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Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC

Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC

Old Mar 2nd 2010, 7:32 pm
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Default Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC

Originally Posted by CAROL TAFF View Post
John and Kath's intention in calling it the Residents Association was to allow inclusion of long term renters as well as all owners irrespective of whether or not they are classed as resident in Spain for tax purposes. We need as many owners as possible in the association and if than means changing its name then so be it.

We also need unification of the RA and OA. To this end, we need Arthur to attend the meeting on 25 March. I ask anybody who knows Arthur to try and persuade him to do so.

Steven Tipper does know about the meeting as it was from him that I first heard about if. I feel very confident that he will be there. Furthermore, I'm sure that he holds no bad feelings at all towards the RA and is very much on our side. We need him, if only for the block votes he has in his pocket as the Vista Esuri President.

Taff
In my opinion, the long term renters should not belong to an association that protects the interests of a group of people who are own a house in EC. I think that should belong is the owner, not the tenant. If the owner wants, he can tell his renter to represent him.

It is not possible to equate the interests of renters with a plot owner or a developer.

I agree with CAROL TAFF:

We need as many owners as possible in the association and if than means changing its name then so be it.

We also need unification of the RA and OA. To this end, we need Arthur to attend the meeting on 25 March. I ask anybody who knows Arthur to try and persuade him to do so
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Old Mar 2nd 2010, 7:51 pm
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Default Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC

Originally Posted by CAROL TAFF View Post
John and Kath's intention in calling it the Residents Association was to allow inclusion of long term renters as well as all owners irrespective of whether or not they are classed as resident in Spain for tax purposes. We need as many owners as possible in the association and if than means changing its name then so be it.

We also need unification of the RA and OA. To this end, we need Arthur to attend the meeting on 25 March. I ask anybody who knows Arthur to try and persuade him to do so.

Steven Tipper does know about the meeting as it was from him that I first heard about if. I feel very confident that he will be there. Furthermore, I'm sure that he holds no bad feelings at all towards the RA and is very much on our side. We need him, if only for the block votes he has in his pocket as the Vista Esuri President.

Taff
Hi Taff

Aaah Ive learned something, I had no idea that J+K had named the 'R'A - so I guess they are heavily involved. I thought that John was only updating us sometime way in the past. Thats good news for us, if so.

However I didnt realise that long term renters had also a vote... does that mean the renter AND the owner both have a vote on ONE place?

My worry about trying to insist or force the 'unification' of the 2, is that at the moment the people organising each one may not want to feel pressurised by people not attending. Perhaps they want to run it their way, or have the chance to discuss it amongst themselves - and this may cause some tension. As long as they know the feelings of the non-attendees that will hopefully. do. The RA is having its first meeting to discuss forming a legal assosc (they have met before but not to form a legal body)... and the OA is yet to have their 1st meeting. I think both groups understand the wishes and ideas in this early stage.

Good news about Mr Tipper not holding bad feelings... we need him positive, if he is OK as you say, as he has knowledge as well as votes... How he will use his block vote, though, if we decide something against the EUC, I dont know. Divided loyalties are often difficult for everybody, each 'side' as well as the person involved in the middle

Thanks for the information
Jon

Last edited by Jon-Bxl; Mar 2nd 2010 at 8:04 pm.
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Old Mar 3rd 2010, 11:18 am
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Default Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC

Hi everyone,

I wonder: Would not you had paid the bills to the EUC?.

I have read in this thread that many of you had paid the bills to the EUC. However, I am holding the accounts to date of 31 December 2009. The document states that ONLY 3 MEMBERS HAVE PAID: vivienda urb. Vista Esury bloque 2 (85.99 €), plot R19.8 (270.75 €) and plot R20.42 (313.50€).

Strange???

Last edited by spanish_lawyer; Mar 3rd 2010 at 11:38 am.
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Old Mar 3rd 2010, 12:07 pm
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Default Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC

Sorry,
I have paid too. Rago 2

I am so silly....
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Old Mar 3rd 2010, 1:03 pm
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Default Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC

Originally Posted by Paco View Post
Sorry,
I have paid too. Rago 2

I am so silly....
Looks like the mayor has new shoes.
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Old Mar 3rd 2010, 2:00 pm
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Default Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC

Originally Posted by Paco View Post
Sorry,
I have paid too. Rago 2

I am so silly....
Paco,

What is the date you paid for?.

Are you Spanish?.
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Old Mar 3rd 2010, 4:06 pm
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Default Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC

¡Hola S_L!
I understood this to mean that those who perhaps paid the EUC fee directly to the Gestion Tributaria (in early December 2009) would have had their fees counted on the 31 December 2009 budget. The 3 fees total just over 670.-euros, and this sum is mentioned in the unofficial minutes of the February 2010 AGM EUC CE, along with an explanation of why other monies are not listed.
How long would it take the Gestion Tributaria to forward monies to the administrators?

Salu2
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Old Mar 3rd 2010, 4:10 pm
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Default Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC

Originally Posted by spanish_lawyer View Post
Hi everyone,

I wonder: Would not you had paid the bills to the EUC?.

I have read in this thread that many of you had paid the bills to the EUC. However, I am holding the accounts to date of 31 December 2009. The document states that ONLY 3 MEMBERS HAVE PAID: vivienda urb. Vista Esury bloque 2 (85.99 €), plot R19.8 (270.75 €) and plot R20.42 (313.50€).

Strange???
Hi I will bullet for ease:
  • Yes we knew these figures, at the EUC meeting - they are very strange. It seems like they havent got an up to date view of the accounts as I paid before 2 December. How they can be so ill informed - I dont know...
  • I have asked L+G for the 2009 Accounts - amount owed, amount received etc. This will be the money we owe from 09 (to add to the 10 budget). No answer yet from them.
  • [*]

Finally I want to correct comething in my previous post... e.g Mr Tipper/NOBODY has a BLOCK VOTE. NOBODY eg a community president, has extra power in the associations - thats the point of the association - something new - for the owners/residents. So he does not come with a block vote... Yes he like anybody can represent many residents... BUT lets say he represents 47 residents .... he will need 47 letters of proxy to vote in an association. Just like I would if I represented 47 people - I'd need 47 individual letters.

Regards
Jon

PS Ive also asked if MF have paid ALL their bills - as opposed to some of them. No answer as yet.

Last edited by Jon-Bxl; Mar 3rd 2010 at 4:15 pm.
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Old Mar 3rd 2010, 5:20 pm
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Default Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl View Post
Hi Taff

Aaah Ive learned something, I had no idea that J+K had named the 'R'A - so I guess they are heavily involved. I thought that John was only updating us sometime way in the past. Thats good news for us, if so.

However I didnt realise that long term renters had also a vote... does that mean the renter AND the owner both have a vote on ONE place?

My worry about trying to insist or force the 'unification' of the 2, is that at the moment the people organising each one may not want to feel pressurised by people not attending. Perhaps they want to run it their way, or have the chance to discuss it amongst themselves - and this may cause some tension. As long as they know the feelings of the non-attendees that will hopefully. do. The RA is having its first meeting to discuss forming a legal assosc (they have met before but not to form a legal body)... and the OA is yet to have their 1st meeting. I think both groups understand the wishes and ideas in this early stage.

Good news about Mr Tipper not holding bad feelings... we need him positive, if he is OK as you say, as he has knowledge as well as votes... How he will use his block vote, though, if we decide something against the EUC, I dont know. Divided loyalties are often difficult for everybody, each 'side' as well as the person involved in the middle

Thanks for the information
Jon
Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl View Post
...

Finally I want to correct comething in my previous post... e.g Mr Tipper/NOBODY has a BLOCK VOTE. NOBODY eg a community president, has extra power in the associations - thats the point of the association - something new - for the owners/residents. So he does not come with a block vote... Yes he like anybody can represent many residents... BUT lets say he represents 47 residents .... he will need 47 letters of proxy to vote in an association. Just like I would if I represented 47 people - I'd need 47 individual letters.

...
Hi Jon,
I hope you don't mind that I've snipped your quotes. It's just to save on space.

Re: the name CE Residents' Group was mentioned by J&K in their post #5 in reply to Arthur's thread here: http://britishexpats.com/forum/showp...19&postcount=1

I think it is worth rereading Arthur's first post, because it states some objectives and aims necessary (as S_L kindly has written) when forming any "cooperative assembly", Owners' Group, or Residents' Association - so many names! The other group of people may have been busy forming similar objectives; however, I haven't heard. That does not mean I am not interested. Sadly, I too am not able to attend the meeting on the 25th March. I would be grateful for any information soon after the event.

May I make a note that it is APPEARS, from the few people who write/read this thread on this forum, that the similar sounding names are confusing! What would happen when it came to registering the name (as I assume the group must do) with the Registro de asociaciones? Would it accept 2 names so similar? Perhaps this is an argument in favour of forming one group? Food for thought.

Re: long term renters. Do they pay IBI?EUC fee? Or do their landlords (ie. owners)? Do MF or the banks have any long term renters in their properties? I accept that they might be interested in their neighbourhood, but ultimately, the owner has the vote, or the power to extend proxy.
In answer to S_L's question about costs in running a residents' group, I think it needs to be done voluntarily, initially. I can't see many owners or renters paying RA fees on top of the rest (assuming the EUC continues).

Re: feeling presurrised by people not attending.
Well, how many people can be in two places at one time? (Answer: women) How about a Skype linkup?
Seriously, if it weren't for this forum and thread, how and with whomever else would I have had the opportunity to discuss the many issues of CE?
Roll on the time soon when a saintly IT person sets up the first blog or website that contains up to date, official information. Speaking of which, a secure site (like the Rincón del golf website, or the Nuevo Portil owners) would seem to be ideal (less chance of spam/hackers/ghostly goblins - I don't know what they're called...) Can't comment further (as I am not a member of either). Just a thought.

Lastly, re: block votes. Thanks for this info Jon. Is it official? I agree with it, but wonder if it needs to be written in the estatutos/constitution?

I'll return in a few hours to read (hopefully) your comments.

Hasta luego,
Carol
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Old Mar 3rd 2010, 5:25 pm
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Default Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC

Oh yes, BTW, did I forget to say STAY FOCUSED ON THE ISSUE OF THE BANK GUARANTEE"?
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Old Mar 4th 2010, 7:04 am
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Default Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC

Originally Posted by Carol&John View Post
Hi Jon,
I hope you don't mind that I've snipped your quotes. It's just to save on space.

Re: the name CE Residents' Group was mentioned by J&K in their post #5 in reply to Arthur's thread here: http://britishexpats.com/forum/showp...19&postcount=1

I think it is worth rereading Arthur's first post, because it states some objectives and aims necessary (as S_L kindly has written) when forming any "cooperative assembly", Owners' Group, or Residents' Association - so many names! The other group of people may have been busy forming similar objectives; however, I haven't heard. That does not mean I am not interested. Sadly, I too am not able to attend the meeting on the 25th March. I would be grateful for any information soon after the event.

May I make a note that it is APPEARS, from the few people who write/read this thread on this forum, that the similar sounding names are confusing! What would happen when it came to registering the name (as I assume the group must do) with the Registro de asociaciones? Would it accept 2 names so similar? Perhaps this is an argument in favour of forming one group? Food for thought.

Re: long term renters. Do they pay IBI?EUC fee? Or do their landlords (ie. owners)? Do MF or the banks have any long term renters in their properties? I accept that they might be interested in their neighbourhood, but ultimately, the owner has the vote, or the power to extend proxy.
In answer to S_L's question about costs in running a residents' group, I think it needs to be done voluntarily, initially. I can't see many owners or renters paying RA fees on top of the rest (assuming the EUC continues).

Re: feeling presurrised by people not attending.
Well, how many people can be in two places at one time? (Answer: women) How about a Skype linkup?
Seriously, if it weren't for this forum and thread, how and with whomever else would I have had the opportunity to discuss the many issues of CE?
Roll on the time soon when a saintly IT person sets up the first blog or website that contains up to date, official information. Speaking of which, a secure site (like the Rincón del golf website, or the Nuevo Portil owners) would seem to be ideal (less chance of spam/hackers/ghostly goblins - I don't know what they're called...) Can't comment further (as I am not a member of either). Just a thought.

Lastly, re: block votes. Thanks for this info Jon. Is it official? I agree with it, but wonder if it needs to be written in the estatutos/constitution?

I'll return in a few hours to read (hopefully) your comments.

Hasta luego,
Carol

Hi Carol et al- thanks for taking the time for the snippets. Gives me a chance to review things and my previous posts. Note these are all my personal opinions - I am not a sage, nor will I be found sitting on a rock somewhere near the 19th hole wearing a loincloth doling out advice And if you see me at the 19th DONT kick me, the bar will collapse, as I will, more likely, be propping it up

Firstly as you say, there are a just few separate people/individuals who post on this thread. There are more individuals who posts on other threads in the 'Ayamonte club'. I don't want to be part of a small 'knitting circle' of like minded people if in the end there isn't a high level of interest. That's why I am pleased about the Associations:

PRIORITY, as I've mentioned to death. First priority: A concerted effort to get the BANK GUARANTEES. Of which I will do whatever required of us.

The Associations OA and RA:
  • Its hardly surprising that they have come to being: The EUC has been awful: Poor communications; conflict of interest allegations in the National press; No attempt to stem fears that they are self serving or self interested group etc etc. I could go on but we all know the score
  • Ideally we should have 1 Assosc. But we need to be careful that we don't overdo the implied criticism of them being 2 organisations. These are good people coming together to form a group to improve it for all. Sounds like 2 initiatives have come into being as an aftermath to EUC frustrations. The RA have met before but now want to formalise and the OA is new. Both are talking about setting up blog sites and the like.
  • Don't forget that they, OA and RA, HAVENT had their first meetings yet (to formalise an organisation). There is an opportunity to discuss everything at these meetings. Lets not get hung up on names at this early stage - they will sort it out.
  • Likewise they can go to each others meetings (I hope) and discuss either forming 1 group or working together in 2. I think the people involved with the fledgling associations (OA+RA) - even if they dont use this forum - are fully aware of the issues about multi-assoscs, names etc. Lets have confidence in them.
  • Neither OA. RA are using/posting on this forum for 'official business'. Arthur (OA) opened a thread just to publicise the OA and get support. The RA meeting has been presented by 2 posters to date the meeting and invite attendance. But we are waiting for more RA information - obviously to come after the 25th. Also, again, both have mentioned that they will have a blog site. This forum topic will naturally shut down when the IT is in place.
  • 1) John+Kath (J+K) asked the OA to consider changing its name. 2) J+K also posted information about the RA meeting on 25/3. Its 2 separate things. Then when there was a big reaction about 2 groups. J+K said 'dont shoot the messenger'. Carol Taff recently said that J+K were involved in choosing the name for the RA. This would imply that J+K are involved in the RA - if so it is good news as everybody respects them. I'm not sure, however, what their actual level of involvement is with the RA though (it's just just my conjecture based on Taff's post)
  • Renters: I dont know if they have voting rights based on IBI payments etc, I dont even know if they will pay these or the owners will. But I prefer an association of people who own properties here. I am open to discussion though
  • Block votes: I am not a lawyer but am convinced that the communities and intercommunities will have nothing to do with the Assoscs. Mutually exclusive ... no default block votes. The only way to get a sort of block vote - is to arrive at the meeting with a 'block' of individual letters giving proxy. In the highly improbable event that there is a link - I am not interested. Again I am sure this will not be the case.
  • This forum is not the place to get participation in major initiatives. This comes from the Assocs. So I am waiting with great interest to see what comes of them. I personally, will want to see that we make a concerted effort for the bank guarantees. If not I will be personally disappointed, and will not want to get on their blogs if its just another discussion forum like this one. In which case I personally will have to accept that the EUC have 'won', they really have it sewn up and are in control and I cant effectively do anything about them and their ways. Except: Pay up and shut up. or Not pay and appeal and see what happens. Or not pay and take it to court.

I am very happy that CE people are organising and am positive about the potential of this - and hope WE can get involved and make it a success.

If you have feedback and ideas about the Associations - then I suggest, if you havent already, GET INVOLVED: Join the OA + give feedback... and... Also feedback to the posters about the RA meeting. Then we (non-attendees) all wait to see what happens on the OA meet 25th and if necessary join them. This forum is not the place to make change, when the plans are already in place for the OA and RA.... Remember they are not using the forum and will create their own separate communications (blogs etc).

As I say above I am convinced that 1) They are in the know 2) They are NOT 2 warring tribes 3) Will be interested in each others ideas 4) Are genuine people concerned with the improvement and proper management of CE.

Thats it - I think Ive had my say.... time to let, hopefully 'the good times roll'

Jon

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Old Mar 4th 2010, 2:08 pm
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Default Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC

Hello everyone!

Have been following this thread with great interest for a while now. We have also paid our EUC bill (amounting to 136.20 Euros) to Lopez y Gutierrez Consulting in Ayamonte who paid the bill for us and set up a direct debit from our Spanish bank for future payments. However, not sure if this is the right thing to do, so will keep reading this thread before making up our minds for future payments (if any!).

Thanks for all the info and advice given which is much appreciated and, I'm sure, is read by a lot more people than you think, Jon!

Best wishes,

Barb
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Old Mar 4th 2010, 2:33 pm
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Default Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC

Thanks for the replies.

Carol, the Servicio de Gestión Tributaria is responsible for managing the collection of contributions from the EUC. Therefore, if the fee payment must be made directly to that body.

I've never had a bad opinion about the work of LGC. However, I do not understand how you can make a payment in October and in February (after 4 months) payment is not counted. I do not understand that Barb (welcome) has directly paid to LGC and do not include the payment as income on the EUC. Nor I can understand how to present in February a few accounts in late December that do not reflect the real state.

If I did not read in this thread that some people have paid, I think that really only three people have done.
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Old Mar 4th 2010, 2:39 pm
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Default Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC

Originally Posted by Jon-Bxl View Post

(...)


I have asked L+G for the 2009 Accounts - amount owed, amount received etc. This will be the money we owe from 09 (to add to the 10 budget). No answer yet from them.

(...)

PS Ive also asked if MF have paid ALL their bills - as opposed to some of them. No answer as yet.
Jon, please, could you share with us this information when you have an answer?. Thank you.
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Old Mar 4th 2010, 2:42 pm
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Default Re: Costa Esuri - Ayamonte - EUC

This is a bit worrying! However, we do have a receipt issued by Servicio de Gestion Tributaria, Oficina de Ayamonte dated 15 December 2009 so hopefully the payment's gone to the right place!
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