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Old Feb 8th 2016 | 3:30 pm
  #4156  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by Jsmth321
Apparently he is willing to spend 1 billion on a campaign as well.

Former NYC mayor Bloomberg considering US presidential run - National | Globalnews.ca
He must be the dumb billionaire then, cause Trump is making a killing on those hats by running in the Primaries.
 
Old Feb 9th 2016 | 1:13 am
  #4157  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
None of that matters. It's just part of the game. Politicians talk s**t about each other, then shake hands and move on.

George HW Bush denounced Reagan's economic plan as "voodoo economics" (and he was correct.) That didn't prevent him from becoming Reagan's running mate and two-term VP before becoming president himself.

If anything, it's good to maintain the illusion that we have this vigorous process of choosing candidates. It gets Democrats more interested in their party than it would be to have a presumptive nominee ages before the election. In some respects, Bernie Sanders is the best thing that could have happened to Hillary Clinton; it makes the primaries a bit less boring.
For the most part that's true. But many of Sanders' supporters are young first time voters and those that had given up on politics. Now the demographic advantages Hillary and the Democrats have means that she'll still be President even if she loses those supporters. The problem comes further down the ticket, those extra Dem voters could flip House or Senate seats, or make changes at a state level.

If Hillary's goal is just to be President (and there are times when that's what it looks like) then fine, but if it is to actually affect real progressive change, then alienating Sanders's supporters is a bad move.

I agree that Sanders running is definitely a good thing. Even if he loses, his viewpoint is getting debated at a national level. Plus it gives the Clinton campaign a chance to get their shit together before the general, as the GOP aren't going to be as nice as Bernie.
 
Old Feb 9th 2016 | 8:43 am
  #4158  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by zargof
Now the demographic advantages Hillary and the Democrats have means that she'll still be President even if she loses those supporters.
I hope you're not entirely correct that the demographic advantages Hillary has means she'll be President.

If simple demographics means a deeply flawed Democrat will be president, no matter what, even if that candidate loses a significant minority of Democratic voters, then it is not unreasonable to conclude that demographics trumps everything else. If that is the case, then there is a danger of the country tearing itself apart because a significant minority (40-45%?) will not tolerate itself being ruled in perpetuity by the larger bloc of demographic groupings.

I suppose Sen. Ted Kennedy had your thoughts in mind when he euchred LBJ into agreeing to the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965. It was for "the good of the Party."
 
Old Feb 9th 2016 | 8:46 am
  #4159  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius
I hope you're not entirely correct that the demographic advantages Hillary has means she'll be President.

If simple demographics means a deeply flawed Democrat will be president, no matter what, even if that candidate loses a significant minority of Democratic voters, then it is not unreasonable to conclude that demographics trumps everything else. If that is the case, then there is a danger of the country tearing itself apart because a significant minority (40-45%?) will not tolerate itself being ruled in perpetuity by the larger bloc of demographic groupings.

I suppose Sen. Ted Kennedy had your thoughts in mind when he euchred LBJ into agreeing to the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965. It was for "the good of the Party."
I know it seems a strange thing to say after all the effort the GOP has put into appealing to minorities.

Also, let's not forget that a majority of Democrats AND Republicans voted for the INA. Bipartisanship eh, those were the days.

Last edited by zargof; Feb 9th 2016 at 8:55 am.
 
Old Feb 9th 2016 | 8:49 am
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius
If simple demographics means a deeply flawed Democrat will be president, no matter what, even if that candidate loses a significant minority of Democratic voters, then it is not unreasonable to conclude that demographics trumps everything else. If that is the case, then there is a danger of the country tearing itself apart because a significant minority (40-45%?) will not tolerate itself being ruled in perpetuity by the larger bloc of demographic groupings.
That's how democracies work.

The country survived eight years of a "deeply flawed" George Bush.
 
Old Feb 9th 2016 | 9:00 am
  #4161  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius
I hope you're not entirely correct that the demographic advantages Hillary has means she'll be President.

If simple demographics means a deeply flawed Democrat will be president, no matter what, even if that candidate loses a significant minority of Democratic voters, then it is not unreasonable to conclude that demographics trumps everything else. If that is the case, then there is a danger of the country tearing itself apart because a significant minority (40-45%?) will not tolerate itself being ruled in perpetuity by the larger bloc of demographic groupings.

I suppose Sen. Ted Kennedy had your thoughts in mind when he euchred LBJ into agreeing to the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965. It was for "the good of the Party."
As Giantaxe has pointed out, "Simple demographics" is kind of the entire point of democracy. The clue is, possibly, in the root of the word (I know it's Greek, but one would have thought a Roman general would be conversant with the other great Classical language...).

If the GOP does, indeed, lose November's general election to a poor Democratic Party candidate, the inference has to be that they failed to appeal to a sufficiently broad electorate. Perhaps at that point the Republican party will, finally, have an examination of conscience and move away from the more extreme right-wing elements towards a more electable centre ground? Perhaps - shock, horror - there might be a movement within the core of the GOP to try and stop religious fundamentalism supporting so many policy decisions. Perhaps - but no, this would be too much - they might actually see that religion and politics are two different things, and that much as they might both be matters of conscience for some people, it's better that they are kept separate as the Founding Fathers intended.

While the current crop of those trying to outwit Trump are all frantically outdoing each other in an effort to capture the Evangelical vote, they're too busy to notice that this is painting them into a much tighter electoral corner even than that occupied by The Donald's ranting hooliganism.

As an outside observer, I look forward to a time when the US election offers two reasonable alternatives to pick from. On current reckoning, the number of reasonable alternatives in November will be much closer to zero.

Last edited by Oakvillian; Feb 9th 2016 at 9:02 am.
 
Old Feb 9th 2016 | 9:07 am
  #4162  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by Oakvillian
If the GOP does, indeed, lose November's general election to a poor Democratic Party candidate, the inference has to be that they failed to appeal to a sufficiently broad electorate. Perhaps at that point the Republican party will, finally, have an examination of conscience and move away from the more extreme right-wing elements towards a more electable centre ground? Perhaps - shock, horror - there might be a movement within the core of the GOP to try and stop religious fundamentalism supporting so many policy decisions. Perhaps - but no, this would be too much - they might actually see that religion and politics are two different things, and that much as they might both be matters of conscience for some people, it's better that they are kept separate as the Founding Fathers intended.
It's funny you should say that. After they lost last time they did some self reflection and decided it was going to be different, and they would have to appeal more to minorities. As you can see it's working out well for them...

Republican Review of 2012 Losses Calls for Many Changes - Bloomberg Business
 
Old Feb 9th 2016 | 11:30 am
  #4163  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by zargof
It's funny you should say that. After they lost last time they did some self reflection and decided it was going to be different, and they would have to appeal more to minorities. As you can see it's working out well for them...

Republican Review of 2012 Losses Calls for Many Changes - Bloomberg Business
I honestly don't know what more the GOP can do. They've put forth some decent candidates this year --- Jeb, Christie, Kasich, and Paul, being my favorites. I'm glad to see Kasich having a nice surge in New Hampshire. HOWEVER, the constituency has overwhelmingly supported the lying carnival barker and the cheating tent show revivalist. The two very nastiest and divisive individuals in the entire race are also the two most popular at the moment.
 
Old Feb 9th 2016 | 12:47 pm
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by Oakvillian
As Giantaxe has pointed out, "Simple demographics" is kind of the entire point of democracy. The clue is, possibly, in the root of the word (I know it's Greek, but one would have thought a Roman general would be conversant with the other great Classical language...).

If the GOP does, indeed, lose November's general election to a poor Democratic Party candidate, the inference has to be that they failed to appeal to a sufficiently broad electorate. Perhaps at that point the Republican party will, finally, have an examination of conscience and move away from the more extreme right-wing elements towards a more electable centre ground? Perhaps - shock, horror - there might be a movement within the core of the GOP to try and stop religious fundamentalism supporting so many policy decisions. Perhaps - but no, this would be too much - they might actually see that religion and politics are two different things, and that much as they might both be matters of conscience for some people, it's better that they are kept separate as the Founding Fathers intended.

While the current crop of those trying to outwit Trump are all frantically outdoing each other in an effort to capture the Evangelical vote, they're too busy to notice that this is painting them into a much tighter electoral corner even than that occupied by The Donald's ranting hooliganism.

As an outside observer, I look forward to a time when the US election offers two reasonable alternatives to pick from. On current reckoning, the number of reasonable alternatives in November will be much closer to zero.
A little background on my namesake. Aetius was born in Bulgaria, son of a Roman general. He spent his early years as a hostage, first to the Visigoths and afterwards was transferred as a hostage to the Huns. From those two tribes he learned how to be a first-class leader of men. When he returned to the Western Roman Empire, he was immediately made and was the West's most capable general - and its last. He may have spoken Goth and Hun, but unlikely he studied Greek.

To the first of your real points, I would suggest that both South Africa and Zimbabwe are democracies. So are China and North Korea. For all intents and purposes, all are also one-party states. The United States is not a democracy. The Founding Fathers sought to limit the power of a democratic majority, which can indeed be a tyranny. That is why we do not elect our presidents directly by majority vote, and why even the tiniest states, like NH, have the same number of Senators as California.

If I understand you, you are suggesting that if the Republican Party needs to abandon its bedrock principles of adhering to the constitution, supporting property rights, limited government and capitalism and ape the Democratic Party, in the hopes of appealing to the new blocs of voters - who are essentially not accessible to the Republicans anyway.

On display on Monday were Gloria Steinem and Madeleine Albright calling on women to support Hillary...because she is a woman. What would be the media response if at a Republican rally two prominent men called on men to support the Republican candidate...because he is a man?

Any Republican black who runs for Congress or the Senate is labeled an Uncle Tom and a traitor to his race because he is a Republican. Two of the top Republican candidates for President are Hispanic, but they don't count because they're not Mexican enough.

This country is continuously being divided on racial, ethnic, gender and class lines, and that should be of concern to everyone.

Last edited by FlaviusAetius; Feb 9th 2016 at 12:51 pm.
 
Old Feb 9th 2016 | 1:24 pm
  #4165  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Bill Clinton looks like that old geezer on Family Guy.
 
Old Feb 9th 2016 | 1:25 pm
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius
If simple demographics means a deeply flawed Democrat will be president...
For "deeply flawed" read "psychopathic killer of civilians".
 
Old Feb 9th 2016 | 1:26 pm
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Not looking good for Vermin Supreme tonight.
 
Old Feb 9th 2016 | 1:32 pm
  #4168  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by kimilseung
Not looking good for Vermin Supreme tonight.
Haha. I think I know who you mean. If not I'll look like a dick.

Is it weasley ferret-faced snake lizard cheater preacher?
 
Old Feb 9th 2016 | 1:33 pm
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by Leslie
Haha. I think I know who you mean. If not I'll look like a dick.

Is it weasley ferret-faced snake lizard cheater preacher?
Its the guy who wears a wellie on his head. A joke/satirical candidate since 2004 I think. At 0.12%
 
Old Feb 9th 2016 | 1:35 pm
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow
For "deeply flawed" read "psychopathic killer of civilians".
Get ahold of yourself, you fool.
 


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