Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC
Mar 4th 2010, 2:45 pm
#556
Forum Regular
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 245
Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC
Do not worry Barb. If you have an invoice, they may not request it again. Save it!.
Mar 4th 2010, 3:05 pm
#557
Just Joined
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 11
Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC
Thank you, Spanish Lawyer, we DEFINITELY will!!
Mar 4th 2010, 5:07 pm
#558
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Puente Esuri
Posts: 6,904
Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC
Thanks for the replies.
Carol, the Servicio de Gestión Tributaria is responsible for managing the collection of contributions from the EUC. Therefore, if the fee payment must be made directly to that body.
I've never had a bad opinion about the work of LGC. However, I do not understand how you can make a payment in October and in February (after 4 months) payment is not counted. I do not understand that Barb (welcome) has directly paid to LGC and do not include the payment as income on the EUC. Nor I can understand how to present in February a few accounts in late December that do not reflect the real state.
If I did not read in this thread that some people have paid, I think that really only three people have done.
Carol, the Servicio de Gestión Tributaria is responsible for managing the collection of contributions from the EUC. Therefore, if the fee payment must be made directly to that body.
I've never had a bad opinion about the work of LGC. However, I do not understand how you can make a payment in October and in February (after 4 months) payment is not counted. I do not understand that Barb (welcome) has directly paid to LGC and do not include the payment as income on the EUC. Nor I can understand how to present in February a few accounts in late December that do not reflect the real state.
If I did not read in this thread that some people have paid, I think that really only three people have done.
Mar 5th 2010, 12:22 pm
#559
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Widnes
Posts: 424
Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC
We paid our EUC fees on the 2/12/2009 at Bank Andalucia round the corner from the council tax office and have the receipt for the payment at 09.00 and we paid almost €300 so I don't know where they get the small amount as paid from. Jon Bxl and us will amount to the total quoted by L & G!
But speaking to friends when out there some had not recieved any demands or invoices?,so hence not paid.
Ken.
Mar 5th 2010, 1:13 pm
#560
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Joined: Nov 2005
Location: In your nightmares.
Posts: 834
Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC
The ONLY reason we knew about it in the first place was because people started talking about it on here late last year.I doubt if there will be any demand appearing in anyones letterbox as it seems to be the payers obligation to know about the bill and not the EUC to tell them. To me the EUC was set up hastily and with what seems quite a bit of secrecy so is no surprise that most people were unaware of it until late last year . And I can guarantee that there are still a lot of owners that are still blissfully unaware that they will have to cough up for last year plus a nice fine for late payment.The whole thing is a mess and if the EUC have currently in employment a director of communications he should be publicly flogged town square.
Mar 5th 2010, 4:14 pm
#561
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Ruislip Middlesex
Posts: 57
Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC
Hi Carol et al- thanks for taking the time for the snippets. Gives me a chance to review things and my previous posts. Note these are all my personal opinions - I am not a sage, nor will I be found sitting on a rock somewhere near the 19th hole wearing a loincloth doling out advice And if you see me at the 19th DONT kick me, the bar will collapse, as I will, more likely, be propping it up 
Firstly as you say, there are a just few separate people/individuals who post on this thread. There are more individuals who posts on other threads in the 'Ayamonte club'. I don't want to be part of a small 'knitting circle' of like minded people if in the end there isn't a high level of interest. That's why I am pleased about the Associations:
PRIORITY, as I've mentioned to death. First priority: A concerted effort to get the BANK GUARANTEES. Of which I will do whatever required of us.
The Associations OA and RA:
I am very happy that CE people are organising and am positive about the potential of this - and hope WE can get involved and make it a success.
If you have feedback and ideas about the Associations - then I suggest, if you havent already, GET INVOLVED: Join the OA + give feedback... and... Also feedback to the posters about the RA meeting. Then we (non-attendees) all wait to see what happens on the OA meet 25th and if necessary join them. This forum is not the place to make change, when the plans are already in place for the OA and RA.... Remember they are not using the forum and will create their own separate communications (blogs etc).
As I say above I am convinced that 1) They are in the know 2) They are NOT 2 warring tribes 3) Will be interested in each others ideas 4) Are genuine people concerned with the improvement and proper management of CE.
Thats it - I think Ive had my say.... time to let, hopefully 'the good times roll'
Jon
And if you see me at the 19th DONT kick me, the bar will collapse, as I will, more likely, be propping it up Firstly as you say, there are a just few separate people/individuals who post on this thread. There are more individuals who posts on other threads in the 'Ayamonte club'. I don't want to be part of a small 'knitting circle' of like minded people if in the end there isn't a high level of interest. That's why I am pleased about the Associations:
PRIORITY, as I've mentioned to death. First priority: A concerted effort to get the BANK GUARANTEES. Of which I will do whatever required of us.
The Associations OA and RA:
- Its hardly surprising that they have come to being: The EUC has been awful: Poor communications; conflict of interest allegations in the National press; No attempt to stem fears that they are self serving or self interested group etc etc. I could go on but we all know the score
- Ideally we should have 1 Assosc. But we need to be careful that we don't overdo the implied criticism of them being 2 organisations. These are good people coming together to form a group to improve it for all. Sounds like 2 initiatives have come into being as an aftermath to EUC frustrations. The RA have met before but now want to formalise and the OA is new. Both are talking about setting up blog sites and the like.
- Don't forget that they, OA and RA, HAVENT had their first meetings yet (to formalise an organisation). There is an opportunity to discuss everything at these meetings. Lets not get hung up on names at this early stage - they will sort it out.
- Likewise they can go to each others meetings (I hope) and discuss either forming 1 group or working together in 2. I think the people involved with the fledgling associations (OA+RA) - even if they dont use this forum - are fully aware of the issues about multi-assoscs, names etc. Lets have confidence in them.
- Neither OA. RA are using/posting on this forum for 'official business'. Arthur (OA) opened a thread just to publicise the OA and get support. The RA meeting has been presented by 2 posters to date the meeting and invite attendance. But we are waiting for more RA information - obviously to come after the 25th. Also, again, both have mentioned that they will have a blog site. This forum topic will naturally shut down when the IT is in place.
- 1) John+Kath (J+K) asked the OA to consider changing its name. 2) J+K also posted information about the RA meeting on 25/3. Its 2 separate things. Then when there was a big reaction about 2 groups. J+K said 'dont shoot the messenger'. Carol Taff recently said that J+K were involved in choosing the name for the RA. This would imply that J+K are involved in the RA - if so it is good news as everybody respects them. I'm not sure, however, what their actual level of involvement is with the RA though (it's just just my conjecture based on Taff's post)
- Renters: I dont know if they have voting rights based on IBI payments etc, I dont even know if they will pay these or the owners will. But I prefer an association of people who own properties here. I am open to discussion though
- Block votes: I am not a lawyer but am convinced that the communities and intercommunities will have nothing to do with the Assoscs. Mutually exclusive ... no default block votes. The only way to get a sort of block vote - is to arrive at the meeting with a 'block' of individual letters giving proxy. In the highly improbable event that there is a link - I am not interested. Again I am sure this will not be the case.
- This forum is not the place to get participation in major initiatives. This comes from the Assocs. So I am waiting with great interest to see what comes of them. I personally, will want to see that we make a concerted effort for the bank guarantees. If not I will be personally disappointed, and will not want to get on their blogs if its just another discussion forum like this one. In which case I personally will have to accept that the EUC have 'won', they really have it sewn up and are in control and I cant effectively do anything about them and their ways. Except: Pay up and shut up. or Not pay and appeal and see what happens. Or not pay and take it to court.
I am very happy that CE people are organising and am positive about the potential of this - and hope WE can get involved and make it a success.
If you have feedback and ideas about the Associations - then I suggest, if you havent already, GET INVOLVED: Join the OA + give feedback... and... Also feedback to the posters about the RA meeting. Then we (non-attendees) all wait to see what happens on the OA meet 25th and if necessary join them. This forum is not the place to make change, when the plans are already in place for the OA and RA.... Remember they are not using the forum and will create their own separate communications (blogs etc).
As I say above I am convinced that 1) They are in the know 2) They are NOT 2 warring tribes 3) Will be interested in each others ideas 4) Are genuine people concerned with the improvement and proper management of CE.
Thats it - I think Ive had my say.... time to let, hopefully 'the good times roll'
Jon
I'm not sure I understand what Jon is getting at in the second marked area. It seems to me that a Residents Association will not have power beyond that of persuasion and the pressure emanating from expressing the combined view of a significant number of owners. The real power will always rest with the Local Authority and the EUC. For the former, how it is seen that CE owners vote in local elections will have some influence; for the latter, its policy will be totally governed by the voting of its constituents. In this context, those of us that are in Inter-Communities will have no direct voting power, but will need to rely on our Presidents to reflect our wishes. Thus the power lies with the Presidents. If follows that we badly need all our IC Presidents on board. After all, they are also owners and are likely to be totally aligned with our views. We should, therefore do all we can, to not only get Steven Tipper (Vista Esuri President) to the meeting, but also the Presidents of Lomas, Marina Esuri, Rago 1, etc, as well. I suggest that the combined votes of the Presidents of all the ICs will easily outvote those of Fadesa.
Taff
Mar 6th 2010, 7:07 am
#562
BE Positive
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,980
Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC
At Post 5 of the CE Owners Group forum, John (J&K) suggested a change of name to CE Residents Group to allow long term renters to be included. At Post 466 of this forum, he states that an informal group of long term residents had decided that a properly constituted Residents Association should be formed, and called a meeting on 25 March to achieve this. Hence I concluded that John was not only involved but would be attending the 25 March meeting. I'm concerned that it would appear that C&J will not be there (Post 549). Do I also understand that SL will also be absent (Post 549)? We badly need her involvement, as a Spanish presence is essential, and we badly need Spanish Legal expertise.
I'm not sure I understand what Jon is getting at in the second marked area. It seems to me that a Residents Association will not have power beyond that of persuasion and the pressure emanating from expressing the combined view of a significant number of owners. The real power will always rest with the Local Authority and the EUC. For the former, how it is seen that CE owners vote in local elections will have some influence; for the latter, its policy will be totally governed by the voting of its constituents. In this context, those of us that are in Inter-Communities will have no direct voting power, but will need to rely on our Presidents to reflect our wishes. Thus the power lies with the Presidents. If follows that we badly need all our IC Presidents on board. After all, they are also owners and are likely to be totally aligned with our views. We should, therefore do all we can, to not only get Steven Tipper (Vista Esuri President) to the meeting, but also the Presidents of Lomas, Marina Esuri, Rago 1, etc, as well. I suggest that the combined votes of the Presidents of all the ICs will easily outvote those of Fadesa.
Taff
I'm not sure I understand what Jon is getting at in the second marked area. It seems to me that a Residents Association will not have power beyond that of persuasion and the pressure emanating from expressing the combined view of a significant number of owners. The real power will always rest with the Local Authority and the EUC. For the former, how it is seen that CE owners vote in local elections will have some influence; for the latter, its policy will be totally governed by the voting of its constituents. In this context, those of us that are in Inter-Communities will have no direct voting power, but will need to rely on our Presidents to reflect our wishes. Thus the power lies with the Presidents. If follows that we badly need all our IC Presidents on board. After all, they are also owners and are likely to be totally aligned with our views. We should, therefore do all we can, to not only get Steven Tipper (Vista Esuri President) to the meeting, but also the Presidents of Lomas, Marina Esuri, Rago 1, etc, as well. I suggest that the combined votes of the Presidents of all the ICs will easily outvote those of Fadesa.
Taff
My understanding is that a properly constitited Association is NEW completely separate from the community/intercommunity model we have. If its set up properly it has strong legal powers and authority as well. My understanding is that this is what happened in Canela / P Umbria(or somewhere). So strong legally that they effectively brought down their EUC (or equivalent). So the association, in actual fact, had the 'real power' in the end.
My view is that the presidents of the IC/Community don't automatically carry a block vote as its a residents association. Actually its what I would want. I dont want the IC/communities model formally written into a constitution for a properly set up Association. In the unlikely event that this is written in, and my vote is given by default I will not be happy. However if a group of residents individually want to give proxy to ANYBODY, like say a president its up to them. In my view therefore e.g Mr Tipper does NOT bring block vote to the table, automatically. He has to ask for it, AND formally get it individually from the residents.
Lets say that I am part of a group that have come together from all across CE, different ragos. developments. We have met and informally called ourselves the 'Knowledgeable New Owners of Bicycles'.... = Knobs
I can represent them if they give me their proxy... no community/IC president should automatically take my vote.
Jon
PS Taff - you seem to know Mr Tipper. I dont at all. Please can you ask him, as treasurer, to ensure that the EUC 2009 official minutes include our debts and accounts from 2009. We are obligated to pay these debts, through the EUC and I believe its a requirement from the board that they tell us what they are!!!. Also they should tell us how much money they have received. Again as we pay I believe its an obligation they should honour. Even with their crazy accounts system, they should know by now!!!!! This transparency will allow us to determine for ourselves the numbers and make some analyses of our own.
Mar 6th 2010, 9:04 am
#563
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: Puente Esuri
Posts: 6,904
Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC
Hi Taff
My understanding is that a properly constitited Association is NEW completely separate from the community/intercommunity model we have. If its set up properly it has strong legal powers and authority as well. My understanding is that this is what happened in Canela / P Umbria(or somewhere). So strong legally that they effectively brought down their EUC (or equivalent). So the association, in actual fact, had the 'real power' in the end.
My view is that the presidents of the IC/Community don't automatically carry a block vote as its a residents association. Actually its what I would want. I dont want the IC/communities model formally written into a constitution for a properly set up Association. In the unlikely event that this is written in, and my vote is given by default I will not be happy. However if a group of residents individually want to give proxy to ANYBODY, like say a president its up to them. In my view therefore e.g Mr Tipper does NOT bring block vote to the table, automatically. He has to ask for it, AND formally get it individually from the residents.
Lets say that I am part of a group that have come together from all across CE, different ragos. developments. We have met and informally called ourselves the 'Knowledgeable New Owners of Bicycles'.... = Knobs
I can represent them if they give me their proxy... no community/IC president should automatically take my vote.
Jon
PS Taff - you seem to know Mr Tipper. I dont at all. Please can you ask him, as treasurer, to ensure that the EUC 2009 official minutes include our debts and accounts from 2009. We are obligated to pay these debts, through the EUC and I believe its a requirement from the board that they tell us what they are!!!. Also they should tell us how much money they have received. Again as we pay I believe its an obligation they should honour. Even with their crazy accounts system, they should know by now!!!!! This transparency will allow us to determine for ourselves the numbers and make some analyses of our own.
My understanding is that a properly constitited Association is NEW completely separate from the community/intercommunity model we have. If its set up properly it has strong legal powers and authority as well. My understanding is that this is what happened in Canela / P Umbria(or somewhere). So strong legally that they effectively brought down their EUC (or equivalent). So the association, in actual fact, had the 'real power' in the end.
My view is that the presidents of the IC/Community don't automatically carry a block vote as its a residents association. Actually its what I would want. I dont want the IC/communities model formally written into a constitution for a properly set up Association. In the unlikely event that this is written in, and my vote is given by default I will not be happy. However if a group of residents individually want to give proxy to ANYBODY, like say a president its up to them. In my view therefore e.g Mr Tipper does NOT bring block vote to the table, automatically. He has to ask for it, AND formally get it individually from the residents.
Lets say that I am part of a group that have come together from all across CE, different ragos. developments. We have met and informally called ourselves the 'Knowledgeable New Owners of Bicycles'.... = Knobs
I can represent them if they give me their proxy... no community/IC president should automatically take my vote.
Jon
PS Taff - you seem to know Mr Tipper. I dont at all. Please can you ask him, as treasurer, to ensure that the EUC 2009 official minutes include our debts and accounts from 2009. We are obligated to pay these debts, through the EUC and I believe its a requirement from the board that they tell us what they are!!!. Also they should tell us how much money they have received. Again as we pay I believe its an obligation they should honour. Even with their crazy accounts system, they should know by now!!!!! This transparency will allow us to determine for ourselves the numbers and make some analyses of our own.
My understanding of the situation at Canela as posted by SL some time ago is exactly the same as yours Jon and the EUC at Canela was dissolved. If this happens at CE so be it but we must have an organisation to take its place and under the Horizontal Property Law the next one down in the pecking order would be a Residents Association but it must be properly constituted and Registered. Thats where I am coming from.
Mar 6th 2010, 10:00 am
#564
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: costa esuri
Posts: 104
Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC
Hi Taff
My understanding is that a properly constitited Association is NEW completely separate from the community/intercommunity model we have. If its set up properly it has strong legal powers and authority as well. My understanding is that this is what happened in Canela / P Umbria(or somewhere). So strong legally that they effectively brought down their EUC (or equivalent). So the association, in actual fact, had the 'real power' in the end.
My view is that the presidents of the IC/Community don't automatically carry a block vote as its a residents association. Actually its what I would want. I dont want the IC/communities model formally written into a constitution for a properly set up Association. In the unlikely event that this is written in, and my vote is given by default I will not be happy. However if a group of residents individually want to give proxy to ANYBODY, like say a president its up to them. In my view therefore e.g Mr Tipper does NOT bring block vote to the table, automatically. He has to ask for it, AND formally get it individually from the residents.
Lets say that I am part of a group that have come together from all across CE, different ragos. developments. We have met and informally called ourselves the 'Knowledgeable New Owners of Bicycles'.... = Knobs
I can represent them if they give me their proxy... no community/IC president should automatically take my vote.
Jon
PS Taff - you seem to know Mr Tipper. I dont at all. Please can you ask him, as treasurer, to ensure that the EUC 2009 official minutes include our debts and accounts from 2009. We are obligated to pay these debts, through the EUC and I believe its a requirement from the board that they tell us what they are!!!. Also they should tell us how much money they have received. Again as we pay I believe its an obligation they should honour. Even with their crazy accounts system, they should know by now!!!!! This transparency will allow us to determine for ourselves the numbers and make some analyses of our own.
My understanding is that a properly constitited Association is NEW completely separate from the community/intercommunity model we have. If its set up properly it has strong legal powers and authority as well. My understanding is that this is what happened in Canela / P Umbria(or somewhere). So strong legally that they effectively brought down their EUC (or equivalent). So the association, in actual fact, had the 'real power' in the end.
My view is that the presidents of the IC/Community don't automatically carry a block vote as its a residents association. Actually its what I would want. I dont want the IC/communities model formally written into a constitution for a properly set up Association. In the unlikely event that this is written in, and my vote is given by default I will not be happy. However if a group of residents individually want to give proxy to ANYBODY, like say a president its up to them. In my view therefore e.g Mr Tipper does NOT bring block vote to the table, automatically. He has to ask for it, AND formally get it individually from the residents.
Lets say that I am part of a group that have come together from all across CE, different ragos. developments. We have met and informally called ourselves the 'Knowledgeable New Owners of Bicycles'.... = Knobs
I can represent them if they give me their proxy... no community/IC president should automatically take my vote.
Jon
PS Taff - you seem to know Mr Tipper. I dont at all. Please can you ask him, as treasurer, to ensure that the EUC 2009 official minutes include our debts and accounts from 2009. We are obligated to pay these debts, through the EUC and I believe its a requirement from the board that they tell us what they are!!!. Also they should tell us how much money they have received. Again as we pay I believe its an obligation they should honour. Even with their crazy accounts system, they should know by now!!!!! This transparency will allow us to determine for ourselves the numbers and make some analyses of our own.
I agree with you. The associations must be independent of the communities, each owner must have own voice to firmly defend our interests and our rights in Puente Esuri, that today do not seem the same as advocates the EUC.
Mar 6th 2010, 10:37 am
#565
Forum Regular
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: costa esuri
Posts: 104
Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC
[QUOTE=John & Kath;8398740]
At the first informal meeting Steve Tipper said that he would act as a conduit to take the views of the new body to the EUC meetings and that was all. He does not want to be on the cmttee of the new body nor does he seek office in the new body.
Hi John&Kath
I think that " one can not be judge and jury in a trial ".
At the first informal meeting Steve Tipper said that he would act as a conduit to take the views of the new body to the EUC meetings and that was all. He does not want to be on the cmttee of the new body nor does he seek office in the new body.
Hi John&Kath
I think that " one can not be judge and jury in a trial ".
Mar 7th 2010, 11:46 am
#566
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Ruislip Middlesex
Posts: 57
Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC
Help!! I feel I am drowning under the collecting voice of those wanting replacement of the EUC by the RA/OG. Please, please be careful and make sure that you are not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I seems to me that the EUC is a very useful and extremely powerful organization. It lays down the rules which enables a large urbanization to be effectively managed during the period between when its maintenance is provided by the developer, and the local authority taking over this responsibility. Not least of its attributes is that of ensuring that a minority do not have the power of blocking what is required by the majority. This includes providing the legal power to force all owners to pay their contribution regardless of whether they agree with how the money is being used, provided that was agreed by the majority (subject to certain limitations).
I believe that a non exclusive, voluntarily formed, group of owners within an RA/OG could never have this power irrespective of whether it was properly constituted and registered. Thus, the aim of the RA/OG should be to ensure that the EUC is doing its job correctly and in accordance with the majority view, rather than replacing it. The main problem with the EUC is that its voting system is not seen to be democratic; however, its difficult to envisage a better system. After all it replicates that of a parliament, where the people's representatives, rather than all voter referendums, resolve the day-to-day issues of government.
Taff
I believe that a non exclusive, voluntarily formed, group of owners within an RA/OG could never have this power irrespective of whether it was properly constituted and registered. Thus, the aim of the RA/OG should be to ensure that the EUC is doing its job correctly and in accordance with the majority view, rather than replacing it. The main problem with the EUC is that its voting system is not seen to be democratic; however, its difficult to envisage a better system. After all it replicates that of a parliament, where the people's representatives, rather than all voter referendums, resolve the day-to-day issues of government.
Taff
Mar 7th 2010, 12:08 pm
#567
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Ruislip Middlesex
Posts: 57
Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC
PS Taff - you seem to know Mr Tipper. I dont at all. Please can you ask him, as treasurer, to ensure that the EUC 2009 official minutes include our debts and accounts from 2009. We are obligated to pay these debts, through the EUC and I believe its a requirement from the board that they tell us what they are!!!. Also they should tell us how much money they have received. Again as we pay I believe its an obligation they should honour. Even with their crazy accounts system, they should know by now!!!!! This transparency will allow us to determine for ourselves the numbers and make some analyses of our own.
I do know Steven Tipper but not very well. Its true that he is the treasurer of the EUC Board, and therefore I guess holds overall responsibility. However, its a little unfair to blame him for the the lack of information distribution of the EUC's finances. I suspect the real problem lies with the administrators (L&G). Poor Steven went to the original EUC meeting and insisted on getting himself on the board as he felt that otherwise there was no Brit involvement. His only aim was to try and look after our interests, and now he gets blamed for it. Anyway, I believe he intends to attent the meeting on the 25 March; I'm sure that the lack of transparency in the EUC finances will be discussed at that meeting.
Taff
Mar 7th 2010, 4:38 pm
#568
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,377
Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC
Hi, Yes we can, I hope you are able to attend the meeting, in order to learn what will be written in the constitution? That is if all people present at the meeting decide that is the way forward.
Hats off to those able to attend and who take an interest in the urbanization.
Help!! I feel I am drowning under the collecting voice of those wanting replacement of the EUC by the RA/OG. Please, please be careful and make sure that you are not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I seems to me that the EUC is a very useful and extremely powerful organization. It lays down the rules which enables a large urbanization to be effectively managed during the period between when its maintenance is provided by the developer, and the local authority taking over this responsibility. Not least of its attributes is that of ensuring that a minority do not have the power of blocking what is required by the majority. This includes providing the legal power to force all owners to pay their contribution regardless of whether they agree with how the money is being used, provided that was agreed by the majority (subject to certain limitations).
I believe that a non exclusive, voluntarily formed, group of owners within an RA/OG could never have this power irrespective of whether it was properly constituted and registered. Thus, the aim of the RA/OG should be to ensure that the EUC is doing its job correctly and in accordance with the majority view, rather than replacing it. The main problem with the EUC is that its voting system is not seen to be democratic; however, its difficult to envisage a better system. After all it replicates that of a parliament, where the people's representatives, rather than all voter referendums, resolve the day-to-day issues of government.
Taff
I believe that a non exclusive, voluntarily formed, group of owners within an RA/OG could never have this power irrespective of whether it was properly constituted and registered. Thus, the aim of the RA/OG should be to ensure that the EUC is doing its job correctly and in accordance with the majority view, rather than replacing it. The main problem with the EUC is that its voting system is not seen to be democratic; however, its difficult to envisage a better system. After all it replicates that of a parliament, where the people's representatives, rather than all voter referendums, resolve the day-to-day issues of government.
Taff
The lifesaver is the democratic "taxation with representation", whichever form it takes.
Mar 7th 2010, 8:01 pm
#569
BE Positive
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,980
Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC
Help!! I feel I am drowning under the collecting voice of those wanting replacement of the EUC by the RA/OG. Please, please be careful and make sure that you are not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I seems to me that the EUC is a very useful and extremely powerful organization. It lays down the rules which enables a large urbanization to be effectively managed during the period between when its maintenance is provided by the developer, and the local authority taking over this responsibility. Not least of its attributes is that of ensuring that a minority do not have the power of blocking what is required by the majority. This includes providing the legal power to force all owners to pay their contribution regardless of whether they agree with how the money is being used, provided that was agreed by the majority (subject to certain limitations).
I believe that a non exclusive, voluntarily formed, group of owners within an RA/OG could never have this power irrespective of whether it was properly constituted and registered. Thus, the aim of the RA/OG should be to ensure that the EUC is doing its job correctly and in accordance with the majority view, rather than replacing it. The main problem with the EUC is that its voting system is not seen to be democratic; however, its difficult to envisage a better system. After all it replicates that of a parliament, where the people's representatives, rather than all voter referendums, resolve the day-to-day issues of government.
Taff
I believe that a non exclusive, voluntarily formed, group of owners within an RA/OG could never have this power irrespective of whether it was properly constituted and registered. Thus, the aim of the RA/OG should be to ensure that the EUC is doing its job correctly and in accordance with the majority view, rather than replacing it. The main problem with the EUC is that its voting system is not seen to be democratic; however, its difficult to envisage a better system. After all it replicates that of a parliament, where the people's representatives, rather than all voter referendums, resolve the day-to-day issues of government.
Taff
I wanted to make it clear that there is no block vote and presidents of IC/Communities have no special powers in an association. Also that, from experience, associations do in fact have legal powers as well, as envisaged by Canela's example.
We may disagree on whether the assoscs should have the power - but we are all on the same side .. re improving CE
RE Mr Tipper - he sent out unofficial minutes publically - and he is the 'finance guy'! All I was asking is that he ensures that the accounts are in the official minutes. Sure he threw his hat in, to join the board, but as a board member surely we have the right to ask him, the treasurer - in advance - to give us theproper financial info. After all I think they are obligated to do so. If not whats the point of taking a position of responsibility, if we cant request this? I understand if you dont want to do it - I only suggested it as you seem to know him... no pressure intended at all.
Sorry you feel that you are 'drowning'....
Thanks
Jon
Mar 8th 2010, 4:48 pm
#570
Forum Regular
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 245
Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC
Hello everyone,
I've been several days without reading the forum. John has said that EUC Canela has been dissolved. Why?. I said that I don´t know anything of Isla Canela.
Regarding the controversy of whether the Association may have "rights" by the delegation of the votes of the Communities and Intercommuties, I think that Taff is right. However, I am willing to hear opinions.
What pressure will make the Association if you have no bargaining power?. What functions will play the Association?
If the Association, by vote of his members want to take concrete action, for example, ask the EUC to press the Town Hall to execute guarantiees, How will it perform its functions if it has no "power"?.
I have many doubts...
I've been several days without reading the forum. John has said that EUC Canela has been dissolved. Why?. I said that I don´t know anything of Isla Canela.
Regarding the controversy of whether the Association may have "rights" by the delegation of the votes of the Communities and Intercommuties, I think that Taff is right. However, I am willing to hear opinions.
What pressure will make the Association if you have no bargaining power?. What functions will play the Association?
If the Association, by vote of his members want to take concrete action, for example, ask the EUC to press the Town Hall to execute guarantiees, How will it perform its functions if it has no "power"?.
I have many doubts...