At war again?

Old Mar 21st 2011, 8:48 pm
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Default Re: At war again?

Originally Posted by rachelk View Post
That is still one of the most horrifying things I have ever seen. We all watched on the news the blue berets helping to load people onto buses, separating the men from the women and children and nobody did anything to stop it.
Gaddaffi has been doing this to his enemies for decades, his barbarity to his own people, even his own tribe, has kept him in power all this time, he provides about 3% of the worlds oil so I'm sorry, I just don't buy the whole oil thing.


Its funny though, the usual suspects have all popped up on the thread to start wringing their hands with their usual ill informed nonsense about their own warped world view and personal opinions about things they don't understand.
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Old Mar 21st 2011, 8:52 pm
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Default Re: At war again?

I really don't know how I feel about this. I don't like the idea of intervening in other people's disputes and I'm deeply suspicious of the motives for doing so.

But sometimes you just can't stand by and watch and I'd like to think that at least some of those who've voted for military action did so for the 'right' reasons.
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Old Mar 21st 2011, 8:58 pm
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Default Re: At war again?

Originally Posted by rachelk View Post
But sometimes you just can't stand by and watch .
100% agree.
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Old Mar 21st 2011, 9:20 pm
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Default Re: At war again?

Originally Posted by rachelk View Post
I really don't know how I feel about this. I don't like the idea of intervening in other people's disputes and I'm deeply suspicious of the motives for doing so.

But sometimes you just can't stand by and watch and I'd like to think that at least some of those who've voted for military action did so for the 'right' reasons.
I understand your logic, but the trouble is that a prolonged period of bombing normally leaves the country in a worse state. It's not really helped by this half-war situation that the UN has voted for, which will leave Libya in a far more damaged situation if it continues for a long time. War should only really be taken up when your own country is under threat, and at that point all resources should be dedicated to winning the conflict. To be fair the armed forces (especially the French it has to be admitted) have done their best to take out Gadaffi's forces as effectively as possible under the limits of the UN resolution. It's a sick world though, that allows the killing of foot-soldiers, ancillaries etc but prohibits the targeting of the monster(s) in charge of the regime.
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Old Mar 21st 2011, 10:04 pm
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Default Re: At war again?

Originally Posted by steviedeluxe View Post
Fantastic post - karma given,

I'm afraid I can't praise Cameron for his actions so far. He came to power promising to avoid getting into world military actions a la Blair, but here we are bombing another country into the stone age. I know there was a UN resolution passed this time, but seeing as the two major hawks were Sarkozy and Cameron - two politicians seeing their ratings slump at home - it doesn't mean it's been a wise move. In fact the Tory government seem to have consistently got this conflict wrong from the start eg claiming G had gone off to Venezuela, that strange incident with the SAS bodyguards etc. I'm just hoping this latest stage is over within a short time (although I'm not over-optimistic). Otherwise we could see a long drawn-out civil war in Libya, which would be disastrous for the population. I still think Cameron has been keen to provoke this war in the hope of notching a win over a dictator and thus being able to smear Labour as the dictator's friend. He knows his economic policies are proving disastrous for Britain (not that Gordon's were any good either) and that the Lib dems will implode before the year is out. Thus, he's taken this gamble. The only plus point is that it stops him doing the same over Bahrein, Sudan etc. The UN will have learnt their lesson after this I think. Or is that misplaced hope
Stevie I am sending you some karma for this, for once I agree with you

Bad as Gaddafi is how do they know the rag bag of rebels are actually a majority...and what will be waiting on the scene if he goes. It looks as if they have extended the mandate from the UN. More like regime change.
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Old Mar 21st 2011, 10:13 pm
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Default Re: At war again?

In Gaddafi you have a man who used anti aircraft weapons to shoot at the crowds protesting in Benghazi.

Crimes against humanity, war crimes, call it what you will, he should face trial, not allowed to go on slaughtering his own people.
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Old Mar 21st 2011, 10:15 pm
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Default Re: At war again?

Originally Posted by jackytoo View Post
Stevie I am sending you some karma for this, for once I agree with you

Bad as Gaddafi is how do they know the rag bag of rebels are actually a majority...and what will be waiting on the scene if he goes. It looks as if they have extended the mandate from the UN. More like regime change.
Strange times indeed - thx for the backup and karma. I agree, we really don't know much about the Libyan opposition. Not that should matter to us - we should keep out of another countries internal affairs. Or should we be interfering in Sudan, Zimbabwe, the Congo, Bahrein, Tibet...etc etc? Political support ok, but sending the bombs over doesn't seem to have a high success rate... I just hope I'm wrong on this occasion.
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Old Mar 21st 2011, 10:16 pm
  #83  
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Default Re: At war again?

Originally Posted by steviedeluxe View Post
Strange times indeed - thx for the backup and karma. I agree, we really don't know much about the Libyan opposition. Not that should matter to us - we should keep out of another countries internal affairs. Or should we be interfering in Sudan, Zimbabwe, the Congo, Bahrein, Tibet...etc etc? Political support ok, but sending the bombs over doesn't seem to have a high success rate... I just hope I'm wrong on this occasion.
In that case tear up the united nations, and say bollocks to it all. If the ruler of a country wants to butcher his own people, that's none of our business, right?
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Old Mar 21st 2011, 10:19 pm
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Default Re: At war again?

Originally Posted by bil View Post
In that case tear up the united nations, and say bollocks to it all. If the ruler of a country wants to butcher his own people, that's none of our business, right?
I think there's a huge difference between having boycotts, sanctions etc. and sending the bombs over. Ok, so sanctions don't always work, but it seems that the bombing nearly always creates bigger problems. Still hoping I'm wrong on this occasion, but if we see a protracted war within Libya the normal folks are surely going to come off worse?
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Old Mar 21st 2011, 10:22 pm
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Default Re: At war again?

Originally Posted by steviedeluxe View Post
I think there's a huge difference between having boycotts, sanctions etc. and sending the bombs over. Ok, so sanctions don't always work, but it seems that the bombing nearly always creates bigger problems. Still hoping I'm wrong on this occasion, but if we see a protracted war within Libya the normal folks are surely going to come off worse?
No... they never have, ever
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Old Mar 21st 2011, 10:25 pm
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Default Re: At war again?

Originally Posted by rugbymatt View Post
No... they never have, ever
I think they brought some pressure to bear on South Africa.
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Old Mar 21st 2011, 10:28 pm
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Default Re: At war again?

Originally Posted by Sally Redux View Post
I think they brought some pressure to bear on South Africa.
You're right Sally, but RM will disagree and claim he knows best and we mere mortals know nothing. Not a lot of point engaging with him when he can write something like this:

Its funny though, the usual suspects have all popped up on the thread to start wringing their hands with their usual ill informed nonsense about their own warped world view and personal opinions about things they don't understand.
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Old Mar 21st 2011, 10:31 pm
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Default Re: At war again?

Originally Posted by steviedeluxe View Post
but here we are bombing another country into the stone age.
Er,excuse me, but wheres your evidence that we're bombing another country into the stoneage ?????????????

I've heard some claptrap, but that takes the biscuit, in view of the fact that only military targets have been attacked and the utmost care has been taken to try and avoid civilian casualties and residential areas.

I have little doubt that if action hadn't been pushed through and taken just in the nick of time to prevent mass slaughter, you'd have been first on the bandwagon complaining.
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Old Mar 21st 2011, 10:35 pm
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Default Re: At war again?

Originally Posted by steviedeluxe View Post
You're right Sally, but RM will disagree and claim he knows best and we mere mortals know nothing. Not a lot of point engaging with him when he can write something like this:
I admit I don't know a tremendous amount about Libya but I believe it is valid to express concerns about the action. Don't forget 'we' supported the Mujihadeen in Afghanistan with disastrous consequences.
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Old Mar 21st 2011, 10:36 pm
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Default Re: At war again?

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly View Post
Er,excuse me, but wheres your evidence that we're bombing another country into the stoneage ?????????????

I've heard some claptrap, but that takes the biscuit, in view of the fact that only military targets have been attacked and the utmost care has been taken to try and avoid civilian casualties and residential areas.

I have little doubt that if action hadn't been pushed through and taken just in the nick of time to prevent mass slaughter, you'd have been first on the bandwagon complaining.
Excellent point. We would be damned if we do, damned if we don't.

Personally I would rather we were damned for trying to protect people from a mad butcher and his disgusting offspring.
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