ATM's.......
Aug 19th 2002, 9:40 am
#1366
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ATM's.......
[email protected] (Mika) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]. com>...
> [email protected] (amp_spamfree) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]. com>...
> > [email protected] (Hatunen) wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
> > And here it is - the ultimate "Bayerische" Schweinschnitzel Wiener Art" - not the
> > dried out veal, but real pork. Now that is authentic.
> >
> Objection Yeronner. If a restaurant has Wienerschnitzel on their menu, the
> implication is that it is veal, and that's no different in Bavaria. If it isn't
> veal, they are required 'by law' to state that it is "Wienerschnitzel vom Schwein".
> Or even "Wienerschnitzel von der Pute", in which case there's no chance in hell
> that I'll order it. Blame it on the BSE scare. Even the Turks sell turkey doener
> these days (10% turkey, 90% sawdust).
> M
Let's take this one step further - Mika, where did chicken fried steak originate?
Don't ask me, ask Terry Thompson-Anderson, executive chef of Maner Lake Lodge just
outside West Columbia, Tx. (Try the Austin Chronicle or Texas Monthly for a review
of Texas on a Plate - her new cookbook).
So, Wienerschnitzel is German and can be made with pork and then called
Scweinschnitzel Wiener Art. Austin Texas is the center of Texas' rich German
tradition, and low and behold, the infamous Chicken fried steak is a close relative
of the schnitzel...interesting. And not just my opinions - actual facts backed up by
easily verifiable evidence. Amazing.
When schnitzel is served with brown gravy its called jagerschnitzel, when it is
served with not
Or, if you believe some of the others, that would make Wienerwald a Viennese forest
and not a German baked chicken take away?
amp
news:<[email protected]. com>...
> [email protected] (amp_spamfree) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]. com>...
> > [email protected] (Hatunen) wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
> > And here it is - the ultimate "Bayerische" Schweinschnitzel Wiener Art" - not the
> > dried out veal, but real pork. Now that is authentic.
> >
> Objection Yeronner. If a restaurant has Wienerschnitzel on their menu, the
> implication is that it is veal, and that's no different in Bavaria. If it isn't
> veal, they are required 'by law' to state that it is "Wienerschnitzel vom Schwein".
> Or even "Wienerschnitzel von der Pute", in which case there's no chance in hell
> that I'll order it. Blame it on the BSE scare. Even the Turks sell turkey doener
> these days (10% turkey, 90% sawdust).
> M
Let's take this one step further - Mika, where did chicken fried steak originate?
Don't ask me, ask Terry Thompson-Anderson, executive chef of Maner Lake Lodge just
outside West Columbia, Tx. (Try the Austin Chronicle or Texas Monthly for a review
of Texas on a Plate - her new cookbook).
So, Wienerschnitzel is German and can be made with pork and then called
Scweinschnitzel Wiener Art. Austin Texas is the center of Texas' rich German
tradition, and low and behold, the infamous Chicken fried steak is a close relative
of the schnitzel...interesting. And not just my opinions - actual facts backed up by
easily verifiable evidence. Amazing.
When schnitzel is served with brown gravy its called jagerschnitzel, when it is
served with not
Or, if you believe some of the others, that would make Wienerwald a Viennese forest
and not a German baked chicken take away?
amp
Aug 19th 2002, 2:14 pm
#1367
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ATM's.......
Vitaly Shmatikov wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, devil <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Ethnic food is not more valuable than Italian stuff *per se*. But it's nice to
>>> have variety: Thai yesterday, Italian today, Fredonian tomorrow. A place where
>>> one can get a variety of different foods is clearly superior to a place where
>>> it's ``a mix of French and Italian influences'' day after day, even assuming
>>> that this mix is good (which it often isn't).
>>I rest my case.
>>It's clear that you have no idea what top quality cooking is about.
> That might be so, but how on earth did you extract it from what I said above?
> I've eaten at my share of 3- (Lucas-Carton, Pierre Gagnaire, French Laundry, Le
> Bernardin), 2- (Jamin - albeit in the post-Robuchon era, Le Bec Fin, Nanao, about
> a couple dozen others) and 1-star places. Most were excellent, some were the
> best gastronomic experiences of my life. But I doubt I'd want to eat at any of
> them every day of the week. There is more to food than stuffed squirrel tails
> with amandes torrefiees. Nothing wrong with a good curry or a bowl of lagman or
> a taco.
>>(And yes, there is top quality stuff. But it is not going to be Thai or Chinese.
>>What you are talking about is your regular going on for food thing.)
> I *am* talking about the regular food thing. The top end is the same everywhere.
> Shell out $300, and you'll be eating truffle-studded this and that no matter
> where you are, in Moscow, Hong Kong or Oakhurst, Calif. But I imagine few people
> want to do this every day, and not even because of the price.
I rest my case.
> In article <[email protected]>, devil <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Ethnic food is not more valuable than Italian stuff *per se*. But it's nice to
>>> have variety: Thai yesterday, Italian today, Fredonian tomorrow. A place where
>>> one can get a variety of different foods is clearly superior to a place where
>>> it's ``a mix of French and Italian influences'' day after day, even assuming
>>> that this mix is good (which it often isn't).
>>I rest my case.
>>It's clear that you have no idea what top quality cooking is about.
> That might be so, but how on earth did you extract it from what I said above?
> I've eaten at my share of 3- (Lucas-Carton, Pierre Gagnaire, French Laundry, Le
> Bernardin), 2- (Jamin - albeit in the post-Robuchon era, Le Bec Fin, Nanao, about
> a couple dozen others) and 1-star places. Most were excellent, some were the
> best gastronomic experiences of my life. But I doubt I'd want to eat at any of
> them every day of the week. There is more to food than stuffed squirrel tails
> with amandes torrefiees. Nothing wrong with a good curry or a bowl of lagman or
> a taco.
>>(And yes, there is top quality stuff. But it is not going to be Thai or Chinese.
>>What you are talking about is your regular going on for food thing.)
> I *am* talking about the regular food thing. The top end is the same everywhere.
> Shell out $300, and you'll be eating truffle-studded this and that no matter
> where you are, in Moscow, Hong Kong or Oakhurst, Calif. But I imagine few people
> want to do this every day, and not even because of the price.
I rest my case.
Aug 19th 2002, 4:25 pm
#1368
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Giving up US citizenship
In article <[email protected] >, Icono Clast
<[email protected]> writes
>My primary concern about old birth-givers is the sociological and cultural
>differences (gap) between them. Of course there are some very empathetic parents who
>understand youth culture but the farther one is from that culture, the more
>difficult it is to understand and/or accept. T
The last thing the young want is for their pareuts to understand them and their
"culture."
They delight in parents' ignorance and hate parents who try to be "like friends."
That acceptance (parents as friends) comes much later in adult life.
Marie
--
[email protected]
<[email protected]> writes
>My primary concern about old birth-givers is the sociological and cultural
>differences (gap) between them. Of course there are some very empathetic parents who
>understand youth culture but the farther one is from that culture, the more
>difficult it is to understand and/or accept. T
The last thing the young want is for their pareuts to understand them and their
"culture."
They delight in parents' ignorance and hate parents who try to be "like friends."
That acceptance (parents as friends) comes much later in adult life.
Marie
--
[email protected]
Aug 19th 2002, 5:07 pm
#1369
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ATM's.......
On 19 Aug 2002 02:07:08 -0700, [email protected] (amp_spamfree) wrote:
>Because Europeans are not, as always, suckers for all things American. OK, blue
>jeans perhaps, but not Timex. Maybe Europeans are more discerning about quality
>than Americans?
You mean like all those Europeans eating at McDonalds in Paris, London, Stockholm, et
al? The Finns are so discerning they invented their own version of McDonalds, the
Hesburger (which is actually doing better business).
************ DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) ***********
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * ******* My typos are
intentional copyright traps ******
>Because Europeans are not, as always, suckers for all things American. OK, blue
>jeans perhaps, but not Timex. Maybe Europeans are more discerning about quality
>than Americans?
You mean like all those Europeans eating at McDonalds in Paris, London, Stockholm, et
al? The Finns are so discerning they invented their own version of McDonalds, the
Hesburger (which is actually doing better business).
************ DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) ***********
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * ******* My typos are
intentional copyright traps ******
Aug 19th 2002, 6:49 pm
#1370
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ATM's.......
Hatunen wrote:
> You mean like all those Europeans eating at McDonalds in Paris, London, Stockholm,
> et al? The Finns are so discerning they invented their own version of McDonalds,
> the Hesburger (which is actually doing better business).
Possibly it uses better ingredients? My quarrel with MacDonalds is that they
downgrade the American Hamburger into an inferior product - the "real thing" can be
quite delicious (but of course quality ingredients cost more).
> You mean like all those Europeans eating at McDonalds in Paris, London, Stockholm,
> et al? The Finns are so discerning they invented their own version of McDonalds,
> the Hesburger (which is actually doing better business).
Possibly it uses better ingredients? My quarrel with MacDonalds is that they
downgrade the American Hamburger into an inferior product - the "real thing" can be
quite delicious (but of course quality ingredients cost more).
Aug 19th 2002, 8:11 pm
#1371
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ATM's.......
On Mon, 19 Aug 2002 11:49:41 -0700, "Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Hatunen wrote:
>> You mean like all those Europeans eating at McDonalds in Paris, London, Stockholm,
>> et al? The Finns are so discerning they invented their own version of McDonalds,
>> the Hesburger (which is actually doing better business).
>Possibly it uses better ingredients?
I dunno. The taste isn't much better, althoughmy wife says she definitely likes the
hesburger better. But, of course, that admits that we might from time to time
actually eat at fast food bureger places.
>My quarrel with MacDonalds is that they downgrade the American Hamburger into an
>inferior product - the "real thing" can be quite delicious (but of course quality
>ingredients cost more).
You may not recall the early 1960s when the only Mcdonalds burger was the basic one
they still sell, but tehn it was $0.19.
************ DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) ***********
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * ******* My typos are
intentional copyright traps ******
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Hatunen wrote:
>> You mean like all those Europeans eating at McDonalds in Paris, London, Stockholm,
>> et al? The Finns are so discerning they invented their own version of McDonalds,
>> the Hesburger (which is actually doing better business).
>Possibly it uses better ingredients?
I dunno. The taste isn't much better, althoughmy wife says she definitely likes the
hesburger better. But, of course, that admits that we might from time to time
actually eat at fast food bureger places.
>My quarrel with MacDonalds is that they downgrade the American Hamburger into an
>inferior product - the "real thing" can be quite delicious (but of course quality
>ingredients cost more).
You may not recall the early 1960s when the only Mcdonalds burger was the basic one
they still sell, but tehn it was $0.19.
************ DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) ***********
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * ******* My typos are
intentional copyright traps ******
Aug 19th 2002, 11:00 pm
#1372
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ATM's.......
On Mon, 12 Aug 2002, Mika wrote:
> devil schrieb:
> >
> > But the typical definition of "hispanic" at least as used in the US is exactly
> > that, basically equivalent to "Latin" except Latin would include Italian and
> > perhaps French; expecting the word "Iberian" is just too much to ask. And
> > anyway, "Iberian" comes across as more geographic than cultural.
> The implication of 'hispanic' in the US is also 'non-white'. Clearly wrong for
> almost all Spanish.
Not so. The US census (and most forms inviting you to give your race) has the
category "White (non-Hispanic)," which implies that "White" may also be a subset of
"Hispanic."
> Mika
Take care
Jon
--
Jon Beasley-Murray Literature Program, Duke University
Spanish and Portuguese Studies, University of Manchester [email protected]
http://www.art.man.ac.uk/lacs/
> devil schrieb:
> >
> > But the typical definition of "hispanic" at least as used in the US is exactly
> > that, basically equivalent to "Latin" except Latin would include Italian and
> > perhaps French; expecting the word "Iberian" is just too much to ask. And
> > anyway, "Iberian" comes across as more geographic than cultural.
> The implication of 'hispanic' in the US is also 'non-white'. Clearly wrong for
> almost all Spanish.
Not so. The US census (and most forms inviting you to give your race) has the
category "White (non-Hispanic)," which implies that "White" may also be a subset of
"Hispanic."
> Mika
Take care
Jon
--
Jon Beasley-Murray Literature Program, Duke University
Spanish and Portuguese Studies, University of Manchester [email protected]
http://www.art.man.ac.uk/lacs/
Aug 19th 2002, 11:04 pm
#1373
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ATM's.......
On Mon, 12 Aug 2002, David Horne wrote:
> JBM <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Ach, the difference hits you in the face. And, for all intents and purposes,
> > there are two different pisco sours...
> Well, I've had two different kinds- doubt they're _the_ two different kinds though.
> Made by myself, with a packet of mix, or made by a Pervuvian, with a wisked egg.
A packet of mix?! ???!!!
Pisco, lime, sugar, ice, egg white, blended together, plus a bit of cinnamon on the
top. All you need.
> David
Take care
Jon
--
Jon Beasley-Murray Literature Program, Duke University
Spanish and Portuguese Studies, University of Manchester [email protected]
http://www.art.man.ac.uk/lacs/
> JBM <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Ach, the difference hits you in the face. And, for all intents and purposes,
> > there are two different pisco sours...
> Well, I've had two different kinds- doubt they're _the_ two different kinds though.
> Made by myself, with a packet of mix, or made by a Pervuvian, with a wisked egg.
A packet of mix?! ???!!!
Pisco, lime, sugar, ice, egg white, blended together, plus a bit of cinnamon on the
top. All you need.
> David
Take care
Jon
--
Jon Beasley-Murray Literature Program, Duke University
Spanish and Portuguese Studies, University of Manchester [email protected]
http://www.art.man.ac.uk/lacs/
Aug 19th 2002, 11:08 pm
#1374
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ATM's.......
On Mon, 12 Aug 2002, David Horne wrote:
> JBM <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Meanwhile, off topic I know, but I'm climbing into a plane tomorrow morning--off
> > to Scandinavia and Spitzbergen.
> Spitzbergen? I'm jealous. What on earth takes you there? Not Latino studies, I
> take it?
Indeed, no. Just back. It was fabulous. Trip report to come.
> > I've never been fully convinced by Scandinavian food, on the principle that black
> > bread and herring is good for one meal a day, but not all three. However, I'm
> > excited by the possibility of whale meat--perhaps even polar bear?--in
> > Longyearbyen. I'll report back.
> I have had whale meat, and I thought it was OK. I'm half norwegian, and I find some
> food there absolutely divine (good kj=F8ttkaker or raspeballe=
r
> for example) and others (steamed cod with boiled potatoes!) a bit humdrum. On the
> whole though- really tasty IMO. Sheep's Head? Really is very good! Hope you have
> some good food!
Good breakfasts. We were on a budget otherwise, so didn't splurge too much, but on
our last night in Longyearbyen had an "Arctic buffet" with whale, seal, reindeer,
etc. etc. I liked the slivers of raw whale and the reindeer heart best. Some of the
other things there I didn't understand the Norwegian for, and hesitated to ask. One
had a bit of shot in it. Also a very good roe of some variety--it was yellowish.
> David
Take care
Jon
--=20 Jon Beasley-Murray Literature Program, Duke University
Spanish and Portuguese Studies, University of Manchester [email protected]
http://www.art.man.ac.uk/lacs/
> JBM <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Meanwhile, off topic I know, but I'm climbing into a plane tomorrow morning--off
> > to Scandinavia and Spitzbergen.
> Spitzbergen? I'm jealous. What on earth takes you there? Not Latino studies, I
> take it?
Indeed, no. Just back. It was fabulous. Trip report to come.
> > I've never been fully convinced by Scandinavian food, on the principle that black
> > bread and herring is good for one meal a day, but not all three. However, I'm
> > excited by the possibility of whale meat--perhaps even polar bear?--in
> > Longyearbyen. I'll report back.
> I have had whale meat, and I thought it was OK. I'm half norwegian, and I find some
> food there absolutely divine (good kj=F8ttkaker or raspeballe=
r
> for example) and others (steamed cod with boiled potatoes!) a bit humdrum. On the
> whole though- really tasty IMO. Sheep's Head? Really is very good! Hope you have
> some good food!
Good breakfasts. We were on a budget otherwise, so didn't splurge too much, but on
our last night in Longyearbyen had an "Arctic buffet" with whale, seal, reindeer,
etc. etc. I liked the slivers of raw whale and the reindeer heart best. Some of the
other things there I didn't understand the Norwegian for, and hesitated to ask. One
had a bit of shot in it. Also a very good roe of some variety--it was yellowish.
> David
Take care
Jon
--=20 Jon Beasley-Murray Literature Program, Duke University
Spanish and Portuguese Studies, University of Manchester [email protected]
http://www.art.man.ac.uk/lacs/
Aug 19th 2002, 11:17 pm
#1375
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ATM's.......
JBM <[email protected]> wrote:
> A packet of mix?! ???!!!
Gasp- yes! They use them in Peru.
> Pisco, lime, sugar, ice, egg white, blended together, plus a bit of cinnamon on the
> top. All you need.
Yes, yes, and it's better, I agree, but if I'm out of eggs, or fresh limes, it
suffices. Really.
David
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk Composer
in Association- RLPO david (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
> A packet of mix?! ???!!!
Gasp- yes! They use them in Peru.
> Pisco, lime, sugar, ice, egg white, blended together, plus a bit of cinnamon on the
> top. All you need.
Yes, yes, and it's better, I agree, but if I'm out of eggs, or fresh limes, it
suffices. Really.
David
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk Composer
in Association- RLPO david (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
Aug 19th 2002, 11:20 pm
#1376
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ATM's.......
JBM <[email protected]> wrote:
> Some of the other things there I didn't understand the Norwegian for, and hesitated
> to ask. One had a bit of shot in it.
One of my aunts makes the most amazing venison steak with redberry sauce. I once
ground my teeth into a bullet of some kind, and this was considered good luck, or at
least a good laugh. Still, not as bad as walking into their cellar and seeing the
animal hanging upside down.
David
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk Composer
in Association- RLPO david (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
> Some of the other things there I didn't understand the Norwegian for, and hesitated
> to ask. One had a bit of shot in it.
One of my aunts makes the most amazing venison steak with redberry sauce. I once
ground my teeth into a bullet of some kind, and this was considered good luck, or at
least a good laugh. Still, not as bad as walking into their cellar and seeing the
animal hanging upside down.
David
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk Composer
in Association- RLPO david (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
Aug 20th 2002, 8:05 am
#1377
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ATM's.......
Dave Hatunen writes:
> You may not recall the early 1960s when the only Mcdonalds burger was the basic one
> they still sell, but tehn it was $0.19.
I recall the early 1960s when it was 15c, not 19c. The fries were 12c. (Sandy's
reversed the pricing - charging 12c for hamburgers and 15c for fries - and managed to
get a lot of customers that way.)
But they *don't* sell that sandwich any more. It was a grilled burger on a grilled
bun. The sandwich McDonald's sells today is a microwaved burger on a raw bun.
They don't sell the same fries either. They've gone from a fresh-cut partially-peeled
fry, cooked in animal fat, to a frozen completely-peeled fry cooked in vegetable
shortening.
--
http://paulding.net Many useful utilities
"Do only what only you can do." Rest in peace, Professor Dijkstra
> You may not recall the early 1960s when the only Mcdonalds burger was the basic one
> they still sell, but tehn it was $0.19.
I recall the early 1960s when it was 15c, not 19c. The fries were 12c. (Sandy's
reversed the pricing - charging 12c for hamburgers and 15c for fries - and managed to
get a lot of customers that way.)
But they *don't* sell that sandwich any more. It was a grilled burger on a grilled
bun. The sandwich McDonald's sells today is a microwaved burger on a raw bun.
They don't sell the same fries either. They've gone from a fresh-cut partially-peeled
fry, cooked in animal fat, to a frozen completely-peeled fry cooked in vegetable
shortening.
--
http://paulding.net Many useful utilities
"Do only what only you can do." Rest in peace, Professor Dijkstra
Aug 20th 2002, 8:37 am
#1378
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ATM's.......
In article <[email protected]>, JBM
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Not so. The US census (and most forms inviting you to give your race) has the
>category "White (non-Hispanic)," which implies that "White" may also be a subset of
>"Hispanic."
I heard a story about a US census in the early 70s or late 60s where they had a
question that sounded smth like ``Is your origin in the peoples of Central or South
America?'' and, sho nuff, half the people in the South answered yes.
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Not so. The US census (and most forms inviting you to give your race) has the
>category "White (non-Hispanic)," which implies that "White" may also be a subset of
>"Hispanic."
I heard a story about a US census in the early 70s or late 60s where they had a
question that sounded smth like ``Is your origin in the peoples of Central or South
America?'' and, sho nuff, half the people in the South answered yes.
Aug 20th 2002, 9:04 am
#1379
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ATM's.......
In article <[email protected]> , amp_spamfree
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Most fishing is a family with a handful of boats selling to canners and wholesalers
>- I gave you the data but you insist...fine.
Yeah, I insist on something that's patently obvious: a family with a handful of
boats *is* large-scale comparing with the kind of fishing we've been talking about
in this thread. I don't really know what you are arguing with. That 2 is more
than 78? Keep on truckin'.
>> It's better for the variety of fish,
>No it's not - not even close. You missed out on dozens upon dozens of warm water
>varieties.
... most of which are available in the US, of course.
>> But if you want to have a good meal 3 times a day and are not willing to limit
>> yourself to a ``mix of French and Italian influences,'' America is undeniably
>> better than Europe.
>Which explains Macoroni Grill, Fudruckers, and all those wonderfully American
>innovations.
And how does the existence of Macaroni Grill, Fuddrucker's and such contradict the
wide availability of excellent food in America? Do you understand that (NOT X
exists) does not imply (X does not exist)? Or is this one of those insights
limited to junior faculty with a backpack budget?
>> Maybe you are talking about salmon imported to the US, in which case the biggest
>> source is not BC, it's Chile (your numbers seem a few years old).
>And you have NO numbers...or is this too a Vitaly op?
Fine. I went to Google and searched for ``salmon imports chile canada'' It gave me
this reference: http://www.alaskajournal.com/stories/032501/fis_fish_forecast.shtml
Quote: ``Chile accounted for 49 percent of all U.S. salmon imports last year
[2000], up from 38 percent in 1999. According to Chris McDowell of Salmon Market
Information Service, Chile is the leader in salmon imports by a margin of 39
percent over its closest competitor, Canada''
Which part of it do you not understand?
>Do you REALLY think you are eating Alaskan wild salmon when you go to the local
>docks for your seafood?
No, I don't. *You* brought up salmon in a discussion of what's available when you
go to the local docks, and if there is one place in the US where it's salmon, that
would be Alaska, not BC and not Oregon.
>Wonderbread comes to mind. Processed bleached wheat. [...]
>Cheeze-whiz? kraft processed cheese food? Come on, Vitaly - your typical american
>lives on this stuff - the infamous grilled cheese sandwhich...what's that?
>Camembert?
I am not a slave-owner, so I don't know who you are talking about when referring
to ``my'' typical American. What I do know is what I see when I walk into my
grocery store. There is Wonderbread... and then there is the bakery section with
30 kinds of freshly baked bread. There is cheez-wiz... and then there is the
cheese section, with 50 or 100 cheeses from all over the world (camembert
included). There is bud lite... and four dozen microbrews and imported beers
stacked up to the ceiling. The ratio of this stuff to wonderbread and bud lite
plus fifty excellent restaurants with cuisine from all corners of the world on
just about every other suburban street tell more about what the typical American
lives on than your hot air.
>> But what they post about Europe is hardly better, even going as far as
>> suggesting Hard Rock Cafe as a source of American food in Paris.
>If it isn't American, what is it?
Is Macaroni Grill Italian? If it isn't Italian, what is it?
>I know, and that's why Im giving up on you - because your ignorance is quite
>staggering, exceeded only by your pompous arrogance.
It's rather amusing that someone who was ignorant and pompous enough to lecture me
on British visa regulations seems annoyed by my ``arrogance.'' So, road warrior,
is it possible to enter the UK without a passport or not?
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Most fishing is a family with a handful of boats selling to canners and wholesalers
>- I gave you the data but you insist...fine.
Yeah, I insist on something that's patently obvious: a family with a handful of
boats *is* large-scale comparing with the kind of fishing we've been talking about
in this thread. I don't really know what you are arguing with. That 2 is more
than 78? Keep on truckin'.
>> It's better for the variety of fish,
>No it's not - not even close. You missed out on dozens upon dozens of warm water
>varieties.
... most of which are available in the US, of course.
>> But if you want to have a good meal 3 times a day and are not willing to limit
>> yourself to a ``mix of French and Italian influences,'' America is undeniably
>> better than Europe.
>Which explains Macoroni Grill, Fudruckers, and all those wonderfully American
>innovations.
And how does the existence of Macaroni Grill, Fuddrucker's and such contradict the
wide availability of excellent food in America? Do you understand that (NOT X
exists) does not imply (X does not exist)? Or is this one of those insights
limited to junior faculty with a backpack budget?
>> Maybe you are talking about salmon imported to the US, in which case the biggest
>> source is not BC, it's Chile (your numbers seem a few years old).
>And you have NO numbers...or is this too a Vitaly op?
Fine. I went to Google and searched for ``salmon imports chile canada'' It gave me
this reference: http://www.alaskajournal.com/stories/032501/fis_fish_forecast.shtml
Quote: ``Chile accounted for 49 percent of all U.S. salmon imports last year
[2000], up from 38 percent in 1999. According to Chris McDowell of Salmon Market
Information Service, Chile is the leader in salmon imports by a margin of 39
percent over its closest competitor, Canada''
Which part of it do you not understand?
>Do you REALLY think you are eating Alaskan wild salmon when you go to the local
>docks for your seafood?
No, I don't. *You* brought up salmon in a discussion of what's available when you
go to the local docks, and if there is one place in the US where it's salmon, that
would be Alaska, not BC and not Oregon.
>Wonderbread comes to mind. Processed bleached wheat. [...]
>Cheeze-whiz? kraft processed cheese food? Come on, Vitaly - your typical american
>lives on this stuff - the infamous grilled cheese sandwhich...what's that?
>Camembert?
I am not a slave-owner, so I don't know who you are talking about when referring
to ``my'' typical American. What I do know is what I see when I walk into my
grocery store. There is Wonderbread... and then there is the bakery section with
30 kinds of freshly baked bread. There is cheez-wiz... and then there is the
cheese section, with 50 or 100 cheeses from all over the world (camembert
included). There is bud lite... and four dozen microbrews and imported beers
stacked up to the ceiling. The ratio of this stuff to wonderbread and bud lite
plus fifty excellent restaurants with cuisine from all corners of the world on
just about every other suburban street tell more about what the typical American
lives on than your hot air.
>> But what they post about Europe is hardly better, even going as far as
>> suggesting Hard Rock Cafe as a source of American food in Paris.
>If it isn't American, what is it?
Is Macaroni Grill Italian? If it isn't Italian, what is it?
>I know, and that's why Im giving up on you - because your ignorance is quite
>staggering, exceeded only by your pompous arrogance.
It's rather amusing that someone who was ignorant and pompous enough to lecture me
on British visa regulations seems annoyed by my ``arrogance.'' So, road warrior,
is it possible to enter the UK without a passport or not?
Aug 20th 2002, 9:47 am
#1380
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: ATM's.......
In article <[email protected] >, amp_spamfree
<[email protected]> wrote:
>> I don't know a whole lot about cars, but I thought that Mercedeses have a
>> reputation for high quality (correct me if I am wrong). So, lots of Mercedeses
>> in the US would show, if anything, that Americans import quality stuff from
>> Europe, whereas Europeans seem to go mostly for assorted American trash:
>> sitcoms, Planet Hollywood, etc.
>Because Europeans are not, as always, suckers for all things American. OK, blue
>jeans perhaps, but not Timex. Maybe Europeans are more discerning about quality
>than Americans?
... and this explains why Americans import Mercedeses, while Europeans import
Planet Hollywood and McDonalds? Because Europeans are more discerning about
quality than Americans? Sure.
>In no case has anyone brought forward examples of true American cuisine that
>couldn't be traced to a specific location or non-American ethnicity.
Of course it can be traced to a specific location. All good food can. Do you
think your beloved French cuisine cannot be traced to a specific location? *All*
good food is regional (Southwestern, Alsacian, Auvergnat, etc.), even more so in
Europe than in the US. And I think TMOliver has done an admirable job rubbing your
face into examples of American food that go far beyond your ``plateful of meat and
potatoes.''
>> It's different in different parts of the US, and, for example, in California,
>> yes, it would most certainly include poblanos.
>Then it isn't exactly "American" cuisine, it's Californian.
California is part of America. America is a big place, you know, it would be
really strange if cuisine were the same everywhere. There is California cuisine
and New England cuisine and Tex-Mex cuisine just like there is Portuguese cuisine
and Greek cuisine and Swedish cuisine in Europe.
>> Same deal for ``American'' food at the Hard Rock Cafe.
>If it isn't American food, what the hell is it?
It's a corporate version of American food, from which all spirit has been drained.
>No, Olive Garden's characterize AMERICANIZED Italian food. And that's the point -
>Hard Rock represents American cuisine - if not, then what?
What Olive Garden and Macaroni Grill are to Italian food, Hard Rock Cafe is to
American food. Describe it any way you want. Neither is really representative of
its ostensible source.
>What characterizes food is neither ingredients or cooking style but rather tastes
>and textures. You've never had professional culinary training, have you.
Even without professional culinary training, I know that you cannot get a taste or
texture of a truffle out of an avocado. It's all about the ingredients and how
they are cooked. If the ingredients are good and cooked properly, taste and
texture will follow.
>Then provide an example or two of typical American cuisine that is readily
>available in American restaurants across America.
As soon as you provide an example or two of typical European cuisine that is
readily available in European restaurants across Europe. America is a big place.
In some parts, you'd be able to get a clam chowder everywhere. In others, it might
be a taco or a top-grade steak. Just like in Europe. Only, unlike Europe, in
America there is also excellent cuisine from other places - from Thailand and Burma
and Bolivia and just about any country you can think of.
>Still, you can't come up with a single example what makes Hard Rock, Fudruckers or
>Fridays unamerican. Or perhaps for seafood one should try Red Lobster? These
>chains are your staples - they are all over and represent what the majority of
>Americans know of and associate with American food other than the drive through.
I cannot make a judgment about the ``majority'' of Americans. Everywhere I've
lived, and I've lived in quite a few places around the US (although most were on
the coasts, not in the heartland), the staples aren't Hard Rock Cafe or
Fuddrucker's, but simple burger and taco stands, lobster shacks, Chinese take-outs,
Vietnamese noodle joints, etc.
>> You seem to know as little about good food to Tokyo as in Paris or America. You
>> most certainly don't need more than $70 to eat well in Tokyo. You can certainly
>> spend $70 and $700, if you wish, but it's hardly necessary.
>And how much was the Kobe beef?
If you think that good food in Tokyo is limited to Kobe beef, you really need a
decent guidebook. And move this thread to rec.travel.asia. I am sure folks over
there will be glad to help you out.
>> You are not thinking that I am a junior faculty with a backpack budget, are you?
>> (FYI: I am not junior faculty, nor do I have backpack budgets).
>2 years out of university - what are you, some Russian nobleman?
You don't really know what you are talking about, do you? You have no idea what it
is I do, how many years out of university I am, what kind of budgets I travel on.
You basically know zilch about me. Which doesn't stop you from making one
ridiculous assertion about me after another. What gives?
>your brush with culinary greatness doesn't compare to what many of my colleagues and
>I do - day in and day out.
Whereas *your* brush with culinary greatness convinced you that American food is a
plateful of meat and potatoes. Since you seem to be a fan of upscale places and
are rather liberal with dispensing dining advice, I'll generously share one more
tip with you. When back in Chicago, check out a little American place called
Charlie Trotter's. I presume you can afford it.
>You have no concept of what execs know or don't know about food.
Possible. I do have a concept of what *you* know about food, which, by the way, is
based solely on your postings, not on the kind of ridiculous inferences you attempt
to make about me.
>> For all I know, ask them about ethnic food in Paris, and they'll send you to Foc
>> Ly for Chinese and Hard Rock Cafe for American.
>Because you can't afford one
I cannot afford what? Foc Ly? You just don't get it, do you? You see, for about
the price of a dinner at Foc Ly I can have a lunch at Lucas-Carton, and
(presumably) just like you, I'd rather eat at Lucas-Carton than Foc Ly. Unlike
you, however, I realize that Foc Ly *bad* Chinese food, while Lucas-Carton is
*good* French food. My distaste for Foc Ly has nothing to do with the price.
Unlike you, I am not obsessed with the price, because it's a poor indicator of
quality. An expensive place may be good or bad, and so can be a cheap place.
Depending on my mood and circumstances, I may have a dinner at a 2-star restaurant
or buy a crepe from a corner stand. Whereas you, in your pomposity and ignorance,
seem to think that because you spend $70 on a dinner, the food must be good.
>and don't recognize your own cuisine in the other
Just like you don't recognize Italian cuisine in Olive Garden. The mere name means
nothing. It's all about the ingredients and how they are cooked.
<[email protected]> wrote:
>> I don't know a whole lot about cars, but I thought that Mercedeses have a
>> reputation for high quality (correct me if I am wrong). So, lots of Mercedeses
>> in the US would show, if anything, that Americans import quality stuff from
>> Europe, whereas Europeans seem to go mostly for assorted American trash:
>> sitcoms, Planet Hollywood, etc.
>Because Europeans are not, as always, suckers for all things American. OK, blue
>jeans perhaps, but not Timex. Maybe Europeans are more discerning about quality
>than Americans?
... and this explains why Americans import Mercedeses, while Europeans import
Planet Hollywood and McDonalds? Because Europeans are more discerning about
quality than Americans? Sure.
>In no case has anyone brought forward examples of true American cuisine that
>couldn't be traced to a specific location or non-American ethnicity.
Of course it can be traced to a specific location. All good food can. Do you
think your beloved French cuisine cannot be traced to a specific location? *All*
good food is regional (Southwestern, Alsacian, Auvergnat, etc.), even more so in
Europe than in the US. And I think TMOliver has done an admirable job rubbing your
face into examples of American food that go far beyond your ``plateful of meat and
potatoes.''
>> It's different in different parts of the US, and, for example, in California,
>> yes, it would most certainly include poblanos.
>Then it isn't exactly "American" cuisine, it's Californian.
California is part of America. America is a big place, you know, it would be
really strange if cuisine were the same everywhere. There is California cuisine
and New England cuisine and Tex-Mex cuisine just like there is Portuguese cuisine
and Greek cuisine and Swedish cuisine in Europe.
>> Same deal for ``American'' food at the Hard Rock Cafe.
>If it isn't American food, what the hell is it?
It's a corporate version of American food, from which all spirit has been drained.
>No, Olive Garden's characterize AMERICANIZED Italian food. And that's the point -
>Hard Rock represents American cuisine - if not, then what?
What Olive Garden and Macaroni Grill are to Italian food, Hard Rock Cafe is to
American food. Describe it any way you want. Neither is really representative of
its ostensible source.
>What characterizes food is neither ingredients or cooking style but rather tastes
>and textures. You've never had professional culinary training, have you.
Even without professional culinary training, I know that you cannot get a taste or
texture of a truffle out of an avocado. It's all about the ingredients and how
they are cooked. If the ingredients are good and cooked properly, taste and
texture will follow.
>Then provide an example or two of typical American cuisine that is readily
>available in American restaurants across America.
As soon as you provide an example or two of typical European cuisine that is
readily available in European restaurants across Europe. America is a big place.
In some parts, you'd be able to get a clam chowder everywhere. In others, it might
be a taco or a top-grade steak. Just like in Europe. Only, unlike Europe, in
America there is also excellent cuisine from other places - from Thailand and Burma
and Bolivia and just about any country you can think of.
>Still, you can't come up with a single example what makes Hard Rock, Fudruckers or
>Fridays unamerican. Or perhaps for seafood one should try Red Lobster? These
>chains are your staples - they are all over and represent what the majority of
>Americans know of and associate with American food other than the drive through.
I cannot make a judgment about the ``majority'' of Americans. Everywhere I've
lived, and I've lived in quite a few places around the US (although most were on
the coasts, not in the heartland), the staples aren't Hard Rock Cafe or
Fuddrucker's, but simple burger and taco stands, lobster shacks, Chinese take-outs,
Vietnamese noodle joints, etc.
>> You seem to know as little about good food to Tokyo as in Paris or America. You
>> most certainly don't need more than $70 to eat well in Tokyo. You can certainly
>> spend $70 and $700, if you wish, but it's hardly necessary.
>And how much was the Kobe beef?
If you think that good food in Tokyo is limited to Kobe beef, you really need a
decent guidebook. And move this thread to rec.travel.asia. I am sure folks over
there will be glad to help you out.
>> You are not thinking that I am a junior faculty with a backpack budget, are you?
>> (FYI: I am not junior faculty, nor do I have backpack budgets).
>2 years out of university - what are you, some Russian nobleman?
You don't really know what you are talking about, do you? You have no idea what it
is I do, how many years out of university I am, what kind of budgets I travel on.
You basically know zilch about me. Which doesn't stop you from making one
ridiculous assertion about me after another. What gives?
>your brush with culinary greatness doesn't compare to what many of my colleagues and
>I do - day in and day out.
Whereas *your* brush with culinary greatness convinced you that American food is a
plateful of meat and potatoes. Since you seem to be a fan of upscale places and
are rather liberal with dispensing dining advice, I'll generously share one more
tip with you. When back in Chicago, check out a little American place called
Charlie Trotter's. I presume you can afford it.
>You have no concept of what execs know or don't know about food.
Possible. I do have a concept of what *you* know about food, which, by the way, is
based solely on your postings, not on the kind of ridiculous inferences you attempt
to make about me.
>> For all I know, ask them about ethnic food in Paris, and they'll send you to Foc
>> Ly for Chinese and Hard Rock Cafe for American.
>Because you can't afford one
I cannot afford what? Foc Ly? You just don't get it, do you? You see, for about
the price of a dinner at Foc Ly I can have a lunch at Lucas-Carton, and
(presumably) just like you, I'd rather eat at Lucas-Carton than Foc Ly. Unlike
you, however, I realize that Foc Ly *bad* Chinese food, while Lucas-Carton is
*good* French food. My distaste for Foc Ly has nothing to do with the price.
Unlike you, I am not obsessed with the price, because it's a poor indicator of
quality. An expensive place may be good or bad, and so can be a cheap place.
Depending on my mood and circumstances, I may have a dinner at a 2-star restaurant
or buy a crepe from a corner stand. Whereas you, in your pomposity and ignorance,
seem to think that because you spend $70 on a dinner, the food must be good.
>and don't recognize your own cuisine in the other
Just like you don't recognize Italian cuisine in Olive Garden. The mere name means
nothing. It's all about the ingredients and how they are cooked.