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This might change your mind about moving back

This might change your mind about moving back

Old Jun 20th 2007, 4:21 pm
  #91  
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Default Re: This might change your mind about moving back

Originally Posted by Elvira
So why don't you move back to the land of windmills and tulips...

What a childish thing to say
Because I'm Dutch doesn't mean I'm blind and deaf!!!
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Old Jun 20th 2007, 4:30 pm
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Default Re: This might change your mind about moving back

yes- those things do happen, yes they are around lots in the UK,

no, I do not want to return to the UK and raise me kids there - ever

but not for those reasons.

I just get more out of our lives overseas .... doesnt mean many others dont have fantastic lives in the UK. Out of all our close friends who have kids in all age ranges there isnt a chavvy, drug taking loon amogst them. I do know of them though .... through friends of friends etc..

they're all decent people and have managed to raise decent kids - which can be hard work in the UK when the teenage appeal is to be a monosylabic moron who'd rather intentionally fail at school than be seen as a swot ....

same in the 80's, the 90's and today.
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Old Jun 20th 2007, 4:41 pm
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Default Re: This might change your mind about moving back

Originally Posted by Molly Malone
I didn't bother to read the entire page, but read enough of it to see that the author is touting opinions as facts, and most of his references are from his own essays. Who references themselves, ffs?
I think this exaggerates the issues, yes.

But I also know the rates of teen drinking and STDs *on average* in the UK are far higher not only than those in the rest of Europe but in the US as well. I also know that most American teens will not commit aggressive behaviour towards elderly people, and that element of British teens, no matter how slight, really offputs me.

Those of you in the US who think that you have a teen "chav" problem on par with that in the UK -- please post at least your state so I know not to go there! As I have mentioned numerous times in other threads, this is the ONLY thing (well besides grey weather ) that I don't like about the UK; this comes from an Anglophile++++. I talk back to the chavs and so far have lived to tell the tales but it has made every adult around me squirm with terror!
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Old Jun 20th 2007, 5:34 pm
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Default Re: This might change your mind about moving back

[QUOTE=snowbunny;4942990... But I also know the rates of teen drinking and STDs *on average* in the UK are far higher not only than those in the rest of Europe but in the US as well. I also know that most American teens will not commit aggressive behaviour towards elderly people..........[/QUOTE]

Yeah, they mainly just shoot each other...

Thank god we still don't have the kind of no-go zones and gangland ghettos that are so widespread in the US.
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Old Jun 20th 2007, 5:39 pm
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Default Re: This might change your mind about moving back

Originally Posted by snowbunny
I think this exaggerates the issues, yes.

But I also know the rates of teen drinking and STDs *on average* in the UK are far higher not only than those in the rest of Europe but in the US as well. I also know that most American teens will not commit aggressive behaviour towards elderly people, and that element of British teens, no matter how slight, really offputs me.

Those of you in the US who think that you have a teen "chav" problem on par with that in the UK -- please post at least your state so I know not to go there! As I have mentioned numerous times in other threads, this is the ONLY thing (well besides grey weather ) that I don't like about the UK; this comes from an Anglophile++++. I talk back to the chavs and so far have lived to tell the tales but it has made every adult around me squirm with terror!

I know they made Boston a safe city for a few years...but now all you hear on the news is some poor kid is killed in a shooting or some such...I was in a street gang in the UK where someone was killed way back in the 70s...not sure how common it was after that...seeing something like that kinda makes you grow up quick and find new friends....
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Old Jun 20th 2007, 6:50 pm
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Default Re: This might change your mind about moving back

Originally Posted by snowbunny
I think this exaggerates the issues, yes.

But I also know the rates of teen drinking and STDs *on average* in the UK are far higher not only than those in the rest of Europe but in the US as well. I also know that most American teens will not commit aggressive behaviour towards elderly people, and that element of British teens, no matter how slight, really offputs me.

Those of you in the US who think that you have a teen "chav" problem on par with that in the UK -- please post at least your state so I know not to go there! As I have mentioned numerous times in other threads, this is the ONLY thing (well besides grey weather ) that I don't like about the UK; this comes from an Anglophile++++. I talk back to the chavs and so far have lived to tell the tales but it has made every adult around me squirm with terror!

Since beginning to read this thread yesterday, I've been putting a lot of thought into this one (especially as someone hoping to get back to the UK after being here in the US for 15 yrs). (though I do think that original link is a lot of codswallop).

Obviously, everywhere has it's problems, and sometimes making comparisons are so difficult--so much of what makes an area "rough" or a no-go area are context-based. I live in an urban area in the midwest (lansing, michigan). My particular neighborhood is very diverse in terms of race and class, and there most certainly are areas where I feel less comfortable. My area is nice, but just a few blocks over the houses noticably deteriorate and poverty is muich more visible. There are shootings and gun deaths in my city, more in one week than where I grew up in probably one year. But ironically, I feel pretty safe here--I feel I can walk into "dodgy" areas and not be too intimidated. I can say hello and normally get a friendly greeting back. That is not always the case, and certainly not with the teenagers who strut past our house walking down the middle of our street with a "don't mess with me" signal, although, that said, I can normally cajole these kids and get a smile.

When I experience British teens, I can honestly say my experience is quite different--there *is* something intimidating about them sometimes. It's definitely part of an act--and then this *act* gets played up by the media, and it becomes a kind of self-fulfilling prophesy. IMO most people are fundamentally decent and want to get on in life. And then I also think back to my own teenage years, and what a pretty foulmouthed and intimidating lot we were ganging up at the bus station. I'm not saying there is not an attitude problem among young British people--I do see that. And I know my parent's idyllic little Kentish village is experiencing it's fair share of vandalism (and the community is really trying to proactively find solutions for the "bored teenager" syndrome, which I think is great and a sign that positives can come of this).

In the states, there are many more extremes in terms of poverty and violence than in the UK, but there is also a lot more separation among the classes. In the U.S. a lot of the urban centers suffer from "white flight" syndrome, where all the middle-classes leave a city center to live in suburbia, and what you are left with is a rundown ghostown. This is very sad to see, and one of the main reasons I want to come back to a country where city centres still exist in the community sense.

In the UK you get a lot more diversity in terms of race, class and culture in much smaller spaces. You get people having to get along and use the same amenities and be part of the same community in much more obvious ways than here. I think this is one of the major pluses about the UK, even though it clearly leads to a lot of negatives too, a lot of clashes.

Sorry to go on, but this is partly me trying to sort through how I think about this, especially as we consider going back and I wonder if my sons are doomed to chavdom! ;-)
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Old Jun 20th 2007, 7:12 pm
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Default Re: This might change your mind about moving back

Originally Posted by gingajoy
When I experience British teens, I can honestly say my experience is quite different--there *is* something intimidating about them sometimes. It's definitely part of an act--and then this *act* gets played up by the media, and it becomes a kind of self-fulfilling prophesy.
For the most part it IS an act and so long as you are confident without being domineering they tend to either interact with you more positively, or at least leave you alone.

But there have been a few violent attacks either unprovoked or by adults confronting youths who were, say, vandalising something.... severe attacks that left permanent physical disability. I can honestly say that I just don't see that kind of attack in the US very often -- to be sure there's other violence, but not the kid-on-grownup-or-worse-a-pensioner stuff that *sometimes* happens in the UK.

I haven't given up hope -- I still talk to the kids -- but it IS a lot scarier than here in the US and like I said, it causes every adult within hearing distance to hiss at me and tell me to not bother the kids!
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Old Jun 20th 2007, 7:54 pm
  #98  
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Default Re: This might change your mind about moving back

Originally Posted by Issie
Hi N

This has happened to me and my family in the last two weekends

Weekend number 1) we went to the beach for the day( the one i use to go to as a kid) but only this time it was full of house bricks and clay and the sea was brown. The kids were all trying to get drink on to the beach hence the police buggy patroling the beach all day confiscating the booze ( bet the staff had a right good party later on ) The lads were all spitting all over the beach and the litter was .....just disgusting. No one seemed to take thier rubbish away.

Weekend numder 2 ) Me hubb and the kids were settleing down to watch a movie , so before it started hubby and daughter ( 9 ) went to the shop for some chocolate. Just about to get served when an armed robber comes in a demands the money from the till. He had a kitchen knife in his hand, no coverage to his face and the store was full and the security gaurd stood there and did nothing and in a way i am glad because this lad meant buisness and he would have stabbed him.


Not internet rubbish ...but true facts.

So when are your flights booked for
thpp



then u suddenly woke up
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Old Jun 20th 2007, 8:00 pm
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Default Re: This might change your mind about moving back

Originally Posted by Elvira
Yeah, they mainly just shoot each other...

Thank god we still don't have the kind of no-go zones and gangland ghettos that are so widespread in the US.
I agree that the violent gang-on-gang behaviour is worse in the US. But like so many other social ills, Americans are usually able to "contain" it well away from the nice folk.

Maybe it's just the Southern culture speaking, but I cannot STAND seeing young people being rude to their elders. And that was true even when I was the young one.
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Old Jun 20th 2007, 8:03 pm
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Default Re: This might change your mind about moving back

Originally Posted by clougherty family
thpp


then u suddenly woke up
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Old Jun 20th 2007, 8:18 pm
  #101  
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Default Re: This might change your mind about moving back

Originally Posted by snowbunny
For the most part it IS an act and so long as you are confident without being domineering they tend to either interact with you more positively, or at least leave you alone.

But there have been a few violent attacks either unprovoked or by adults confronting youths who were, say, vandalising something.... severe attacks that left permanent physical disability. I can honestly say that I just don't see that kind of attack in the US very often -- to be sure there's other violence, but not the kid-on-grownup-or-worse-a-pensioner stuff that *sometimes* happens in the UK.

I haven't given up hope -- I still talk to the kids -- but it IS a lot scarier than here in the US and like I said, it causes every adult within hearing distance to hiss at me and tell me to not bother the kids!
It is no act! They just don't know how else to behave! They don't get taught, they have poor examples at home!
A couple of months ago there was a programm about English teenagers on TV,
they didn't have any future visions,no communication skills, just poorly educated by society!
In a way I feel sorry for them, what's gonna happen to the future with an attitude like that....
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Old Jun 20th 2007, 8:31 pm
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Default Re: This might change your mind about moving back

Originally Posted by trutje
It is no act! They just don't know how else to behave! They don't get taught, they have poor examples at home!
A couple of months ago there was a programm about English teenagers on TV,
they didn't have any future visions,no communication skills, just poorly educated by society!
In a way I feel sorry for them, what's gonna happen to the future with an attitude like that....
You make it sound like you are speaking about all teenagers which is hardly fair. Not every teenager in the UK is an illiterate thug! There were kids like that when I was growing and there will continue to be kids like that and unfortunately there will always be people who say the whole of England is going to the dogs! Again a sweeping generalization.
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Old Jun 20th 2007, 8:38 pm
  #103  
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Default Re: This might change your mind about moving back

Originally Posted by LeedsGirl
You make it sound like you are speaking about all teenagers which is hardly fair. Not every teenager in the UK is an illiterate thug! There were kids like that when I was growing and there will continue to be kids like that and unfortunately there will always be people who say the whole of England is going to the dogs! Again a sweeping generalization.
Ofcourse it's not all, but the majority is. You say yourself that it was bad when you was a kid. Well, that nothing has changed says enough!
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Old Jun 20th 2007, 8:45 pm
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Default Re: This might change your mind about moving back

Originally Posted by trutje
Ofcourse it's not all, but the majority is. You say yourself that it was bad when you was a kid. Well, that nothing has changed says enough!
I said there were kids like that when I was growing up and will continue to be, just the same as in any other country. I do not agree with your statement that the majority of kids are bad. Again, it is a sweeping generalization unless you have some pretty accurate numbers
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Old Jun 20th 2007, 8:51 pm
  #105  
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Default Re: This might change your mind about moving back

Originally Posted by LeedsGirl
I said there were kids like that when I was growing up and will continue to be, just the same as in any other country. I do not agree with your statement that the majority of kids are bad. Again, it is a sweeping generalization unless you have some pretty accurate numbers
Sorry misunderstood!
But I didn't say that the kids are BAD. Not to be able to communicate , no future visions doesn't make them BAD. They are poorly educated, either by parents, family, education system, society!

Last edited by trutje; Jun 20th 2007 at 8:54 pm.
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