Ruby Murray

Oh, thanks Jules Back home for me is east of Manchester, an old milling town called Hyde, hopefully a brief stay at my folks until I find an affordable place for me and my daughter to rent....but that is not on the agenda until late Spring as I want to be here for my son to turn 18.

BTW, I think I have a good idea who you're referring to...I have read some of your posts about the GTA and we all know the residents that live there, so it's ok

Jules Europe

I am sure there will be no shortage of good Indian restaurants there. We have Indian reatuarants here in Spain but nowhere near as good as in the UK, its actually what I miss most about the UK

Again my comments about GTA were not only based on my observations of visiting there but also from two very good Canadian friends of mine as in Canadians born and bred there, that I usually speak to on msn every week. So the comments from the Canadian bashers just didn`t add up All I ever used to get from them, was they are Canadians and therefore clueless and don`t know what they are talking about etc I think their attitude is called Pack logic.

ezzie

Woke this morning to a frosty wonderland. Took lots of photos and stood there for ages taking in the stunning beauty of the surrounding fields and woodlands. With everything draped in white, silver and greys, the red and orange brickwork of the farmhouse stood out more than ever.

After sorting the horse out we set off to the Lichfield area where we were meeting family for lunch with dh's cousin. We had a bit of a shock as we drove over the hill to where we could look down on the outskirts of Brum; hovering above it was a solid mantle of puke-coloured pollution. A temperature inversion had forced a layer of undispersed soot and fumes to settle over the city. It reminded us just what an overpopulated country Britain is. Traffic was sticky to say the least for a Sunday morning; just over 50kms took 1.20hrs!

Chatting to dh's cousin was interesting. She was a chef till she had children and now teaches cooking at a college. Some classes she takes consist of a group of around 16 kids made up of the most badly behaved school kids from various schools together with a group from a couple of special schools for behaviour problems. An interesting group and she really worries about the lack of training they've had in dealing with them and the incredibly short fuses these kids seem to have. They have to keep their chefs whites at the college as if they went home these kids parents sell them on ebay.

She also spoke of one lad from a 'normal' cooking class at the college - they'd been giving him a hard time due to him not making it in on time. He had an accident on his bike and only through this did they actually find out a bit about him - he lives with his 30 stone dad, who's permanantly pissed. This 17 yr old lad has 7 younger brothers and sisters and the reason he's so tired and always late to class is that he's up till past 1am looking after them all. They only found this out when the ambulance officers wanted to cut his jeans off to further examine him and he begged them not to because they were his only pair.

She's the first to admit that they live in a lovely semi-rural 'bubble'. The grey area between these two groups seems to be widening and the number living 'on the edge' is burgeoning. I'm the first to admit I don't know what the answer is, other than more support services and I can't see the gov't spending more on these with a recession in full swing.

Haven't the energy or volition to discuss this - just passing on the events of the day.

On the puppy front - 5 golden labs born this afternoon. 4 boys, 1 girl. We got back just in time to see the last one being born.

DH leaves for Oz tomorrow - kids upset but not as much as dh.

Jules Europe

Would kids really sell chefs overalls on ebay? As for the 30 stone dad who`s always pissed with the football team of children, where the eldest cares for the rest until the early hours This sounds more like India than the UK!!! Has it really got that bad there? The pollution bumble as well that hangs over Brum By the way keep it up I for one am totally engrossed with your observations on everyday life in the UK

dingbat

I feel so rejected.... You know how much I post to defend all that is Canadian. As if I would turn my cyber back on a fellow inmate....

northernbird

Blimey, what a furore over the use of the word pack. I just meant the majority really, the usual country of destination haters.

ezzie

The kids didn't sell them, the kids' parents did. It became so commonplace that they had to do something about it. As for the kid caring for younger siblings, well, I'm sure you could find examples of this in any country. Hearing stories from this direct from the horses mouth just bring it home as to how massive the problem is. We noticed the pollution haze the last time we were here around Heathrow too, mind you, we used to see a bit of a haze over Sydney when we'd drive back from Gosford....never anywhere near as bad as what we saw today.

Jules Europe

I don`t doubt that these problems exist in a lot of 1st world countries and yes, maybe a lot of people are not aware of kids caring for younger siblings etc. I imagine that it is far more common place than many people would like to admit. By the way, I was laughing not at the predicament of these people etc but in your ability to write your diary entries in a somewhat humourous manner. Keep it up And since you have had people support your position, its seems "The Pack" has slunk back into the shadows licking its wounds, but I am sure they`ll be back soon enough.

Grayling

So what caused Sydney harbour to become one of the most polluted waterways in the world?...was that overpopulation as well?

Never any smog in Australian cities?

sans

I'm Howling

ezzie

Thanks Jules - I usually try for a bit of humour but far too knackered tonight after staying up all last night to watch a dog pant a lot, make several beds and 'not' give birth. The things we do!

Just watching a program on South Africa...crikey, put's everything into perspective doesn't it?

Jules Europe

Reading on the South African forum is enough to put most peoples lives into perspective..............It reads like a horror story By the way there are quite a few South Africans here in Spain (Choose it for the weather) and some of the stories they tell...........

Saying that, after working for a couple of years in South America thats also enough to put a lot of things into perspective as well.

sel

Hi Ezzie

I lived in Alvechurch many years and grew up in the outskirts of Brum (Shirley). In Alvechurch I saw alot of what you have been saying about the kids regarding smoking and boozing etc. I understand that this is something that has always been, yes did it myself as a teen BUT at the age when you expected it ! the kids nowadays are getting younger and younger. 11 year olds and upwards are hanging out down at the local co-op getting themselves into trouble on a regular basis, peer pressure with the older kids egging on the younger ones to shoplift etc. Underage drinking was happening but more so youngsters were hanging around outside the pub waiting for mom and dad to come out after their friday night binge and this was a NICE village.

The kids seemed to have so much angst and the cheek they would give you if you told them to go home cos mom was looking for them etc was amazing. Alot of the kids I had known since they were babies and it was like they had turned into demons overnight. I totally put it down to these kids thinking that they HAVE to act like this to be popular amongst their peers and if they dont hang out on the street (and believe me when I say that some of them would climb out their bedroom window to get out) they get picked on relentlessly.

We seem to have given to much over to the kids so that parents that do care are powerless to cope. They have a defiance in them that is a sign of the times. I know it happens in oz but it doesnt seem to be at such a young age and the kids in rural oz where we are seem to still have a respect which is totally lacking in alot of the kids in Alvechurch AND Bromsgrove (the Alvechurch kids senior school is based there and alot from Bromsgrove would hang out with mates in the village).

I did love living in Alvechurch. It was perfect for getting to my horse, kids school was lovely, great friends but from what I saw I was worried for my kids having to face all that crap to "try and fit in" and it is reality as you have seen ... but I do still love Brum warts an all but we like it where we are at the moment more and hopefully my kids will be kids for that bit longer.

Good luck Ezzie, whatever you and your family decide !!!

ezzie

...and one just still born unfortunately.
Just spent last 30 mins working on her, just in case. A perfect little girl had she survived. The Professor had said there were only 5 pups. Just shows even 'experts' can be wrong sometimes. Wish we'd known she was there, we could have got the vet in.

Watt Dabney

I have been following this thread with interest, mostly because my home town is Kidderminster which is near where ezzie is and also cause I'm just plain nosey!!!

Its a shame a bit of a bun fight has ensued on this thread and wonder if maybe because people are trying so hard to convince themselves that either Uk or Oz is better than the other that maybe you are missing another possible reason for the differences in expats children and the resident children of the country in which you reside.

We have been away from the Uk for 7yrs, 6 of those yrs in NZ and 1 yr in Oz. Our children were 7 & 4 when we 1st moved, we have no family outside the Uk and we have never been back. We have however encountered many fresh of the boat and holidaying UK kids, and I have noticed a difference, just as I have noticed some difference with native Oz and NZ kids, and I have a sort of theory which I feel really applies to families who emigrate with kids under 10.

When you move countries you move away from everything you know, people, areas, places. You don't realise how much of a gut instinct you have about your hometown, which is often based on generations of knowledge that you either have yourself or you can tap into from reliable sources such as family and friends.You know which streets/families are rough etc which gives you the reasurance to loosen the reigns and take some risks with your kids freedoms when growing up.
When you emigrate you know noone you know nothing of their history, the areas history, the schools history. Requests from your children for playdates and sleepovers are met with much more caution as you know nothing of the families you are entrusting your children to. Family childcare is no longer available so its do it yourself or commercial care and leaving your kids with a babysitter to go out is a rare occasion and only when you are sure you have found one you can trust. Also every free weekend is spent exploring your new evironment as a family, so bar school, your kids spend most of their time with parents and siblings, becoming a very close knit unit.
I feel that esp but not exclusivley kids that migrate before 10yrs become very family oriented and the process of friend making for them often involves input from their parents in trying to guide them to find good friends. Over time they get quite good at quickly identifying both the good and the bad element in their school and often gravitate to the good kids as they relate better to them. I have certainly seen this in my son who is on his 3rd school in 2 new countries. There have been times when he has encountered holidaying Uk kids and he was quite shocked at their antics and disregard for their parents rules and guidance.

So what I am trying to say if you can get the gist of my ramblings is that I reckon its not Oz or UK kids that are overtly bad/good, but I do think kids who migrated young do seem more family oriented and concious of the effect actions/behaviours can have on the family unit and are less willing to rock the family boat as this is their main sense of security and belonging.

You may all think this is twaddle, but its a different angle on the situation at least.