Ok, I take your point. I'm not literally insisting that every Muslim has a responsibility to take action; it's more a case of stressing that communities should take action. The reality is complex because there are obviously safety issues involved when anyone opposes fundamentalism, not least for the moderates.

However, at this stage of developments, I am frustrated by the lack of action coming from the Muslim community. I believe that instead of commiserating with them we should be pushing them to divide their community. For example, when the extremists set up stands to recruit in Portsmouth or Finsbury Park, why is there not a big presence of moderate Muslims making life difficult for them. When the extremists picket funerals, where are the moderates shouting them down. When schools are identified as anti-Western and radicalising young children, where are the moderates. They don't seem to want to get involved.

I'll sit back and enjoy the adulation. Thank you.

270 posts in 4 days, wow it's 12 jan and I might have thread of the year. Or not!

You all know the maple has been dull for almost year and at last you have something to get your teeth into. It's just like back in the day, whatever that means?

No strong views on the latest royal scandal, nope.

A pity you're not interested in my views, your prerogative. However, if you are interested in considering contrary views generally, this short speech at Oxford is worth a listen:


I would be interested to hear what you or others think on it.

I suppose it would be churlish of me to point out that you only joined a bit under 2 years ago?

Don't let a minor point such as that get in the way, back in the day, is back in the day.

Because generally people with moderate views are not activists. They are just ordinary people with ordinary lives, they go to work, they worry about retirement and the school their kids go to etc.

All of them? All 1.5 million of them in Britain? They couldn't scrape together a few hundred, a few thousand people to oppose the intolerance that the extremists spread. Sorry, but that's a cop out response.

There are some parallels with gay rights many years back. There was a vast silient majority that didn't see it as their business to voice support for gay rights (oppose the conservatism in society and legislation). It wasn't until people started to become vocal and make their opposition to persecution known, that the conservative factions withered.

Who is "they"? Who are you asking to scrape together these people?

It seems to me that you are just creating a straw group of people and demanding that they do something. This rhetoric might make you feel better, but it achieves nothing because Muslims are all individuals with their own priorities - they are the ones who decide what to do with their time. If that is to put their feet up and watch the telly instead of activism then they are no different to you.

Excuse me? What alternative planet have you been living on?

Oh, I see. You missed a word out. Fixed.

Dear God, or Allah, or alan2005 or whatever, you expect other people to take that laughable raving nonsense as evidence against the notion that you too have no f***ing clue?

Now I've taken part in debates at the Oxford Union, in the very early 1970s, only because my father insisted I join and paid the 12 pound membership fee because that what's he would always want to have done.

I heard some outrageous crap there, but never anything quite as bad as that except for once. John Tyndall, leader of the National Front.

But even he took points of order and points of information during the "debate".

I guess your only shame is you have bought nothing to it.

Just watching "Dawn of the Planet of the Apes".

Kick arse movie actually.

Isn't that the intention?

How do you know they don't oppose it in their mosque's or make an effort?

Do you follow them all around?

You see radicals at Yonge & Dundas go largely unopposed here in Toronto. It's the strength of a free society.

What is more alarming is Cameron pushing for more Internet Spy powers.

I remember attending a Football match up in Middlesborough in 2006 and being detained by Police and having to say my name and address into a camera under "The Terrorism Act".

Should have took the twelve pounds to the Student Union! Probably would have been quite a few drinks back in those days!