pm
#78
Not allowed opinions.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,565
Re: Growing financial crisis in Europe???
You are quite good at confusing what is actually being said.
Perhaps deliberately, I have no way of knowing.
That whole post is largely irrelevant. Sorry, but it is.
I didn't say that there is still a 1940's wartime attitude in Britain, nor did I say that there ought to be. I doubt there is a 1940's wartime attitude ANYWHERE in the world. Likewise try getting most Aussies to conscript and fight in another Vietnam or Gallipoli and I am sure that you will not get many takers.
My point was that the UK has been faced with serious adversity in its history. A recent example of that is the Second World War.
My point was SOLELY that had people had the attitude that certain BE posters seem to favour back then in 1939 - an attitude of ''that's it! The UK is doomed! Let's all abandon ship!'' - then the war would have been lost before it had even begun.
There is, though you are obviously struggling to grasp this, the exact same predicament now. The UK has got problems - yes. But the ONLY way of going forward IF you care about the country (which I seriously doubt listening to a lot of people go on on BE) is to have a positive ''we shall overcome'' attitude, not an attitude of ''surrender''.
Do you still not understand this?
Perhaps deliberately, I have no way of knowing.
That whole post is largely irrelevant. Sorry, but it is.
I didn't say that there is still a 1940's wartime attitude in Britain, nor did I say that there ought to be. I doubt there is a 1940's wartime attitude ANYWHERE in the world. Likewise try getting most Aussies to conscript and fight in another Vietnam or Gallipoli and I am sure that you will not get many takers.
My point was that the UK has been faced with serious adversity in its history. A recent example of that is the Second World War.
My point was SOLELY that had people had the attitude that certain BE posters seem to favour back then in 1939 - an attitude of ''that's it! The UK is doomed! Let's all abandon ship!'' - then the war would have been lost before it had even begun.
There is, though you are obviously struggling to grasp this, the exact same predicament now. The UK has got problems - yes. But the ONLY way of going forward IF you care about the country (which I seriously doubt listening to a lot of people go on on BE) is to have a positive ''we shall overcome'' attitude, not an attitude of ''surrender''.
Do you still not understand this?
So lets calm down a little shall we? No point in getting the thread locked or getting banned.
Secondly, you mentioned the war mate, not me. I suggest you don’t pick examples that are so full of holes they won’t sink in a paddling pool. I take it from your post that even with positive thinking the UK would lose WW2 if it was fought in 2010. Would you agree?
Thirdly, you seem to have some obsession about BE posters and the UK. Get over it mate. Everyone has an opinion. Some opinions differ to ours. Its part of life.
Fourthly, if you really want to support your point, then give us some logic and ideas about how the UK is going to move forward. Do you think the Falklands Oil is going to help? Do you think the European crisis is going to affect Britain, and how?
Feb 20th 2010, 1:27 pm
#79
Banned
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 217
Re: Growing financial crisis in Europe???
Firstly mate, you verge on being abusive. Trust me, I can push my point and attack people as well as anyone here. I am holding off because I am under warning from the Mods for pushing my point too forcefully, and because you are a new poster.
So lets calm down a little shall we? No point in getting the thread locked or getting banned.
Secondly, you mentioned the war mate, not me. I suggest you don’t pick examples that are so full of holes they won’t sink in a paddling pool. I take it from your post that even with positive thinking the UK would lose WW2 if it was fought in 2010. Would you agree?
Thirdly, you seem to have some obsession about BE posters and the UK. Get over it mate. Everyone has an opinion. Some opinions differ to ours. Its part of life.
Fourthly, if you really want to support your point, then give us some logic and ideas about how the UK is going to move forward. Do you think the Falklands Oil is going to help? Do you think the European crisis is going to affect Britain, and how?
So lets calm down a little shall we? No point in getting the thread locked or getting banned.
Secondly, you mentioned the war mate, not me. I suggest you don’t pick examples that are so full of holes they won’t sink in a paddling pool. I take it from your post that even with positive thinking the UK would lose WW2 if it was fought in 2010. Would you agree?
Thirdly, you seem to have some obsession about BE posters and the UK. Get over it mate. Everyone has an opinion. Some opinions differ to ours. Its part of life.
Fourthly, if you really want to support your point, then give us some logic and ideas about how the UK is going to move forward. Do you think the Falklands Oil is going to help? Do you think the European crisis is going to affect Britain, and how?
Some people on BE, including you it would appear, seem to have the view that a positive attitude is of no use or relevance.
I maintain that that is false and incorrect.
I have never stated that a positive attitude is sufficient on its own.
I was making the point that the UK has been faced with many problems in its time, just as now.
Throwing your hands up as some people on BE are openly doing and saying ''there's nothing that can be done - the country is doomed'' is going to achieve nothing.
I was trying to get you to realise that HAD people done that in 1939 we most certainly would have lost.
I was not arguing whether or not we would still win the war today because a) that's irrelevant and b) unknowable.
A positive attitude on its own is NEVER enough in life. But with the negative approach of ''the UK has no natural resources - it's doomed'' no one will get anywhere.
Feb 20th 2010, 2:39 pm
#83
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Growing financial crisis in Europe???
47 people have voted so far ? That's not a bad turnout for an economy poll....
Never knew so many people were so keen... Where is the link ?
That is par for the course on any subject, from all sides of all fences.
Feb 20th 2010, 3:17 pm
#84
Not allowed opinions.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,565
Re: Growing financial crisis in Europe???
My point was purely about attitudes. That is all I have sought to put forward.
Some people on BE, including you it would appear, seem to have the view that a positive attitude is of no use or relevance.
I maintain that that is false and incorrect.
I have never stated that a positive attitude is sufficient on its own.
I was making the point that the UK has been faced with many problems in its time, just as now.
Throwing your hands up as some people on BE are openly doing and saying ''there's nothing that can be done - the country is doomed'' is going to achieve nothing.
I was trying to get you to realise that HAD people done that in 1939 we most certainly would have lost.
I was not arguing whether or not we would still win the war today because a) that's irrelevant and b) unknowable.
A positive attitude on its own is NEVER enough in life. But with the negative approach of ''the UK has no natural resources - it's doomed'' no one will get anywhere.
Some people on BE, including you it would appear, seem to have the view that a positive attitude is of no use or relevance.
I maintain that that is false and incorrect.
I have never stated that a positive attitude is sufficient on its own.
I was making the point that the UK has been faced with many problems in its time, just as now.
Throwing your hands up as some people on BE are openly doing and saying ''there's nothing that can be done - the country is doomed'' is going to achieve nothing.
I was trying to get you to realise that HAD people done that in 1939 we most certainly would have lost.
I was not arguing whether or not we would still win the war today because a) that's irrelevant and b) unknowable.
A positive attitude on its own is NEVER enough in life. But with the negative approach of ''the UK has no natural resources - it's doomed'' no one will get anywhere.
What I can say is this: History is written by the victors, and is written in a positive frame. The situation in the 1930s was not quite the way it is portrayed in modern media. The country (UK) was diametrically split between fascists and socialists, both of whom were keen to push their barrow at the expense of the UK.
We don’t hear much about the fascists or the socialist agendas during WW2 these days. It is portrayed as an entire nation uniting behind Churchill.
You might also want to look at the people who moved to the USA, Singapore and “Happy Valley” to see that not everyone rallied around the flag in the hour of need. Or maybe look at some of the War Profiteers, who made a fortune out of the war.
Not arguing with you, just pointing out that history is written by the victors, and is written in a positive frame.
Feb 20th 2010, 3:45 pm
#85
Banned
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 217
Re: Growing financial crisis in Europe???
Its an interesting point Creepy, although not really the subject of this thread.
What I can say is this: History is written by the victors, and is written in a positive frame. The situation in the 1930s was not quite the way it is portrayed in modern media. The country (UK) was diametrically split between fascists and socialists, both of whom were keen to push their barrow at the expense of the UK.
We don’t hear much about the fascists or the socialist agendas during WW2 these days. It is portrayed as an entire nation uniting behind Churchill.
You might also want to look at the people who moved to the USA, Singapore and “Happy Valley” to see that not everyone rallied around the flag in the hour of need. Or maybe look at some of the War Profiteers, who made a fortune out of the war.
Not arguing with you, just pointing out that history is written by the victors, and is written in a positive frame.
What I can say is this: History is written by the victors, and is written in a positive frame. The situation in the 1930s was not quite the way it is portrayed in modern media. The country (UK) was diametrically split between fascists and socialists, both of whom were keen to push their barrow at the expense of the UK.
We don’t hear much about the fascists or the socialist agendas during WW2 these days. It is portrayed as an entire nation uniting behind Churchill.
You might also want to look at the people who moved to the USA, Singapore and “Happy Valley” to see that not everyone rallied around the flag in the hour of need. Or maybe look at some of the War Profiteers, who made a fortune out of the war.
Not arguing with you, just pointing out that history is written by the victors, and is written in a positive frame.
Feb 20th 2010, 3:48 pm
#86
Banned
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 217
Re: Growing financial crisis in Europe???
Its an interesting point Creepy, although not really the subject of this thread.
What I can say is this: History is written by the victors, and is written in a positive frame. The situation in the 1930s was not quite the way it is portrayed in modern media. The country (UK) was diametrically split between fascists and socialists, both of whom were keen to push their barrow at the expense of the UK.
We don’t hear much about the fascists or the socialist agendas during WW2 these days. It is portrayed as an entire nation uniting behind Churchill.
You might also want to look at the people who moved to the USA, Singapore and “Happy Valley” to see that not everyone rallied around the flag in the hour of need. Or maybe look at some of the War Profiteers, who made a fortune out of the war.
Not arguing with you, just pointing out that history is written by the victors, and is written in a positive frame.
What I can say is this: History is written by the victors, and is written in a positive frame. The situation in the 1930s was not quite the way it is portrayed in modern media. The country (UK) was diametrically split between fascists and socialists, both of whom were keen to push their barrow at the expense of the UK.
We don’t hear much about the fascists or the socialist agendas during WW2 these days. It is portrayed as an entire nation uniting behind Churchill.
You might also want to look at the people who moved to the USA, Singapore and “Happy Valley” to see that not everyone rallied around the flag in the hour of need. Or maybe look at some of the War Profiteers, who made a fortune out of the war.
Not arguing with you, just pointing out that history is written by the victors, and is written in a positive frame.
The point is that some of those who think that the UK is currently ''doomed'' think that positivity is ''stupid'' (that was your word, wasn't it?).
If we fall in line with you and hereandthere and 'give up' then, yes, the UK will be doomed. But only then.
Feb 20th 2010, 4:16 pm
#87
Account Closed
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,188
Re: Growing financial crisis in Europe???
.
I know history is written by the winners. That's an old cliche. True, but you're not saying anything revelatory there.
The point is that some of those who think that the UK is currently ''doomed'' think that positivity is ''stupid'' (that was your word, wasn't it?).
If we fall in line with you and hereandthere and 'give up' then, yes, the UK will be doomed. But only then.
The point is that some of those who think that the UK is currently ''doomed'' think that positivity is ''stupid'' (that was your word, wasn't it?).
If we fall in line with you and hereandthere and 'give up' then, yes, the UK will be doomed. But only then.
Feb 20th 2010, 4:21 pm
#88
Banned
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 217
Re: Growing financial crisis in Europe???
Indeed.
I referenced Frazer in the opening post of the poll I started on the economy.
Don't really think that these 'realists' (as they like to call themselves) are being all that helpful shouting ''the UK's doomed'' from any and every available soapbox.
I referenced Frazer in the opening post of the poll I started on the economy.
Don't really think that these 'realists' (as they like to call themselves) are being all that helpful shouting ''the UK's doomed'' from any and every available soapbox.
Feb 20th 2010, 4:52 pm
#89
Not allowed opinions.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Sydney
Posts: 4,565
Re: Growing financial crisis in Europe???
Is the thread subjective or objective?
Feb 20th 2010, 4:56 pm
#90
Account Closed
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,188
Re: Growing financial crisis in Europe???
Depends how you assess 'doomed'. The UK is continuing its gentle slide from global powerhouse to mid-rank European nation. It's been happening for decades but the current economic problems it faces are major and look to have the potential to be fairly long term.... much as it pains me to say so.