EU Referendum
Jul 12th 2016 | 10:34 am
#631
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 18,800
From: Not in Paris
Re: EU Referendum
There's equally as much evidence on the other side of the equation that many of the dire warnings given by the Remainers haven't come to pass either. No 'punishment' budget, the FTSE has rallied, the pound is also starting to rise again. Even if some Leavers have changed their minds is it enough to change the result? What happens if the result is the same, but with a reduced margin, say 51/49? Best of five?
Bottom line a second referendum isn't going to happen so the Remainers should put their energy into shaping the level of Brexit we end up going with two years from now.
Bottom line a second referendum isn't going to happen so the Remainers should put their energy into shaping the level of Brexit we end up going with two years from now.
Last edited by BritInParis; Jul 12th 2016 at 10:46 am.
Jul 12th 2016 | 10:36 am
#632
Thread Starter
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,282
From: British Columbia
Re: EU Referendum
Eh? What other issues?
The leave campaign was based on stopping the immigrants and taking all that money that goes to the EU and putting it into the NHS. Neither of which were serious possibilities but both of which tap into legitimate concerns and are easy to sell. Brilliant work by those who've since done a runner.
The leave campaign was based on stopping the immigrants and taking all that money that goes to the EU and putting it into the NHS. Neither of which were serious possibilities but both of which tap into legitimate concerns and are easy to sell. Brilliant work by those who've since done a runner.
Although I am told that many Leavers were not motivated by stopping immigration or the give the NHS funds lies and it was more a case of being free from EU regulation.
S
PS: what I also find worrying is how divisive this whole In/Out Q has become. It's not like when your mate or your relative voted Conservative and you voted Labour. You think they're a bit misguided maybe but it doesn't really affect your relationship. This really does make you think/feel differently about those who voted the opposite way to you. I am struggling to analyse this.
Jul 12th 2016 | 10:54 am
#634
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 11,628
Re: EU Referendum
I'm in Germany now (my second home), and I've brought up the subject frequently with the locals. My sense is that Germans seem a lot less interested in it than Brits are. Although they seem to be rather confused about the referendum, and especially the anti-EU and anti-everything vitriol that emulated from it.
Germans just don't fear EU membership like Brits do, and in fact widely embrace it. And they do seem to interpret Britain's anti-EU rhetoric as unwarranted fear, not some march toward "freedom and democracy" as often sold by the leave camp, simply because as an EU member, Germany is pretty free and democratic as it is. That whole argument just doesn't reckon with most Germans.
But there is some dissent about immigration - although it's exclusively directed toward refugees rather than EU migrants, a "crisis" which by comparison, Britain simply cannot lay claim to (yet clearly does, if you remember for example, Farage's infamous poster, and the constant stream of hysterical tabloid headlines).
Plus, overall, Germany has until now, done pretty well inside the EU. It's economically in good shape, and the vast majority of people live a pretty high standard. So it's all a bit confusing for them.
Most seem fully aware that Brexit hurts everyone, including Germany, but I sense the general feeling is that it hurts Britain the most, and because Britain brought this on itself, will need to sort it out itself. They seem to look at it as a British problem, and so there's not a lot of daily thought or discussion about it.
Germans just don't fear EU membership like Brits do, and in fact widely embrace it. And they do seem to interpret Britain's anti-EU rhetoric as unwarranted fear, not some march toward "freedom and democracy" as often sold by the leave camp, simply because as an EU member, Germany is pretty free and democratic as it is. That whole argument just doesn't reckon with most Germans.
But there is some dissent about immigration - although it's exclusively directed toward refugees rather than EU migrants, a "crisis" which by comparison, Britain simply cannot lay claim to (yet clearly does, if you remember for example, Farage's infamous poster, and the constant stream of hysterical tabloid headlines).
Plus, overall, Germany has until now, done pretty well inside the EU. It's economically in good shape, and the vast majority of people live a pretty high standard. So it's all a bit confusing for them.
Most seem fully aware that Brexit hurts everyone, including Germany, but I sense the general feeling is that it hurts Britain the most, and because Britain brought this on itself, will need to sort it out itself. They seem to look at it as a British problem, and so there's not a lot of daily thought or discussion about it.
Will be an interesting time watching how Brexit is implemented.
Jul 12th 2016 | 10:57 am
#635
Oscar nominated
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 55,309
From: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Re: EU Referendum
What happens if the result is the same, but with a reduced margin, say 51/49? Best of five?
There's strong belief that the whole thing has been handled badly - even the campaigners for it have skulked off.
It seems irresponsible not to be absolutely certain.
Jul 12th 2016 | 11:05 am
#636
`
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 38,634
Re: EU Referendum
I'm in Germany now (my second home), and I've brought up the subject frequently with the locals. My sense is that Germans seem a lot less interested in it than Brits are. Although they seem to be rather confused about the referendum, and especially the anti-EU and anti-everything vitriol that emulated from it.
Germans just don't fear EU membership like Brits do, and in fact widely embrace it. And they do seem to interpret Britain's anti-EU rhetoric as unwarranted fear, not some march toward "freedom and democracy" as often sold by the leave camp, simply because as an EU member, Germany is pretty free and democratic as it is. That whole argument just doesn't reckon with most Germans.
But there is some dissent about immigration - although it's exclusively directed toward refugees rather than EU migrants, a "crisis" which by comparison, Britain simply cannot lay claim to (yet clearly does, if you remember for example, Farage's infamous poster, and the constant stream of hysterical tabloid headlines).
Plus, overall, Germany has until now, done pretty well inside the EU. It's economically in good shape, and the vast majority of people live a pretty high standard. So it's all a bit confusing for them.
Most seem fully aware that Brexit hurts everyone, including Germany, but I sense the general feeling is that it hurts Britain the most, and because Britain brought this on itself, will need to sort it out itself. They seem to look at it as a British problem, and so there's not a lot of daily thought or discussion about it.
Germans just don't fear EU membership like Brits do, and in fact widely embrace it. And they do seem to interpret Britain's anti-EU rhetoric as unwarranted fear, not some march toward "freedom and democracy" as often sold by the leave camp, simply because as an EU member, Germany is pretty free and democratic as it is. That whole argument just doesn't reckon with most Germans.
But there is some dissent about immigration - although it's exclusively directed toward refugees rather than EU migrants, a "crisis" which by comparison, Britain simply cannot lay claim to (yet clearly does, if you remember for example, Farage's infamous poster, and the constant stream of hysterical tabloid headlines).
Plus, overall, Germany has until now, done pretty well inside the EU. It's economically in good shape, and the vast majority of people live a pretty high standard. So it's all a bit confusing for them.
Most seem fully aware that Brexit hurts everyone, including Germany, but I sense the general feeling is that it hurts Britain the most, and because Britain brought this on itself, will need to sort it out itself. They seem to look at it as a British problem, and so there's not a lot of daily thought or discussion about it.
Jul 12th 2016 | 3:06 pm
#637
Realist
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 24,667
From: UK
Re: EU Referendum
Wahey...a few days ago they said they were not going to debate a second referendum (as requested by the petition) and now they have just said they will. September 5th.
You recently signed the petition “EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendumâ€:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
The Petitions Committee has decided to schedule a House of Commons debate on this petition. The debate will take place on 5 September at 4.30pm in Westminster Hall, the second debating chamber of the House of Commons. The debate will be opened by Ian Blackford MP.
The Committee has decided that the huge number of people signing this petition means that it should be debated by MPs. The Petitions Committee would like to make clear that, in scheduling this debate, they are not supporting the call for a second referendum. The debate will allow MPs to put forward a range of views on behalf of their constituents. At the end of the debate, a Government Minister will respond to the points raised.
A debate in Westminster Hall does not have the power to change the law, and won’t end with the House of Commons deciding whether or not to have a second referendum. Moreover, the petition – which was opened on 25 May, well before the referendum – calls for the referendum rules to be changed. It is now too late for the rules to be changed retrospectively. It will be up to the Government to decide whether it wants to start the process of agreeing a new law for a second referendum.
The Petitions Committee is a cross-party group of MPs. It is independent from Government. You can find out more about the Committee on its website: http://www.parliament.uk/petitions-committee/role
Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament
You recently signed the petition “EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendumâ€:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
The Petitions Committee has decided to schedule a House of Commons debate on this petition. The debate will take place on 5 September at 4.30pm in Westminster Hall, the second debating chamber of the House of Commons. The debate will be opened by Ian Blackford MP.
The Committee has decided that the huge number of people signing this petition means that it should be debated by MPs. The Petitions Committee would like to make clear that, in scheduling this debate, they are not supporting the call for a second referendum. The debate will allow MPs to put forward a range of views on behalf of their constituents. At the end of the debate, a Government Minister will respond to the points raised.
A debate in Westminster Hall does not have the power to change the law, and won’t end with the House of Commons deciding whether or not to have a second referendum. Moreover, the petition – which was opened on 25 May, well before the referendum – calls for the referendum rules to be changed. It is now too late for the rules to be changed retrospectively. It will be up to the Government to decide whether it wants to start the process of agreeing a new law for a second referendum.
The Petitions Committee is a cross-party group of MPs. It is independent from Government. You can find out more about the Committee on its website: http://www.parliament.uk/petitions-committee/role
Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament
Last edited by Shard; Jul 12th 2016 at 3:14 pm.
Jul 12th 2016 | 3:49 pm
#638
Thread Starter
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,282
From: British Columbia
Re: EU Referendum
Gosh. Didn't think that would happen.
S
Oh I've just read it more carefully. There isn't going to be another ref on this issue.
S
Oh I've just read it more carefully. There isn't going to be another ref on this issue.
Jul 12th 2016 | 6:28 pm
#639
Banned
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 19,878
From: SW Ontario
Re: EU Referendum
The trouble is, you are all guessing. Guessing what Joe Blogs mindset was when he chose to vote leave. Guessing what John Smith thought when he chose to vote remain. You cannot know what anybody was thinking or their reasons behind their decision, apart from yourself. Even when people say this or that reason, it doesn't mean it's the truth - they could be covering up what their real reason was.
It's all supposition, hypothesis and speculation.
Sigh.
It's all supposition, hypothesis and speculation.
Sigh.
Last edited by Siouxie; Jul 12th 2016 at 6:32 pm.
Jul 13th 2016 | 12:06 am
#640
Realist
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 24,667
From: UK
Re: EU Referendum
Probably not, but there's a certain symbolism to it. There's been quite a few politicians express caution on triggering Article 50 before we know what's on offer, and if the negotiated settlement is below expectation, perhaps the national mood will shift. It will be interesting to see who TM appoints as head of Brexit (possibly herself?) as that will give an indication on how committed the government is on following through.
Jul 13th 2016 | 2:05 am
#641
Listen to the Music
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,420
From: Fraser Valley BC
Re: EU Referendum
Probably not, but there's a certain symbolism to it. There's been quite a few politicians express caution on triggering Article 50 before we know what's on offer, and if the negotiated settlement is below expectation, perhaps the national mood will shift. It will be interesting to see who TM appoints as head of Brexit (possibly herself?) as that will give an indication on how committed the government is on following through.
She is a politician. In so far as the outcome of any course of action will show TM to be the saviour of the nation then this course will be considered with approval. It will be interesting to see if she can step out of the political straightjacket and choose courses of action that do not compare her favourably with Boudicca or Elizabeth I.
But s**t happens, as DC found to his cost and his bid to become saviour of the nation is still in the balance, his destiny is now tied to how TM fares in the near future.
Jul 13th 2016 | 3:25 am
#642
Oscar nominated
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 55,309
From: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Re: EU Referendum
Derision?
You posted
May has one of those opportunities that arise only once every decade or so. Others, eg Blair haven't made the most of theirs.
Novo gave a single line
What's-her-name Leadsom could have posted that. Can we do reality now?
Jul 13th 2016 | 4:18 am
#643
Listen to the Music
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,420
From: Fraser Valley BC
Jul 13th 2016 | 4:46 am
#644
Oscar nominated
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 55,309
From: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Jul 13th 2016 | 7:36 am
#645
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 18,800
From: Not in Paris
Re: EU Referendum
As I said a few days ago, to much derision, TM sees the opportunity and will be making a personal assessment of how to approach Brexit.
She is a politician. In so far as the outcome of any course of action will show TM to be the saviour of the nation then this course will be considered with approval. It will be interesting to see if she can step out of the political straightjacket and choose courses of action that do not compare her favourably with Boudicca or Elizabeth I.
But s**t happens, as DC found to his cost and his bid to become saviour of the nation is still in the balance, his destiny is now tied to how TM fares in the near future.
She is a politician. In so far as the outcome of any course of action will show TM to be the saviour of the nation then this course will be considered with approval. It will be interesting to see if she can step out of the political straightjacket and choose courses of action that do not compare her favourably with Boudicca or Elizabeth I.
But s**t happens, as DC found to his cost and his bid to become saviour of the nation is still in the balance, his destiny is now tied to how TM fares in the near future.
