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Old Dec 27th 2015 | 11:34 am
  #2671  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by Leslie
Sure you can dismiss the article because of bias or quality of writing. But, at the end of the day, the Republican's biggest problem isn't the media or the Dems ... the GOP is fractured and is cannibalizing itself.

The Southern strategy was hugely effective at getting the white working class to abandon the Democratic party. Now, 40 to 50 years later, the Republican party needs to attract new cohorts in order to make the numbers work for the White House. The establishment understands this but the base looks at it as a betrayal. Trump plays only to the base. This is an entirely internal problem.
I do dismiss Chauncey's polemic on both counts. If there's an original thought in that long, long screed, I wish someone would point it out, but most probably haven't bothered to read it.

I think you've put your finger on at least a large part of the problem, and the problem Trump is creating. The people who turn out for the midterm elections are only a fraction of the usual turnout for the generals and those true believers are discouraged by the results of their efforts. Trump is stirring that pot and turning up the heat under it.

The true believers are looking for results matching their victories. Since that's not happening, the Republican Party is in danger of fracturing and, I believe, there will be a major realignment of the electorate within 10 years. I fear that this realignment may be, essentially, on racial/tribal lines.

Before our leftist friends on this thread dance their victory dance at the prospect, they should understand they might not enjoy the results; whichever party gains power as a result is likely to be be extremely authoritarian by today's standards.

Last edited by FlaviusAetius; Dec 27th 2015 at 11:37 am.
 
Old Dec 27th 2015 | 12:55 pm
  #2672  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius

Before our leftist friends on this thread dance their victory dance at the prospect, they should understand they might not enjoy the results; whichever party gains power as a result is likely to be be extremely authoritarian by today's standards.
What if when the dems win they just do nice things like universal healthcare, minimum wages, and puppies for all?
 
Old Dec 27th 2015 | 1:14 pm
  #2673  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by sir_eccles
What if when the dems win they just do nice things like universal healthcare, minimum wages, and puppies for all?
Each of those lovely programs requires intervention and use of the power of the State, including forcing cat owners to take in, feed and care for puppies and to face fines or imprisonment if they fail to care for animals - puppies - that they thoroughly dislike and would never otherwise own.

Remember:

From the podium: "Rejoice! After the Revolution everyone will enjoy strawberries and cream!"

From the back of the crowded hall: "But I don't like strawberries and cream."

From the podium: (After a pause) "I want Security to check that man's identity documents and take his name. Now everyone, let me be very clear. After the Revolution you WILL enjoy strawberries and cream!"

Last edited by FlaviusAetius; Dec 27th 2015 at 1:16 pm.
 
Old Dec 27th 2015 | 1:18 pm
  #2674  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Puppies!
 
Old Dec 27th 2015 | 1:23 pm
  #2675  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Strawberries and cream!
 
Old Dec 27th 2015 | 1:32 pm
  #2676  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius
I do dismiss Chauncey's polemic on both counts. If there's an original thought in that long, long screed, I wish someone would point it out, but most probably haven't bothered to read it.

I think you've put your finger on at least a large part of the problem, and the problem Trump is creating. The people who turn out for the midterm elections are only a fraction of the usual turnout for the generals and those true believers are discouraged by the results of their efforts. Trump is stirring that pot and turning up the heat under it.

The true believers are looking for results matching their victories. Since that's not happening, the Republican Party is in danger of fracturing and, I believe, there will be a major realignment of the electorate within 10 years. I fear that this realignment may be, essentially, on racial/tribal lines.

Before our leftist friends on this thread dance their victory dance at the prospect, they should understand they might not enjoy the results; whichever party gains power as a result is likely to be be extremely authoritarian by today's standards.
I think the process works better when both parties are strong.

Having watched the US become ever more pulled to the right, just in the course of my lifetime, maybe this is simply a necessary correction.
 
Old Dec 27th 2015 | 1:33 pm
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Some food for thought.

The GOP has become the party from George Orwell’s nightmares - Salon.com


Lest there be any confusion, I believe as a longtime independent that it isn't that the Democrat wing of the ruling class is actually worth a shit either, but rather that the Conservative wing today at least, is infinitely worse. This changes as their respective political power ebbs and flows.
 
Old Dec 27th 2015 | 2:12 pm
  #2678  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by CelticRover
Some food for thought.

The GOP has become the party from George Orwell’s nightmares - Salon.com


Lest there be any confusion, I believe as a longtime independent that it isn't that the Democrat wing of the ruling class is actually worth a shit either, but rather that the Conservative wing today at least, is infinitely worse. This changes as their respective political power ebbs and flows.
Another Salon.com article.
 
Old Dec 27th 2015 | 3:07 pm
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Default Re: 2016 Election

There is much, much more to the human condition than merely Left/Right, polarized thinking, but in the meantime, in the interest of equal opportunity googling, I offer this propaganda piece for you, Flavius.


20 Reasons Why It Should Be Donald Trump in 2016
 
Old Dec 27th 2015 | 5:06 pm
  #2680  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Breitbart. The definitive answer to Salon.com.
 
Old Dec 27th 2015 | 5:09 pm
  #2681  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius
Each of those lovely programs requires intervention and use of the power of the State, including forcing cat owners to take in, feed and care for puppies and to face fines or imprisonment if they fail to care for animals - puppies - that they thoroughly dislike and would never otherwise own.
Free puppies for some, no puppies for others, miniature American flags for all.
 
Old Dec 28th 2015 | 1:38 am
  #2682  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by SultanOfSwing
Free puppies for some, no puppies for others, miniature American flags for all.
Don't blame me, I voted for kodos.
 
Old Dec 28th 2015 | 3:35 am
  #2683  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

I love free stuff. If the US goes uber-liberal, starts letting anyone in, starts giving away all kinds of free stuff, and makes it obligatory to hire you at high salaries and requires employers to pay you a fortune to fire you, then I'm upping sticks and moving over. Maybe get a cushy government job where you do nothing and get paid a fortune for it (probably the only jobs left anyway).

Well, while it lasts at least... Or until the tax burden catches up with those other dreamy "Europeanisations".

Last edited by amideislas; Dec 28th 2015 at 3:37 am.
 
Old Dec 28th 2015 | 3:40 am
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by amideislas
I love free stuff. If the US goes uber-liberal, starts letting anyone in, starts giving away all kinds of free stuff, and makes it obligatory to hire you at high salaries and requires employers to pay you a fortune to fire you, then I'm upping sticks and moving over. Maybe get a cushy government job where you do nothing and get paid a fortune for it (probably the only jobs left anyway).

Well, while it lasts at least... Or until the tax burden catches up with those other dreamy "Europeanisations".
Those must be some expensive drugs you're taking.
 
Old Dec 28th 2015 | 3:56 am
  #2685  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Well, we used to have all those things in Spain, but then those rotten politicians imposed stupid "austerity" to keep from going bankrupt (their fault, not ours), and now there's a lot less free stuff.

You have to pay for healthcare, salaries are lower, paltry, short-lived unemployment benefits, it's no longer obligatory for employers to give 6 weeks of paid holiday, takes years to get a free council house...

Government used to be the largest employer, and it generally took 3 people to do the work of one, but no more. Now private enterprises are taking over as the largest employer, and they don't give away free stuff either. And you actually have to do stuff at work, and if you don't, you can be canned without them buying you a new house.

Yet the tax burden is still the same. Maybe a little higher.

But the rotten right-wing politicians who imposed all this burden on the population have been voted out (well, not exactly, they have no majority, so they have to form a government with their opposition), but we have Podemos, a far-left party who wants to return to the "good old days" so maybe free stuff will return. Well, until Spain goes bankrupt again.

Last edited by amideislas; Dec 28th 2015 at 5:44 am.
 


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