GOA - Buyer Beware!
Jul 6th 2008, 1:33 pm
#1501
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Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
...the amendment carried out by the Goa assembly to the Registration Act, 1908, ... has been reserved by the Governor of Goa for the consideration of the President of India.
AndyD 8-)#
Jul 8th 2008, 11:31 am
#1503
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 473
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Are there any reasons why the President won't sign the Amendment? Our Consulate has put negligible and ineffectual pressure on India, simply saying they would take seriously any confiscation of legally purchased property through retrospective legislation.
We only know this since it was reported in the Goa/Indian press. I am not aware of any direct announcement to this effect from the British High Commission, or of any other meaningful diplomatic pressure being placed on the Indian Government to rethink their stance regards British citizens who believe in good faith that they have legally bought property in Goa, many of them having been deliberately misinformed and cheated by unscrupulous builders, agents, advocates, accountants, etc.
Remember, Keith Vaz advised pressure should be brought about to raise this matter at a diplomatic level, and that seemed fairly good advice to me bearing in mind that the UK appears to appease every displeasure of Anglo Indians and Indians wishing to work, study or reside in the UK.
Even an alleged shortage of low skilled kitchen workers in Indian restaurants, purportedly because of over stringent visa controls is represented as a British national crisis. Where was the diplomatic support for the hundreds of hard working Brits who, against every obstacle and all methods of corruption and cheating that has been given them by Indians and Goans, have struggled to legitimately operate bars and restaurants in Goa over the years? Many have sacrificed life savings, personal health and family relationships.
This is a multi million pound property theft being perpetrated against British citizens.
It is not about the cultural purity of Goa or Goan culture. If that were the case, then why build an economy based mainly on the hoped and prayed for (and they do pray for it) annual arrival of thousands of British folk with their foreign exchange?
The real battle for Goan identity is shaping up at an alarming rate in the slums populated by out of State economic migrants who are no longer going home once they have done Goa's dirty work. They already tenant and illegally extend any new Housing Board property that was purposefully built for Goans to occupy; at 50 square metres, the Goans shun these new accomadations as inadequate and sublet them to an extent that an already inadequate infrastructure is overwhelmed.
These shanty "townships" are fast becoming Bombay style slums with all the negative consequences for health, crime and communal politics. Margao is presently just about being held under boiling point as fundamentalist factions from both RSS inspired Hindus, and increasingly aggressive Muslims are evidently preparing themselves for armed clashes. There have been ten "incidents" in the last two weeks, a cache of swords has been found ("for self defense"), and there was a lathi charge to control the combatants at Margao's Gandhi Market two weeks ago. Friday - Muslim prayer day - seems to be a flashpoint.
Moti Dongor, an almost 100% Muslim populated slum in Goa Chief Minister, Digambar Kamat's constituency has long been thought a "no go area" for the police and authorities. The population, their identities, their antecedants and their movements in the State are almost impossible to monitor. However, Moti Dongor is a valuable vote bank for Mr Kamat (as are other such slums for other politicians) who could be said to have encouraged its expansion by providing water tap facilities (no doubt, in return for votes).
In many instances it is the very same politicians who are shouting loudest about the dissolution of Goan identity who are actively encouraging its degradation by their electoral dependance on a class of economically impoverished migrants with disparate cultural and religious values, none of which correspond to the traditional Indo-European cultural masala of the indigenous Goan.
This is the rock on which Goa will perish. That, and the many environmental issues that relate to mining, urbanisation and tourism. And not the issue of "legitimate" or "illegitimate" ownership of less than 500 properties paid for by mainly British citizens, the confiscation of which will do absolutely nothing to better the environment, infrastructure, culture or well being of Goa.
The British High Commission is proving very lax or very fearful of speaking out in defence of its citizens who are under great threat and stress in Goa. On the contrary, the Russian Consulate is vociferous in its complaint and displeasure at any ill treatment of its citizens in Goa, even warning against overcharging and cheating by taxi drivers, shops and guest houses; long, a fact of life which we have individually tolerated, and raged against.
Considering, British tourists still account for around 45% of foreign arrivals (and have been coming to Goa since pig toilets and "rice plate is ready") while relative newcomers to Goa, the Russians account for around 25% of arrivals, you would anticipate that any diplomatic complaint from our Consulate would be taken seriously at a political level. They certainly seem to be taking the Russians seriously, and the Russians have the good sense to allow the press free accesss to report on the contents of their consular letters, meetings and grievances.
Meanwhile, Raiyha Sahba MP (Congress), Shantaram Naik is manouvreing at New Delhi to formulate the Goa Amendment to the Registration Act, 1908 and gain the President's signature by dressing it up as some kind of progressive legislation to speed up the registration process through computerisation. I interpret this as a cynical ploy to disguise the true intent which is to introduce legislation that will retrospectively disallow foreign nationals from legal ownership of their properties.
At present the Amendment is only an unstructured Bill, approved by a majority at the Goa Assembly, and in the hands of the Governor; the full powers and limitations of the Bill are unclear. However, deeming "registration of certain documents to be opposed to public policy" and empowering Registrars to refuse registration (though presently illegal, without giving written reason for refusal) if made an Act pretty much adds up to "Goodbye and good luck, Goa!" Will the last foreigner to leave please turn out the light? Oh sorry, it's already off; there's a power cut.
We only know this since it was reported in the Goa/Indian press. I am not aware of any direct announcement to this effect from the British High Commission, or of any other meaningful diplomatic pressure being placed on the Indian Government to rethink their stance regards British citizens who believe in good faith that they have legally bought property in Goa, many of them having been deliberately misinformed and cheated by unscrupulous builders, agents, advocates, accountants, etc.
Remember, Keith Vaz advised pressure should be brought about to raise this matter at a diplomatic level, and that seemed fairly good advice to me bearing in mind that the UK appears to appease every displeasure of Anglo Indians and Indians wishing to work, study or reside in the UK.
Even an alleged shortage of low skilled kitchen workers in Indian restaurants, purportedly because of over stringent visa controls is represented as a British national crisis. Where was the diplomatic support for the hundreds of hard working Brits who, against every obstacle and all methods of corruption and cheating that has been given them by Indians and Goans, have struggled to legitimately operate bars and restaurants in Goa over the years? Many have sacrificed life savings, personal health and family relationships.
This is a multi million pound property theft being perpetrated against British citizens.
It is not about the cultural purity of Goa or Goan culture. If that were the case, then why build an economy based mainly on the hoped and prayed for (and they do pray for it) annual arrival of thousands of British folk with their foreign exchange?
The real battle for Goan identity is shaping up at an alarming rate in the slums populated by out of State economic migrants who are no longer going home once they have done Goa's dirty work. They already tenant and illegally extend any new Housing Board property that was purposefully built for Goans to occupy; at 50 square metres, the Goans shun these new accomadations as inadequate and sublet them to an extent that an already inadequate infrastructure is overwhelmed.
These shanty "townships" are fast becoming Bombay style slums with all the negative consequences for health, crime and communal politics. Margao is presently just about being held under boiling point as fundamentalist factions from both RSS inspired Hindus, and increasingly aggressive Muslims are evidently preparing themselves for armed clashes. There have been ten "incidents" in the last two weeks, a cache of swords has been found ("for self defense"), and there was a lathi charge to control the combatants at Margao's Gandhi Market two weeks ago. Friday - Muslim prayer day - seems to be a flashpoint.
Moti Dongor, an almost 100% Muslim populated slum in Goa Chief Minister, Digambar Kamat's constituency has long been thought a "no go area" for the police and authorities. The population, their identities, their antecedants and their movements in the State are almost impossible to monitor. However, Moti Dongor is a valuable vote bank for Mr Kamat (as are other such slums for other politicians) who could be said to have encouraged its expansion by providing water tap facilities (no doubt, in return for votes).
In many instances it is the very same politicians who are shouting loudest about the dissolution of Goan identity who are actively encouraging its degradation by their electoral dependance on a class of economically impoverished migrants with disparate cultural and religious values, none of which correspond to the traditional Indo-European cultural masala of the indigenous Goan.
This is the rock on which Goa will perish. That, and the many environmental issues that relate to mining, urbanisation and tourism. And not the issue of "legitimate" or "illegitimate" ownership of less than 500 properties paid for by mainly British citizens, the confiscation of which will do absolutely nothing to better the environment, infrastructure, culture or well being of Goa.
The British High Commission is proving very lax or very fearful of speaking out in defence of its citizens who are under great threat and stress in Goa. On the contrary, the Russian Consulate is vociferous in its complaint and displeasure at any ill treatment of its citizens in Goa, even warning against overcharging and cheating by taxi drivers, shops and guest houses; long, a fact of life which we have individually tolerated, and raged against.
Considering, British tourists still account for around 45% of foreign arrivals (and have been coming to Goa since pig toilets and "rice plate is ready") while relative newcomers to Goa, the Russians account for around 25% of arrivals, you would anticipate that any diplomatic complaint from our Consulate would be taken seriously at a political level. They certainly seem to be taking the Russians seriously, and the Russians have the good sense to allow the press free accesss to report on the contents of their consular letters, meetings and grievances.
Meanwhile, Raiyha Sahba MP (Congress), Shantaram Naik is manouvreing at New Delhi to formulate the Goa Amendment to the Registration Act, 1908 and gain the President's signature by dressing it up as some kind of progressive legislation to speed up the registration process through computerisation. I interpret this as a cynical ploy to disguise the true intent which is to introduce legislation that will retrospectively disallow foreign nationals from legal ownership of their properties.
At present the Amendment is only an unstructured Bill, approved by a majority at the Goa Assembly, and in the hands of the Governor; the full powers and limitations of the Bill are unclear. However, deeming "registration of certain documents to be opposed to public policy" and empowering Registrars to refuse registration (though presently illegal, without giving written reason for refusal) if made an Act pretty much adds up to "Goodbye and good luck, Goa!" Will the last foreigner to leave please turn out the light? Oh sorry, it's already off; there's a power cut.
Jul 8th 2008, 2:00 pm
#1504
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,941
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Well said babu1!
As to "Are there any reasons why the President won't sign the Amendment?" - Registration (and Transfer of property) is on 'List 2' of the Constitition (matters covered by both States and the Union). The Constitution is clear that any law which conflicts with a Union law is void (I do not know whether Presidential assent overides this - does anyone know?)
If the Amendment in its general form is approved, then what happens if a Notification is issued that "deeds shall not be registered for foreigners"?
To take a simple case, a PIO is a foreigner; FEMA (a Union law) says very clearly that PIO's can purchase property, but this would be blocked by the Notification.
It is because such complex constitutional anomalies would arise that I think the President is unlikely to sign the Amendment.
AndyD 8-)#
As to "Are there any reasons why the President won't sign the Amendment?" - Registration (and Transfer of property) is on 'List 2' of the Constitition (matters covered by both States and the Union). The Constitution is clear that any law which conflicts with a Union law is void (I do not know whether Presidential assent overides this - does anyone know?)
If the Amendment in its general form is approved, then what happens if a Notification is issued that "deeds shall not be registered for foreigners"?
To take a simple case, a PIO is a foreigner; FEMA (a Union law) says very clearly that PIO's can purchase property, but this would be blocked by the Notification.
It is because such complex constitutional anomalies would arise that I think the President is unlikely to sign the Amendment.
AndyD 8-)#
Last edited by a_f_d; Jul 8th 2008 at 2:02 pm. Reason: clarification
Jul 8th 2008, 5:30 pm
#1505
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 670
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Hi All,
Another "GEM" from Babu 1 (Thanks
)
An open question to you Babu 1, would you mind if any of your brilliant piece can be quoted and used for more media attention ?
Please PM me if preferred.
K-C
Another "GEM" from Babu 1 (Thanks
)An open question to you Babu 1, would you mind if any of your brilliant piece can be quoted and used for more media attention ?
Please PM me if preferred.
K-C
Jul 8th 2008, 5:37 pm
#1506
Joined: May 2007
Location: Noni the Indian Goan Beach Mulberry
Posts: 8,227
Jul 8th 2008, 6:52 pm
#1507
Forum Regular
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 177
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Babu,
Well said and well researched. I agree 100% with your comments.
I find it disheartening that as you say the British Consular approach is simply one of laissez-faire. Good to see the Russian Consul taking a proactive approach. We seem to be bogged down with an outdated philosophy of non-involvement until disaster looms. It's a case of too little, too late. We need a proactive approach from our Consulate. It does not have to get involved in individual cases which I agree might go beyond the bounds of its responsibility. But it could surely come up with a more streetwise approach. Perhaps give an interview to the media, write a letter to the press when there have been some racist and discriminatory comments made about the British, do some PR on behalf of us, British ex pats ( or would that be too much to hope for?)
Well said and well researched. I agree 100% with your comments.
I find it disheartening that as you say the British Consular approach is simply one of laissez-faire. Good to see the Russian Consul taking a proactive approach. We seem to be bogged down with an outdated philosophy of non-involvement until disaster looms. It's a case of too little, too late. We need a proactive approach from our Consulate. It does not have to get involved in individual cases which I agree might go beyond the bounds of its responsibility. But it could surely come up with a more streetwise approach. Perhaps give an interview to the media, write a letter to the press when there have been some racist and discriminatory comments made about the British, do some PR on behalf of us, British ex pats ( or would that be too much to hope for?)
Jul 8th 2008, 9:28 pm
#1508
A little honey
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: In the beehive
Posts: 443
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Babu,
Well said and well researched. I agree 100% with your comments.
I find it disheartening that as you say the British Consular approach is simply one of laissez-faire. Good to see the Russian Consul taking a proactive approach. We seem to be bogged down with an outdated philosophy of non-involvement until disaster looms. It's a case of too little, too late. We need a proactive approach from our Consulate. It does not have to get involved in individual cases which I agree might go beyond the bounds of its responsibility. But it could surely come up with a more streetwise approach. Perhaps give an interview to the media, write a letter to the press when there have been some racist and discriminatory comments made about the British, do some PR on behalf of us, British ex pats ( or would that be too much to hope for?)
Well said and well researched. I agree 100% with your comments.
I find it disheartening that as you say the British Consular approach is simply one of laissez-faire. Good to see the Russian Consul taking a proactive approach. We seem to be bogged down with an outdated philosophy of non-involvement until disaster looms. It's a case of too little, too late. We need a proactive approach from our Consulate. It does not have to get involved in individual cases which I agree might go beyond the bounds of its responsibility. But it could surely come up with a more streetwise approach. Perhaps give an interview to the media, write a letter to the press when there have been some racist and discriminatory comments made about the British, do some PR on behalf of us, British ex pats ( or would that be too much to hope for?)
There is a programme on Radio 4 (a follow up from another Radio 4 programme last month) on the 18th July at 12.30 "Face the Facts" with John Waite which is an investigative consumer programme. The Subject is
"British purchasers in Goa fear they may loose their homes in the backlash against foreign investors" If you miss the programme you will be able to listen to it again on Radio 4 on the internet.
All the people who are in trouble and care about Goa, have written to their MP's etc.(not much success) added their names to the petition to the
Government, on the No.10 Downing Street site but (UK Government does not care about us - not like Russia)
It really seems that we are knocking our heads against a brick wall - we have done nothing wrong - but our Government will not help us.
Babu is an inspiration to us all. Wish I had his way with words. He should be our leader, he is truthful and says it as it is, in the correct manner. We have all been proactive, (with respect) you try it, with MP's Government etc. it does not get us far. UK does not want to know. They would rather give help to India nationals in this country, welcome them, let them use our resources and hospitality, than help their own people, who through no fault of their own have purchased in Goa, with the help of iNDIAN Estate Agents, Developers and
Indian Advocates and now find themselves in such a mess, and possibly loose all their "retirement funds". How fair is this. We ask nothing from the Indian Government just put money into their economy - this does not happen here.
If we are not wanted, let us sell and "GO IN PEACE" REPATRIATE OUR INVESTMENT AND LIVE WHAT IS LEFT OF OUR LIVES IN PEACE AND TRANQUILITY.
Last edited by Honey Bee; Jul 8th 2008 at 9:32 pm.
Jul 9th 2008, 6:59 am
#1509
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Posts: 670
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Responses to petitions are draw up by Government departments and depending on the issue, this can sometimes take time. We are therefore unable to specify timings, but we hope to have a response to you and the other signatories as soon as possible.
Regards
Downing Street Webteam
********************
May I suggest to ALL that the 2 articles in the Goan voice ref Russia's response and the Radio4 ( and any other strongly written articles) are copied/pasted and sent to Miliband and all, as this government is weak and appear to be on the way out
, therefore perhaps it maybe a good time to pressure them again ? They won't like the fact the media attention is gathering attention either !:curse:PS The F.O stance is that its difficult to interfere with another countries politics... HMM tell that to IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN !
:curse:K-C
Jul 9th 2008, 12:40 pm
#1510
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Location: Goa/UK
Posts: 589
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Quote
Responses to petitions are draw up by Government departments and depending on the issue, this can sometimes take time. We are therefore unable to specify timings, but we hope to have a response to you and the other signatories as soon as possible.
Regards
Downing Street Webteam
********************
May I suggest to ALL that the 2 articles in the Goan voice ref Russia's response and the Radio4 ( and any other strongly written articles) are copied/pasted and sent to Miliband and all, as this government is weak and appear to be on the way out, therefore perhaps it maybe a good time to pressure them again ? They won't like the fact the media attention is gathering attention either !:curse:
PS The F.O stance is that its difficult to interfere with another countries politics... HMM tell that to IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN !:curse:
K-C
Responses to petitions are draw up by Government departments and depending on the issue, this can sometimes take time. We are therefore unable to specify timings, but we hope to have a response to you and the other signatories as soon as possible.
Regards
Downing Street Webteam
********************
May I suggest to ALL that the 2 articles in the Goan voice ref Russia's response and the Radio4 ( and any other strongly written articles) are copied/pasted and sent to Miliband and all, as this government is weak and appear to be on the way out
, therefore perhaps it maybe a good time to pressure them again ? They won't like the fact the media attention is gathering attention either !:curse:PS The F.O stance is that its difficult to interfere with another countries politics... HMM tell that to IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN !
:curse:K-C
as the slogo says JUST DO IT.
Jul 10th 2008, 5:11 am
#1511
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: goa
Posts: 137
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Dear Sir
I'm emailing a request to you, do you remember us? we are the English in Goa, having our legally bought housing threatened to be taken from us, and are being denied visa and visa extensions, for no reason, my friends have children in school in Goa and the Goa government will not even extended thier legally extendable student visa.
if all this was happening in England to the Indians they would be marching in the streets shouting racism until as usual you the government would give in to them,
over here in Goa, if we stand up and be counted they revoke our visas,
can you not tell me why all other consulates and governments stands up for there citizens, but "England do not interfere in other countries policies" is the only answer we all get, Well if this is true why do you allow India to interfere in our policies and hand them everything they require visa wise :- cancelling the thousand pound deposit for them, allowing student to work 2 years now. why don't you give them our houses too! I forgot you already have!!!!
please read below the letter written to the cm of Goa and the newspapers, finally a real government!!!!!!! who puts its own nation before all others,
copied from times of India.
I pasted here the russian consulate letter
this is not just the russians the english every day are racicially and sexually abused!!!! do something b4 you get another scarlett keeling case!!!!
even bbc radio is trying to help us see below!!!!
I pasted here the bbc radio link
i know after reading this you will probably go about your work and forgot us all again or even entertain politicians as a few months back with Churchill alemeno (the guy that wanted us all to go back to the uk, even though there is millions of indians and 40,000 goans in the uk hypercritical or what)
thank you for your time if you bothered to read this at all!!!
ps even if you dont intervene in the property crisis, surely as a country who gives visa away! you can help with the crisis in the visa department, or even put out an advisory against goa being safe and not buying properties or trusting any goan from begger to politition
or are we no longer GREAT BRITIAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RULE BRITAINNA, BRITIAN NEVER NEVER SHALL BE SLAVES, (OR IS IT TO LATE)
:curse::curse::curse::curse::curse::curse::curse:: curse:
Last edited by mywaygoa; Jul 10th 2008 at 5:13 am.
Jul 10th 2008, 6:15 am
#1512
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Posts: 670
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
Well done mywaygoa
Written with some fire
from the heart &belly !
I hope the "lets do nothing" brigade follow suit and anyone who reads it from other threads contribute as well ( especially those who have had dealings with the shyster C.G) This particular thread had lots of "traffic" reading it yesterday so here's hoping.
Be prepared though for those amongst us to criticize you though for not crossing your T's and dotting the I's, ( from experience:curse
but its far better to try, than do nothing at all
K-C
Written with some fire
from the heart &belly !I hope the "lets do nothing" brigade follow suit and anyone who reads it from other threads contribute as well ( especially those who have had dealings with the shyster C.G) This particular thread had lots of "traffic" reading it yesterday so here's hoping.
Be prepared though for those amongst us to criticize you though for not crossing your T's and dotting the I's, ( from experience:curse
but its far better to try, than do nothing at allK-C
Jul 10th 2008, 11:53 am
#1513
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Location: Irvine, North Ayrshire Scotland
Posts: 725
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
well done, well done, well done again my letters are on their way and i will keep sending letters and emails until someone in the UK stands up for us, Vaz bit criticial this morning in goan voice, but hey he dosent live here and "tries" to get back once a year to his native land bless!!!!!!!
Jul 10th 2008, 7:33 pm
#1514
A little honey
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: In the beehive
Posts: 443
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!
well done, well done, well done again my letters are on their way and i will keep sending letters and emails until someone in the UK stands up for us, Vaz bit criticial this morning in goan voice, but hey he dosent live here and "tries" to get back once a year to his native land bless!!!!!!!
:curse::curse: Has anybody had the common courtesty of a reply from Milliband, even an "out of the office one"!!.
Jul 10th 2008, 9:35 pm
#1515
Forum Regular
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 266
Re: GOA - Buyer Beware!