gruffbrown

Jello would be better, but if you insist

Lion in Winter

Can we compromise and settle on mud?

gruffbrown

I'll get the paddling pool out then.

Lion in Winter

Not if it's still snowing there.

gruffbrown

It's seems we've descended from the BNP to mud wrestling, I'll get me coat or should that be ascended?

BigDavyG

[QUOTE=Lion in Winter] You seem to be saying that just because because crime existed in the UK before that its alright for illegal immigrants to bring more - if I've misunderstood please explain what you are actually on about.
You then go on to point out that legal immigrants and non-immigrants commit crime too - well that's very observant of you, but please explain the significance of this statement to me.

Parting shot from me - you seem to admit that there is an issue with illegal immigration into the UK, though you are convinced that reports are exaggerated. Well, if there is a problem why do you not want it to be fixed, instead you try to justify why it happens in the first place

Lion in Winter

Ascended, definitely. And I wouldn't wear your coat in the mud, it'll be ruined.

Lion in Winter

[BigDavyGQUOTE]You seem to be saying that just because because crime existed in the UK before that its alright for illegal immigrants to bring more -[/QUOTE]

Where?

Already did, several times. Politcal ends, cynical manipulations, blown out of proportion, etc. etc. etc. Check back up the thread.



Simple. Crime and anti-social behaviour are not a function of immigrants and immigration, and it is an utter red herring to whip up fury against all immigrants because some of them commit crimes. Some of all of us commit crimes. (Special note. I am NOT excusing anti-social behaviour, I am describing it. Just before more confusion sets in.)


There you go saying I'm excusing it again. Where?

Also, where did I say that I did not want it to be fixed?

What does "fix" mean to you? What do you propose?

Angry White Pyjamas

How many paper quotes have you seen me post?

I read precisely ZERO newspapers. Most everything I write is my own opinion formed from my own experiences.

Lion in Winter

Got it. Sometimes, though, one's personal experience doesn't give one a wide-enough base of knowledge. Hundreds of years worth of readers, writers and thinkers, all of whom also had experiences, are worth consulting. The same goes for our contemporaries. I have plenty of respect for personal experience - I use what I have seen and experienced in Mexico and Guatemala to argue against so many of the foolish prejudices against immigrants from those places in this country. But there is a wider field, too, than what I have managed to personally see in my years on the planet.

Angry White Pyjamas

I absolutely agree about the wider perspective, but I try to gain that from other peoples personal experiences rather than mass media which always has an agenda of one sort of another. Even the ones I agree with I treat with distrust.

BigDavyG

Seems pretty clear to me - though you can have one last chance - what was the point of you making the statement below...
Whether they brought it to the UK or not is irrelevant - whether or not they do it in the UK is.

Lion in Winter

Distrust is perfectly healthy. We just have to read, gather information, think, analyse for ourselves. Media have agendas. Equally, not everything they publish is lies. We, as intelligent thinking people, must read widely and assess. It is also important to know what is being published in itself, otherwise one doesn't know what those agendas are, and they are worth keeping an eye on if we are to be informed citizens.

Banana?

elfman

Just like George Bush.
Except your experiences sound a little more varied and down to earth than Bush's, which prior to being selected president seem to have consisted mostly of getting pissed and having his dad's rich mates bail out his failing businesses.

Lion in Winter

No, sorry, still not seeing where I said illegal behaviour was ok.

I expect I'm just dense, don't worry about me.