Coronavirus

Old Aug 18th 2020, 8:38 pm
  #2506  
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Wuhan was locked down a lot harder then anywhere in the US or Canada, so I doubt we can expect the same results here.


But I wouldn't want to attend a large gathering, the spikes in BC are mostly linked to parties and such, probably also explains why 20-29 group is seeing the biggest increases in new cases, they are the most likely age range to be having big house parties.
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Old Aug 18th 2020, 8:40 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus

My son's 31 year old ex-girlfriend (of several years) has just posted videos and photos of herself and her friends partying at Tiny Beach in Ontario over the weekend - all 15 of them up close and personal, staying together in the same cottage, hanging off each other, laughing and drinking, cuddling and dancing - staying there for several days together... SIGH

As we have remained on good terms over the years I gently said "do take care.. as you're not social distancing.. stay safe " - Judging by her 'in your face' response, she has no concept or understanding of social distancing - or doesn't give a ****.
"thanks for your concern, the people in the videos and photos are part of my social circle"

What part of 'social distancing / social circle of 10' does she not get ..https://www.ontario.ca/page/create-s...SAAEgIDs_D_BwE

And people wonder why the age group with the most cases in Ontario are the 20-39 year olds.

(I thought she would be more cautious as her mother's partner recently recovered from cancer.. her mother has health concerns, her sister and one of her brothers have young children.. her father is elderly and his partner has underlying health conditions.. she has an extensive and extended family who all mix together regularly (including some in their 60's / 70's and older)... plus her new partner and his extended family - and everyone's friends) .


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Old Aug 18th 2020, 8:53 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
Wuhan was locked down a lot harder then anywhere in the US or Canada, so I doubt we can expect the same results here. .....
Exactly, and which proves the point that a harder lock-down would have led to a quicker rebound. ... In other words, the idiots who want a quicker and greater reopening, would have had that if they hadn't flouted the original lock-downs!
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Old Aug 18th 2020, 9:46 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
OK, so you didn't read the article, or glossed over the bits you don't want to acknowldge.


Even some Chinese are apparently shocked/ confused by the decision

In short, only some people, including apparently you, think that this event in Wuhan, was in the least bit sensible. This event wasn't a sign of "hope", it was an act of crass stupidty!
Well I am extremely glad you are not involved in making any decisions that restrict peoples movement. Don't get me wrong, I am all about social distancing and wearing a mask, but there comes a time when after a month of no new cases you need to start slowly opening up again.

Do you honestly believe that Wuhan officials would allow a water park to open in the middle of a pandemic if they believed it would start another wave. I'd be more worried about drunk people drowning than catching COVID.

Look at these 6,000 lucky bastards in NZ attending a concert back in July https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertain...ectid=12345509 before you say anything, this was early July and not last week when the 12 new cases reappeared in Auckland.

I don't know where you live, but how long are you willing to stay locked up indoors for after zero new cases in your community? a week, a month, 6 months, a year?





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Old Aug 18th 2020, 10:15 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Danny B View Post
Well I am extremely glad you are not involved in making any decisions that restrict peoples movement.
Well, as we now all know, there is no country in the West that can enfirce much of a lock down compared to what the Chinese were able to do, and on balance, overall, that is probably a good thing.
Don't get me wrong, I am all about social distancing and wearing a mask,
No you're not, we had this discussion before! Do you need me to go and find what you posted previously and remind you, again?
but there comes a time when after a month of no new cases you need to start slowly opening up again.

Do you honestly believe that Wuhan officials would allow a water park to open in the middle of a pandemic if they believed it would start another wave. ....
I don't ascribe any more intelligence and common sense to Chinese "officials" than I do to the idiots in local, regional, and national governments in the West.

Ditto business leaders, Chinese v everywhere else, who will do what ever they think they can get away with to start making some money again after they have been forced to stay closed for several months.
.....Look at these 6,000 lucky bastards in NZ attending a concert back in July https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertain...ectid=12345509 before you say anything, this was early July and not last week when the 12 new cases reappeared in Auckland.

I don't know where you live, but how long are you willing to stay locked up indoors for after zero new cases in your community? a week, a month, 6 months, a year?
(i) There aren't zero new cases today, never mind even "this week" where you live, or where I live .... nor in China for that matter, and when there are at least some planes operating around the globe, and coronavirus can cause an infection and be comunicable, without any immediate symptoms, I believe that some degree of caution is sensible, at least in the context of events drawing thousands of people into close proximity.

As I have told you previously, it was probably only in February that a single person entered your province carrying the virus, at a time when the number of carriers/vectors outside of China was probably nunbered in no more than low thousands globally, and that has spiralled out of control to give us the situation we are now in the midst of, so I am mystified as to why you now think that only having new daily infections in your province measured in dozens is a cause for celebration and to release most of the restrictions.

(ii) It depends how you define community - it takes less than 12 hours to drive to form Florida and there are no restrictions on doing so. I am not sure how much Canadian provinces restrict road traffic between provinces.

(iii) I didn't say anything about keeping people "locked up" so please stop putting words in my mouth, but there is a lot of open ground between "locked up in doors" and "15,000 people in a crowded water park without masks".

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Old Aug 18th 2020, 10:42 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus

More exposures on flights, I had no idea Air India was even operating flights into Vancouver these days, maybe repatriation flights?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...uver-1.5690497
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Old Aug 18th 2020, 10:54 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Covid 19 on flights - https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...html#wb-auto-6
(updated daily)
Domestic flight (within Canada) - 28 flights since 4th August - Last updated: August 18, 2020, 4:30 p.m.
International flight - 34 flights since 4th August - Last updated: August 18, 2020, 4:30 p.m.
~~~~~~~~~
Train - 1 train - Last updated: August 17, 2020, 1:40 p.m. EDT

Westjet list their impacted flights on their blog: https://blog.westjet.com/operational...irus-covid-19/

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Old Aug 18th 2020, 10:59 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
More exposures on flights, I had no idea Air India was even operating flights into Vancouver these days, maybe repatriation flights?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...uver-1.5690497
Yes same as Pearson and Montreal.
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Old Aug 18th 2020, 11:06 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 View Post
More exposures on flights, I had no idea Air India was even operating flights into Vancouver these days, maybe repatriation flights?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...uver-1.5690497
On another forum I lurk but don't post on. it seems there are 100's if not thousands of people booking flights to Canada daily from India, tickets sell out in minutes, they are also trying to transit through Germany - some with some plain naughty suggestions around circumventing rules.

Some of it seems to be repatriation, others its those that have soft landed, and a large portion also seem to be just flying willy nilly via dual citizenship/ being a landed PR, to see family and friends.
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Old Aug 18th 2020, 11:19 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Stumpylegs View Post
.... just flying willy nilly via dual citizenship/ being a landed PR, to see family and friends.
Yeah, there does appear to be a problem, that with dual/ multiple citizenships, there does not appear to be any practical limit as to how often you can repatriate. ....
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Old Aug 18th 2020, 11:30 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post


(i) There aren't zero new cases today, never mind even "this week" where you live, or where I live .... nor in China for that matter, and when there are at least some planes operating around the globe, and coronavirus can cause an infection and be comunicable, without any immediate symptoms, I believe that some degree of caution is sensible, at least in the context of events drawing thousands of people into close proximity.
Its whether such events cause any sort of spike in cases - Riots, protests and 85% of Britain crammed onto 1 beach didn't seem to do anything, it was all outdoors, absent of social distancing, with minimal mask wearing and little to no hand washing facilities.

Not saying we should start holding music festivals this weekend, but does make me think whether we should allow more outside social gatherings at the expense of indoor ones (sports fans back in stadiums at 50% capacity, but no sport shown in pubs/bars)

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post

(iii) I didn't say anything about keeping people "locked up" so please stop putting words in my mouth, but there is a lot of open ground between "locked up in doors" and "15,000 people in a crowded water park without masks".
There is, but if such an event can be held without a spike in cases, does it mean we can move further along the line from locked up in doors to water park festival? (which would surely be a breeding ground for diseases, viruses, STD's etc even back in precedented times.)

Currently most of the world seems to be treading water with cases with their own version of an "acceptable" infection rate not willing to let it grow, but not willing to lock down and drive it down, but how long we can maintain such an approach is questionable - till we get a vaccine? till winter comes and we get a surge in cases? For me without some sort of herd immunity/herd exposure or a vaccine, everything is risky - I'm pretty cautious about the whole thing, but then I'm lucky in as much as I have a job, a secondary income, a holiday property, all of which are relatively unaffected by COVID (unlike my PR application!) but know of people who have had to put back retirement 2 years, someone else looking at remortgaging their home to keep afloat etc, countless people who have lost their jobs etc. a close friend is that depressed from the situation I can honestly say he's in a worse condition mentally than when he lost a parent as effectively his support network has disappeared (socialising in pubs, football with the lads and socialising in and after work). I can completely see why people are fed up of the situation and want things to return closer to normal, especially for those who haven't lost anyone to it.

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Old Aug 18th 2020, 11:45 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Stumpylegs View Post
Its whether such events cause any sort of spike in cases - Riots, protests and 85% of Britain crammed onto 1 beach didn't seem to do anything, it was all outdoors, absent of social distancing, with minimal mask wearing and little to no hand washing facilities. ...
Well that's certainly interesting information, if true, and it adds to what we know about the risk of being infected, but I suspect that sitting, more or less still, for 2+ hours in a stadium is not as low a risk as sitting on a beach for half a day or more, becuase [1] a beach is largely open (no perimater walls), so ventilation is better, and [2] even on a crowded beach people are a lot further apart than in stadium seating so you're not sharing breathing air with others to anything like the same extent. Same for riots and protests - people were moving around, not typically jammed next to people, sharing static air for hours at a time.
....Not saying we should start holding music festivals this weekend, but does make me think whether we should allow more outside social gatherings at the expense of indoor ones (sports fans back in stadiums at 50% capacity, but no sport shown in pubs/bars) ....
A fair point, but there are several aspects to risk - not just [1] the ease with which the disease can be transmitted but [2] the probability of someone being there, and [3] the number of people that could be infected. And both 2 and 3 will increase based on the size of the crowd - the bigger the crowd, the greater the chance of at least one of them being already infected when they arrive, and the more people at the event, the greater the number of people at risk of being infected. Maybe we can get to a time when we're OK with large crowds in relatively confined spaces, such as a sports stadium, but that might be too big of a leap to make from where we are at the moment?
.... There is, but if such an event can be held without a spike in cases, does it mean we can move further along the line from locked up in doors to water park festival? ......
Yes, we are moving that way, though I suspect that the end of summer, with people spending more time indoors will lead to a new wave of infections, will delay that move until spring 2021, unless more people can be persuaded to wear their masks, properly.

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Old Aug 19th 2020, 5:04 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus

775 active cases now in BC, a new high, apparently we have not had this many active cases at one time since this pandemic started. Using the graph in the article looks like 717 active cases was the highest we had gotten previously back in April.

At least hospitalizations are very low, guess the 20-29 age group being the primary ones affected currently is keeping the hospitalizations low.


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Old Aug 19th 2020, 5:36 am
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Pulaski View Post
Well, as we now all know, there is no country in the West that can enfirce much of a lock down compared to what the Chinese were able to do, and on balance, overall, that is probably a good thing.

No you're not, we had this discussion before! Do you need me to go and find what you posted previously and remind you, again?

I admit that at one point I did not think it was worth me wearing a mask here in small town Kamloops, BC. Cases were too low at the time. Now that cases are higher (still very low in my opinion) I do wear a mask. In fact my Wife tells me that I am like an ex smoker who bitches about cigarette smoke from smokers. I mutter under my mask when I see people inside enclosed spaces without one.

I don't ascribe any more intelligence and common sense to Chinese "officials" than I do to the idiots in local, regional, and national governments in the West.

Not sure what that means. They learned a very hard lesson about keeping things hush in January, they will not make that mistake ever again.

Ditto business leaders, Chinese v everywhere else, who will do what ever they think they can get away with to start making some money again after they have been forced to stay closed for several months.

(i) There aren't zero new cases today, never mind even "this week" where you live, or where I live .... nor in China for that matter, and when there are at least some planes operating around the globe, and coronavirus can cause an infection and be comunicable, without any immediate symptoms, I believe that some degree of caution is sensible, at least in the context of events drawing thousands of people into close proximity.

I'm not talking about zero cases throughout entire countries (although NZ do hold the record for that) I'm talking about zero new cases in Wuhan as the BBC/CNN and all other news agencies reported it today.

As I have told you previously, it was probably only in February that a single person entered your province carrying the virus, at a time when the number of carriers/vectors outside of China was probably nunbered in no more than low thousands globally, and that has spiralled out of control to give us the situation we are now in the midst of, so I am mystified as to why you now think that only having new daily infections in your province measured in dozens is a cause for celebration and to release most of the restrictions.

You and I will never agree on this. The media will be reporting daily new cases for the next several years, I'm not as worried by that number as I am by the hospitalization and admitted to ICU numbers The young and healthy will continue to get COVID by the 1000's, for the vast majority, not a big deal, they feel like crap and recover.
Don't forget that 60m people in the USA were infected with H1N1. Don't be surprised to see millions of COVID infections over the years.


(ii) It depends how you define community - it takes less than 12 hours to drive to form Florida and there are no restrictions on doing so. I am not sure how much Canadian provinces restrict road traffic between provinces.
Well say for example your city was COVID free for 30 days and the city was offering a free BBQ in the local park to celebrate, 3,000 people expected to attend. If you were a healthy bloke in your 20's, would you attend or would you hide in your basement?

(iii) I didn't say anything about keeping people "locked up" so please stop putting words in my mouth, but there is a lot of open ground between "locked up in doors" and "15,000 people in a crowded water park without masks".

I'll admit that this really depends on where you live. I think the UK has the right idea. When things flare up and new hotspots are discovered, they go back to lockdown. Leicester is a good example. You can't put a whole county, province or state back into lockdown because of a flare up in another part of the country.

It pisses me off when dick heads in Vancouver are catching COVID from partying, the media reports these huge numbers, people shit their pants and think the world is ending without realizing that no one is dying, and then small communities miles away have to suffer the consequences as the enforcement action is province wide.
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Old Aug 19th 2020, 1:28 pm
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Default Re: Coronavirus

Originally Posted by Siouxie View Post
My son's 31 year old ex-girlfriend (of several years) has just posted videos and photos of herself and her friends partying at Tiny Beach in Ontario over the weekend - all 15 of them up close and personal, staying together in the same cottage, hanging off each other, laughing and drinking, cuddling and dancing - staying there for several days together... SIGH

As we have remained on good terms over the years I gently said "do take care.. as you're not social distancing.. stay safe " - Judging by her 'in your face' response, she has no concept or understanding of social distancing - or doesn't give a ****.
"thanks for your concern, the people in the videos and photos are part of my social circle"

What part of 'social distancing / social circle of 10' does she not get ..https://www.ontario.ca/page/create-s...SAAEgIDs_D_BwE

And people wonder why the age group with the most cases in Ontario are the 20-39 year olds.

(I thought she would be more cautious as her mother's partner recently recovered from cancer.. her mother has health concerns, her sister and one of her brothers have young children.. her father is elderly and his partner has underlying health conditions.. she has an extensive and extended family who all mix together regularly (including some in their 60's / 70's and older)... plus her new partner and his extended family - and everyone's friends) .

No offence but why can't you just live and let live? Clearly you have no physical contact with this person so just let it be? I would probably respond similarly if someone questioned me being at a cottage with friends. Sorry that other people have a different risk tolerance level then you do.
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